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Solarisation: is it a set-up thing?

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs' started by Sulis, Nov 15, 2004.

  1. Sulis

    Sulis
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    Hi - after having narrowed down my plasma choices to Panasonic or Pioneer, I have been using the Eyeball Test. In all of the setups I've seen so far (admittedly not always in the optimum stores ie. Currys) the base Poineers have shown much more solarisation with exactly the same source material (Sky or shop feed) than the Panasonics.

    I haven't yet seen the MXE, which has been often praised here by Those Who Ought To Know (the retailers), and the Panasonics have all been Vieras. I assume the Panny monitors are the same (in fact, aren't the 7 series supposed to have more levels - should be even less banding?).

    Have I just been looking at badly set-up Pioneers, or has anyone else noticed this?

    (PS: This solarisation is not huge - my wife probably wouldn't notice it. But I do.)

    (PPS: The other thing I've noticed is that all LCD TVs are rubbish unless you're about 20 foot away. Unless it's a still image. They really should show them in different rooms. It's bizarre to watch people being sold an LCD TV while their expression clearly reads: 'But the picture's crap... maybe my eyes are wrong...')
     
  2. MAW

    MAW
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    LCD's in Currys.... :rotfl: . Solarisation is partly setup, parly source, partly the plasma. I find it's more obvious on panasonics usually, and absent on Panasonic hi def screens and MXE1's. The FDE pioneers in Currys maybe have a worse problem than other Pios, I have no experience of them, and don't intend to. I am in the happy position of being able to tell my customers what to buy, so I can make the whole setup work as expected, rather than pratting about with a bunch of unrelated stuff. No, you cynics, not so I can rip them off, but so the goddam stuff works!
     
  3. Sulis

    Sulis
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    I thought the Curry's reference might draw some friendly fire... :blush: though to be fair to me I did look in other places (JL, Moss of Bath, Paul Green - there's not a lot of choice round here).

    Interesting that it's more a Panny thing in your experience - have you seen any difference between the 6 and 7 series? (I don't think I'll be going HD just yet)... There still seems to be some confusion whether the UK panels have upgraded specs or not...
     
  4. ianh64

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    I just saw a professionally installed and calibrated Pioneer 434 today via Sky+. When I got home today and watched Freeview on my 32" Loewe Xelos LCD today, I kept thinking how much better my picture was over the Pioneer. And both were calibrated using comparible techniques, DVE on the LCD, AVIA on the Pioneer. LCDs have advanced a great deal recently and, IMO, differences between the two technologies are simply down to personal preference and budget.

    -Ian
     
  5. njr

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    I spoke to someone who has a 7 series SD screen and he said that solarisation is still visible, and no better than in the previous models.
     
  6. Sulis

    Sulis
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    Well, it just goes to show how important set-up is, because all the LCDs I've ever seen have looked crap with SKY, even the Loewe - that had so much processing going on to hide the artifacts that news presenters looked airbrushed and doll-like. YMMV.
     
  7. JensH

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    Solarisation does seem to be a problem associated with many plasma's, especially the older variants. It is disappointing to hear though, that even Panasonic has not solved the problem on the SD versions.

    I have had quite a lot of problems due to solarisation. I bought a Pioneer 503MXE 3 years ago. I guess I was partly misled by the fact, that it has 10-bit processing and around 900 greyscale levels. They forgot to mention, that this is not the case, when using video input! When video is input, it will be converted to a 100Hz signal internally. Unfortunately, the display cannot show the colours correctly when things are moving on screen. With static images everything seems to be OK. I have a suspicion, that they are using some kind of interpolation technique, where they show slightly different colours for each frame, letting the eye see an average of these and thereby artificially increase the colour resolution. The problem is, that when things are moving this scheme doesn’t work, since colours will now be shown in different areas of the screen, leading to severe solarisation.

    When feeding the 503MXE via VGA or DVI at 70Hz the problem disappears, because at this frequency the display can reproduce all colours correctly! Of course, this leads to a new problem, which is judder. This is less annoying to me, and at the moment I am using a scaler (and as an option, a PC) to feed it via DVI with an acceptable quality.

    I have not seen the MXE-1 or the Panasonic 7-series. They are of course on my short list if I decide to replace the display one day. One thing is for sure: The next display has to be solarisation-free!

    Jens
     
  8. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    I would say that Panasonics show this artefact more than Pioneer. There is also more to setting up a display than AVIA and DVE (although they are a good place to start)....for a start I have visited dealers who use these discs but have been improperly instructed in how they should be used.

    A smaller display viewed at the same distance can often look nicer than a larger one at same viewing distance.

    I think you need to be prepared that all plasma just now will show this solaristion/posterision/false contour artefact at some point. If you are far enough away you may not notice and indeed on some it can be so insignificant that its not an issue.

    Just my thoughts.

    Gordon
     
  9. Sulis

    Sulis
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    ^^ Good point. This is leading me increasingly to consider a 37" Panny (probably 7 series). Not only is the WAF a bit stronger, but as we'll be about 10-12 feet away, hopefully most solarisation should be less obvious...
     
  10. JensH

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    Gordon,

    I had the impression, that the MXE-1's did not have the problem with solarisation, but are you saying, that even the MXE-1 has this problem? Is it mainly in the FRC2 mode or is it a general problem?

    Jens
     
  11. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    I haven't had enough time to fully exaomine the MXE01's. I never thought it much of an issue on the previous mxe's so doubt it's going to be much of an issue on these. it's jusst I expect there will be occassions where, if you really really want to see it, this artefact might be visible.....you might have to have your face a few inches off the screen of course....

    Gordon
     
  12. MAW

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    You'd better come and play with mine sometime Gordon! Drop me a line at your convenience, no rush.
     

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