Sofa against rear wall - is it worth considering 6/7.1???

Discussion in 'Home Cinema Speakers' started by kevtotty, Apr 1, 2004.

  1. kevtotty

    kevtotty
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    Hi there

    My sofa is up against the wall in my lounge.

    Previously I had 2 Mission 77DS either end of the sofa.

    After redec, the original plan was to move the speakers to the side walls and obtain a third s/h DS for a centre rear. This would be positioned where the L/H rear was previously.

    The rear wall is the length of an average sofa plus the width of a door, this would mean the L&R surrounds would be approx 10 feet apart.

    The BIG question is how would the Rear Centre channel sound?? would it add much depth being so close to the listening position? Would 2 be better than 1??


    Also I have (stupidly) concealed only a single cable for the rear so I am restricted to a single speaker or could I wire a pair to a single output since the single is mono??

    Has anybody gone for a 6.1/7.1 setup under similar circs?

    Any advice would be most welcome

    Kev
     
  2. Ian J

    Ian J
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    It seems to be a similar position to mine. I have my rears on the side wall and haven't bothered with the extra speakers as my seating position is against the rear wall too.
     
  3. kevtotty

    kevtotty
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    Ian

    Don't you feel you could be missing out??

    Kev
     
  4. Nobber22

    Nobber22
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    I was at a friend's house this week and for a test we added an extra Eltax bipole to his wall right behind the sofa for 6.1. There was an improvement in panning across the rear and a feeling of a bit more "atmosphere" (weak description, I know :rolleyes: ) behind us.

    BUT with the centre rear so close to our heads (about 80 cms higher than our ears) it tended to dominate the entire soundtrack, forcing us to turn down the all the rear speakers to hear the fronts again. Then the sound was too low at the back from the other 2 rears unfortunately. Bummer.

    All in all the extra sound from the extra rear was obvious to the ear, but the positioning so close to our heads spoilt the sound, making it less impressive than "plain" 5.1 had sounded before.

    My mate has decided to stick with 5.1 in his room.
     
  5. Ian J

    Ian J
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    I am obviously missing out on not being able to utilise a more modern soundfield but I believe that these extended rear surroundfields were invented with the larger American living rooms in mind and I think that good 5.1 is preferable to a possibly muddy 7.1 in an inappropriate room
     
  6. Stuart Wright

    Stuart Wright
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    Nobber22 you need an amp which allows you to set the volume of all 7 speakers independently.
    I'll be having rear speakers very close to the back of our seating.
    Tripoles with the forward facing speaker deactivated might be a solution.
    As could placing the rears further down behind the seating more out of earshot.
     
  7. kevtotty

    kevtotty
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    Spectre

    I think the 77DS's are bi-poles and I have read on this forum that this type of speaker may actually muddy the rear soundfield when used as a rear.

    Other thoughts I have had were to place a single DS on the floor directly behind the sofa and see whether the MACC function on the AX5i would automatically compensate for this.

    I am still a little unsure whether I would have been better off laying 2 cables for 2 rear centres - many feel that a single often confuses the brain(!!!).

    Plus there is still the option of sticking with 5.1 and bi-amping the fronts.

    Any advice before I bin the lot of it and go back to my Prologic Tosh Tele?????


    Kev
     
  8. Dfour

    Dfour
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    If you havent got the room for the 6/7.1 setup bi-amp the fronts. I have read it makes a huge differance in stereo so it should make a difference in a/v.

    What have you got to lose by trying?? Unless your using hideously expensive speaker cable :eek:
     
  9. stevej

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    I’ve read many threads about this and IMO I think the problem is that many peeps are lsitening for the SB channel. Surely, it should blend in with the surround field. You don’t listen specifically for surround information when watching a movie, it’s just there, whether it’s an atmospheric or directional effect. This why, I presume, Dolby recommend placing surround speakers high on the wall so as not to focus your hearing on what should be effect channels. With my own setup, the sofa is less that 1’ away from the rear wall and we have an SB speaker. Put it this way. When I switch to 5.1, my GF notices the difference.
     
  10. stranger

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    I am in the same situation and use a mission 77DS for the centre back (single) and high up, As this speaker is bipole I find it is ideal for this situation. it has a mid driver and tweeter on each side pointing diagonally at the side walls (where my surrounds are) so it doesn't muddy the soundfield it really enhances it.
    If your surrounds and rear are drownig out your front s/stage then the volume for the surrounds and rear is set too high as mentioned above.
     
  11. Ed Selley

    Ed Selley
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    I tried using an MS304 as a centre rear but as others have said, it was too close to my listening position and ended up dominating the rear effects. I sold it and changed my 903 bipoles for the 506 THX dipole and this 5.1 setup is much superior in my living room.
     
  12. darrylp

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    I've got the identical problem and have two side dipoles and two downward facing dipoles and this provides the surround and rear I think you'd like.
    Regular speakers would be too directional and this solution provides most of the rear sound effects desired.
    It's essential to be able to adjust individual volume levels with a meter to get the desired results.
    Darryl
     
  13. dynamic turtle

    dynamic turtle
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    Decided to ditch the centre rear, the wall was becoming over-run with speakers and the MS bi-poles do a fine job as they are.

    My HT system is used mainly for gaming. No console or games (that I know of) support 6.1 anyway. As for having 2 rear centre channels - overkill!

    Hell, I don't even like the centre channel concept. We've all grown up with dialog in stereo format until Pro logic 2 came along, and I still haven't got used to having the Front L/R's as "effects" channels.

    If I had to install a rear centre with the sofa against the wall, I'd put it about 1 metre higher than the rear surrounds but use a bracket to angle the speaker downwards onto my position.

    Just a thought...

    Dynamic Turtle
     
  14. Galaxy

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    I have 7.1 from a Denon and have four Eltax BiPoles as surrounds, the L&R just ahead of the main seating position and the rears as your setup right behind about 6 feet apart, IMHO they sound lovely, the effects are subtle but definately there, have the levels set with a meter, and I really dont feel the need for an upgrade at all, so they have to be good! LOL

    Best regards David
     
  15. bob1

    bob1
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    I have 2 speakers on the floor behind the sofa and it does the job ok.Take a look here ,a few pics of my room.There are 2 speakers behind connected to each other in 6.1 not 7.1 mode.
     
  16. Family Guy

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    You need to have a think about this mate. Have you daisy chained the speakers? If so, you could be doing your amp some serious damage...what you need to do is connect them in series (I think it's series...the name dosen't matter, the method is correct...)
    I take it your amp only has 1 surround back speaker output, correct?
    You need to run 1 wire from the positive terminal to the positive terminal of one speaker. Then, run 1 wire between the negative terminal of that speaker and the positive spekare of the other speaker. Finally, from the negative terminal of the second speaker to the negative terminal of the amp...
    I have no idea of the science behind this, but no doubt someone who does will catch on to this thread and point it out...it all has to do with the load on your amp.
     
  17. bob1

    bob1
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    It's a good job i'm not as daft as i look :D ,yes the speakers are in series =16ohm(easy load).Not in parallel=4ohms(hard load) What do you mean by daisy chain?

    Anyway had it like that for over a year and its been ok.
    The science behind it is basic ohms law.
    :lesson:
     
  18. Family Guy

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    I know mate - I am ffikk!! Daisy chaining is is joining 2 speakers together for the pos & neg terminals. Basically running 2 speakers from 1 terminal...
    I might have to give the series bit a go...I only have 1 surround back output. I might even try the speaker behind the sofa ploy as well...
     
  19. happychappy

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    Just A thought
    How about a dedicated in ceiling speaker such as those from B&W , Kef Sonance etc? if you try it please let me know the outcome as I intend to try this myself:confused:
     
  20. john R1

    john R1
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    i had a mk k 15 as a rear centre behind the setee got fed up keep adjusting the volume, now sits on the floor pointing upwards " works for me"
     
  21. mw3cdj

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    Hi,
    My 7.1's are about 12" away from my listening position , and found that if i reduced the volume to them by 1.5db in comparison to the rest of the system , then the sound Field became very open and i could not locate the sound they were outputting , but missed the effect they were producing when switched off. I find that when listening to a 6.1 discreet soundtrack they sound fantastic , but not as good with matrixed . 7.1 stereo also sounds good with music (CD) but when i switch back to 2 ch stereo i realize thats how music should be listened to.

    Daran.
     

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