Sofyen Belamouadden

Absolute cowards.

Then again people who use weapons are on defenceless people.

I hope they all die sooner rather than later, bunch of scum :censored:

This part really sums up how society is though Rush-hour commuters looked on in horror, seriously if you're ever attacked or in trouble you can bet your life more people will look on, or even pretend not to have seen anything rather than offer help.

I used to think I'd take the same approach i.e no one would help me so why should I, but I now would like to think that I would offer some sort of help.

I just hope I don't have to witness anything like that anytime soon....
 
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but I now would like to think that I would offer some sort of help.

To people with Katana's? I doubt you would. Neither would I. Unless I was carrying a Katana, and was highly skilled.
 
To people with Katana's? I doubt you would. Neither would I. Unless I was carrying a Katana, and was highly skilled.

Not necessarily jump in, but then again who knows what I'd do, maybe I might even turn a blind eye.

If it was family though I'd jump in, I'd rather get killed than them.

The fact is we live in a society that has the "Someone else will do it" or "It doesn't effect me" attitude.

And what do you mean highly skilled? I'm a second dan in judo and done some krav maga, even if you were highly skilled in another martial art etc it means nothing with a weapon.

The best thing to do is always avoid a confrontation regardless of skill, krav maga dealt with disarming and the attitude was pretty much focused on ending a situation as quickly as possibly using whatever force you could, although avoiding confrontation was always the preferred choice.

Even if you were skilled it's questionable whether you would jump in, quite often the fact that it doesn't effect you or you don't know the person is reason enough to keep walking.

Either way no matter how tough someone is, or how "skilled" they are, the element of surprise and a weapon can take down most people.

In any situation whether it be an attack, a car crash whatever you only have a split second to decide what to do, and most of the time we all have the same reflex/natural reaction.

It takes a lot of time and dedication to something to train ourselves to change and control our natural reactions.
 
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Not necessarily jump in, but then again who knows what I'd do, maybe I might even turn a blind eye.

If it was family though I'd jump in, I'd rather get killed than them.

The fact is we live in a society that has the "Someone else will do it" or "It doesn't effect me" attitude.

And what do you mean highly skilled? I'm a second dan in judo and done some krav maga, even if you were highly skilled in another martial art etc it means nothing with a weapon.

The best thing to do is always avoid a confrontation regardless of skill, krav maga dealt with disarming and the attitude was pretty much focused on ending a situation as quickly as possibly using whatever force you could, although avoiding confrontation was always the preferred choice.

Even if you were skilled it's questionable whether you would jump in, quite often the fact that it doesn't effect you or you don't know the person is reason enough to keep walking.

Either way no matter how tough someone is, or how "skilled" they are, the element of surprise and a weapon can take down most people.

In any situation whether it be an attack, a car crash whatever you only have a split second to decide what to do, and most of the time we all have the same reflex/natural reaction.

It takes a lot of time and dedication to something to train ourselves to change and control our natural reactions.


Although I admire your attitude in wanting to help there were 20 people running at this lad with weapons including knives and swords, how would you be able to help? As advised with in the report the forosity of the attack was appalling and left the lad who was killed completely unprepaired.

If somebody did try and step in against 20 people with weapons I am sure that we would be talking about the lads death and that person who tried to help!
 
Although I admire your attitude in wanting to help there were 20 people running at this lad with weapons including knives and swords, how would you be able to help? As advised with in the report the forosity of the attack was appalling and left the lad who was killed completely unprepaired.

If somebody did try and step in against 20 people with weapons I am sure that we would be talking about the lads death and that person who tried to help!

I should probably clarify I was talking in general and again on what I'd like to think I WOULD do, no one knows how they would react until they are in that situation.

Obviously in a real situation where say there were a big group of guys attacking someone I don't for one second think I'd try and be a "hero" and try and take them on.

Let's face it there have been numerous cases where someone defenceless has been attacked, in trouble and passers by have acted like they saw nothing or kept walking by.

But we live in a society where people would turn a blind eye even if they could do something, I would like to think that if it was possible for me to do something I would.

Here's an example that doesn't involve a big group with 20 "ninjas", in the snow we had by liverpool street station a larger women took a fall, honestly people just kept walking past, as they were obviously too busy, I stopped to see if she was alright, then a few more stopped.
 
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This part really sums up how society is though Rush-hour commuters looked on in horror, seriously if you're ever attacked or in trouble you can bet your life more people will look on, or even pretend not to have seen anything rather than offer help.

20 youths charging at him with weapons including a samurai sword.

I wouldnt expect many to get involved when something like that is happening, yeah its a horrible thing but do you really envisage yourself standing between one lad and 20 armed men?

I would like to think I would do something but I honestly think id be frozen by fear in such a situation.
 
What on earth could you do? If it was in the street, and you were in a car could plow through the attackers and Sofyen would get in. Probably be in more trouble than the gang :-/
 
20 youths charging at him with weapons including a samurai sword.

I wouldnt expect many to get involved when something like that is happening, yeah its a horrible thing but do you really envisage yourself standing between one lad and 20 armed men?

I would like to think I would do something but I honestly think id be frozen by fear in such a situation.

Again I'm talking in general, even if it was one little boy with a water pistol most people would have just kept walking.

My point is that nowadays the majority turn a blind eye even if THEY CAN do something.

I'm not going to get into an argument about it, all I can go by is my own experience, I've lost faith in our society, even if people that day could do something most would walk past.

And again I have not once said I would try and take on 20 guys with weapons, or that the average person should, my point was when I highlighted a part of the article and summed up society in general, which is nowadays people will turn a blind eye regardless, as they take the approach that it doesn't effect them.

Yet they are the first ones to cry for help when they need it.

Honestly some people wouldn't even bother to call the police, they'd rather just keep walking.
 
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That's shocking and I'm no stranger to London and certainly no stranger to violence having grown up in the worst part of the troubles.

As far as rival schools went, we had a lot of that but the injuries were all fat lips and black eyes, no one took it too far, same with on the street, some even rougher fights but nothing more than a few stitches or a fracture. But this.. 20 against one and with all sorts of weapons and a sword! that's maddening and the way they hunted him down makes me ill, I know the feeling myself and I was lucky but it's without doubt one of the most terrifying situations to be in.

It's really hard to know what to do or what you would do. These kids are absolute animals these days, I'm sick of people saying we didn't have less crime and the whole you could leave your door open during the day is nonsense and we're looking thru it via rose coloured glasses - that's just balls, because we did leave our door open when I was a kid and the only 'bad men' you had to be wary of was the local peado.

Of course then it got a bit more blowy upy shooty killy in the mid / late 80's and doors got shut then. I have one nephew going into secondary school this year and 2 to follow very closely, I can't help but feel worried. I've always felt that England was a more violent place for typical street crime like muggings and whatnot and I think the coppers over there are absolute balls of steel with no gun.

Very very sad business, really struck a nerve with me reading that and I usually just glance over that kinda thing.
 
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That's shocking and I'm no stranger to London and certainly no stranger to violence having grown up in the worst part of the troubles.

As far as rival schools went, we had a lot of that but the njuries were all fat lips and black eyes, no one took it too far same with on the street, some even rougher fights but nothing more than a few stitches or a fracture. But this.. 20 against one and with all sorts of weapons and a sword! that's maddening and the way they hunted him down makes me ill, I know the feeling myself and I was lucky but it's without doubt one of the most terrifying situations to be in.

It's really hard to know what to do or what you would do. These kids are absolute animals these days, I'm sick of people saying we had less crime and the whole you could leave your door open during the day is nonsense and we're looking thru it via rose coloured glasses - that's just balls, because we did leave are door open when I was a kid and the only 'bad men' you had to be wary of was the local peado.

Of course then it got a bit more blowy upy shooty killy in the mid / late 80's and doors got shut then. I have one nephew going into secondary school this year and 2 to follow very closely, I can't help but feel worried. I've always felt that England was a more violent place for typical street crime like muggings and whatnot and I think the coppers over there are absolute balls of steel with no gun.

Very very sad business, really struck a nerve with me reading that and I usually just glance over that kinda thing.

Unfortunately a lot of people in the younger generation have no fear or respect for anything.
 
Again I'm talking in general, even if it was one little boy with a water pistol most people would have just kept walking.

My point is that nowadays the majority turn a blind eye even if THEY CAN do something.

You base this assumption on... ?

People not getting involved because they're scared or know they don't stand a chance is no reflection on their character. No one in their right mind would jump on their own in front of a gang, wether they have weapons or not.

There are plenty of people however who intervene in arguments and fights when it's one on one. Some get badly hurt for their bravoury, some others don't. The thing that's certain is that newspapers aren't going to report all these acts, you only hear about the shocking stuff.
 
You base this assumption on... ?

My own experience, a family member that was killed had not one person call an ambulance, explain that?

Maybe had someone called an ambulance they might still be here today.

Or the number of people that I've seen say fall in the street, or a cyclist get hit, believe me in every case it's a majority that keep walking and a minority that help.

No matter how anyone puts it, we live in a society where the majority will keep walking. If you believe any different then you're very much mistaken.

There are plenty of people however who intervene

Really, not where I live there aren't.

I've got nothing more to say on it, I have my own views you have yours.
 
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As a cyclist I know most people would not bother to stop if I was hit. More interested in chatting about Eastenders and other inane dribble.
 
As a cyclist I know most people would not bother to stop if I was hit. More interested in chatting about Eastenders and other inane dribble.

That's not true, apparently the majority would all stop and get out of their cars....

Going back to reality they'd drive round you and take a look at you on the floor in their rear view mirror.

Hell you'd be lucky if the person that hit you stops.

The only time I wouldn't stop in a situation like that is if there were already people there, there comes a point where too many people crowding round achieves absolutely nothing.

Let's face it though we live in a society where the majority will drive off if they hit your car in the car park if they feel no one saw them do it.

Don't tell me people leaving notes on windscreens is common :laugh:

So you think those same people would stop if they saw someone in trouble.

The majority are selfish, I'm not saying I'm a saint and help old ladies cross the road and would jump off a roof to catch someone falling, but I have a few morals that I stand by.
 
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Unfortunately a lot of people in the younger generation have no fear or respect for anything.

What do you put it down to tho? I know a lot of beard strokers will be able to quote this 'more tolerant' society and kids are bored and drugs are to blame and all that.

I've meant to say this before many times - The abuse you can give cops these days is utterly unreal by any standard. If we were to harass a cop back in our day you would have got a rifle butt in the face or dragged into the back of landrover and got a diggin - nowadays I see kids taunting them and trying to grab their machine guns... :eek:

And these hood rats of 15+ lurking around, fair enuff a lot of them are just bored and slouching about wasting oxygen but these violent ones, I dunno - no one seems to want to deal with them effectively.
 
What benefit could these cowards possibly have to society after their release? They should be locked up for life.

Each of them should be chased down by people with machetes. Let them feel utter fear and dread. Each one of them watch as one by one they're called up to be butchered.

Eye for an eye. talking of which looks like that Iranian acid attack sentence is going to be carried out. Good.
 
What do you put it down to tho?

I think it simply comes down to lack of consequences.

Obviously there are people out there that will still do certain things regardless of the consequences, but a majority would stop if there was more to be worried about.

Nowadays they can tell anyone they like to F off, they can vandalise things and no they can't be touched or they are just given a little caution, if anyone does touch them they shout "assault"

When I was younger I feared my dad, seriously if I told him to shut up let alone f off I'd be eating hospital food.

Seriously what do youngsters have to fear nowadays? If the average 13 year old goes and kicks someones car what do they have to worry about if they are caught?

Also they have no consequence from even their parents, due to all this no hitting more talking, seriously I weren't beaten, I didn't need to be, the fear of what I knew would happen was enough.

Nowadays all that happens is mummy takes their phone or they stop the internet...OOh woah slow down their you're bordering on child abuse :laugh:

And I believe that from an early age this whole no fear, no reason to respect anything gets out of control and slowly progresses to the stage where they literally think they are "untouchable"

Oh and before anyone says anything I'm not saying the answer is to BEAT CHILDREN UP, I'm just saying that there has to be more consequences for peoples actions though, give people a reason to not do something.

Obviously harsher consequences will not stop everyone, you could shoot people if they done minor things but there would still be people that would do them, but harsher consequences would reduce certain things.
 
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That's not true, apparently the majority would all stop and get out of their cars....

I think it all depends on where you are, I hear many stories like that from London and from friends in Edinburgh but I know that stuff like that wouldnt be likely in Glasgow.

Simple things like a friend was trying to take a pram up some stairs and was completely ignored in Edinburgh, doing the same in Glasgow and whoever was beside her as she approached the stairs would simply say "right misses" grab the front of the pram and make a move, not even stopping at the top to get a thankyou.

All just boils down to where you have been brought up and by who imo.
 
All these people who ask 'what would you do?' You don't have to tackle an armed group of 20. How about shouting something like 'Stop!' or 'I'm calling the Police'. I was in a park in Birmingham a few years ago and a gang of lads attacked two other lads and I shouted exactly that at them. A couple of other people chimed in as a result of what I said. The gang of lads didn't turn on us, although we were heavily out-numbered but ran off instead. It's just takes one person to encourage others to intervene.
 
I think it all depends on where you are, I hear many stories like that from London and from friends in Edinburgh but I know that stuff like that wouldnt be likely in Glasgow.

Simple things like a friend was trying to take a pram up some stairs and was completely ignored in Edinburgh, doing the same in Glasgow and whoever was beside her as she approached the stairs would simply say "right misses" grab the front of the pram and make a move, not even stopping at the top to get a thankyou.

All just boils down to where you have been brought up and by who imo.

Yeah as you say it can depend on where you are, in the city I wouldn't fancy my chances of someone helping me.


All these people who ask 'what would you do?' You don't have to tackle an armed group of 20. How about shouting something like 'Stop!' or 'I'm calling the Police'. I was in a park in Birmingham a few years ago and a gang of lads attacked two other lads and I shouted exactly that at them. A couple of other people chimed in as a result of what I said. The gang of lads didn't turn on us, although we were heavily out-numbered but ran off instead. It's just takes one person to encourage others to intervene.

See that's kinda my point, regardless of what someone COULD do they often just choose to act like they saw nothing or keep walking.

You've given a good example, if you see say a group attacking someone in the road, how about calling the police, but again a majority would just keep going, as "someone else will sort it" and "it doesn't effect me"
 
What you're talking about is the bystander effect and is not always because people are unwilling to help. It's more that people take their cues from one another - if people look around and see nobody else reacting, they don't react either.
 
some people have family that depend on them thats my reason for keeping my distance in heated situations.↲A few years ago though i had no qualms about getting amongst it.↲Obviously in the situation described in this thread the only thing you could do is call ES, trying to intervene would be pointless.
 
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The only time I wouldn't stop in a situation like that is if there were already people there

So basically you're saying you're an exception??

In my experience, I offer help to people so that must make two of us already. Then you have CaptainArchive who scared some thugs away, and I'm sure a few others will come in and tell us what they did.
No offence but you're not the exception...

I'm by no means saying that everyone will stop and help but like you said, you don't need the whole street to stop to help someone. And if it's a dangerous situation, you can't blame people putting their safety first, most emergency services do that!
 

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