Yet people in government and those sympathetic to them were certainly allocating blame on teachers.Teachers certainly weren't taking the blame for the decline in standards in teaching (as evidenced by other surveys), so not sure they can take the credit for this!
Teachers certainly weren't taking the blame for the decline in standards in teaching (as evidenced by other surveys), so not sure they can take the credit for this!
What is non child centred?I think the child centred learning that Wilshaw has criticised as 'lefty' has led directly to the results of this study, ...
And the recent one that praises students is cast iron ...Which surveys might these be?
The only surveys of any influence are PISA, and they're now heavily discredited.
Steve W
And the recent one that praises students is cast iron ...
Typical.
You have used a double negative here my good man, I won't point out your grammatical error but would encourage you to locate, and correct it yourself. In this way you will have recognised and understood what you have done wrong and hopefully remember it should you be required to make a similar point in the future.Oh I am listening, although I don't need to hear it as it is fairly obvious.
Rather it is the attitude that covers everything with teachers, they can't do no wrong in their own eyes seemingly, any time grade inflation occurring hand in hand with demonstrable lowering of school leavers ability in numeracy and literacy the head gets burried, no need for PISA.
Oh I am listening, although I don't need to hear it as it is fairly obvious.
Rather it is the attitude that covers everything with teachers, they can't do no wrong in their own eyes seemingly, any time grade inflation occurring hand in hand with demonstrable lowering of school leavers ability in numeracy and literacy the head gets burried, no need for PISA.
You see, all you've done there is hurl abuse.
You haven't discussed the PISA tests, or the problem-solving tests, or Shanghai. You've really just said "Oh, you always say that!"
Which really is why I don't venture here very often anymore. Too many people just hurling abuse instead of discussing the points raises, one by one.
I don't have an 'attitude' about this - I think international comparisons can be a vaulable tool in measuring performance. But if Shanghai are ignoring two-thirds of their students, are you actually saying it's a bad attitude that teachers have to point this out?
Should we ignore it?
Should we pretend the tests are accurate when they're clearly not?
Should we not celebrate our students doing well in problem-solving tests?
I'm not a person who "can't do no wrong", but I do think it's quite important to verify data.
Steve W
You mean like the 'data' that says students in the UK have been getting better and better (as evidenced by increasing numbers of higher grade passes etc) all the while actual evidence by people employing those students (and universities who take on those individuals) suggests the opposite?
Well, I suppose if I were to keep in with tone of the thread I should just hurl abuse at you. But I'll tell you what, I'll deal with the points you raise.
Firstly, that "...actual evidence by people employing those students..." isn't data at all, it's anecdotal evidence at best.
Secondly, even if that anecdotal evidence is right, it tends to be quite limited. For example, it tends to refer to things like students not being able to compose a letter.
Now I'm not saying this isn't relevant or important - it is. However, it doesn't really say that educational standards are falling.
Take letter writing as an example. My personal opinion is that we should be providing society with literate and numerate young men and women, first and foremost. The problem here isn't the teachers, or even the standard of GCSEs, it's the content. The day we replace English and maths GCSEs with literacy and numeracy qualifications will be a giant step forward.
Most people do not use quadratic equations, or analyse Shakespearean texts for a job, nor do they need to. And yet we have political policy which insists the teaching Shakespeare is increased in the GCSE courses, in response to employers saying they need young people to be able to compose letters.
Is any of that the teachers' fault? Teachers have to teach the national curriculum and GCSE syllabus. They really have no choice.
Steve W
You introduced PISA as your own straw man, I tossed it aside as a straw man should be, I then staked my claim on the actual issues, we all know that PISA is discredited, and I said so.You see, all you've done there is hurl abuse.
You haven't discussed the PISA tests, or the problem-solving tests, or Shanghai. You've really just said "Oh, you always say that!"
Which really is why I don't venture here very often anymore. Too many people just hurling abuse instead of discussing the points raises, one by one.
I don't have an 'attitude' about this - I think international comparisons can be a vaulable tool in measuring performance. But if Shanghai are ignoring two-thirds of their students, are you actually saying it's a bad attitude that teachers have to point this out?
Should we ignore it?
Should we pretend the tests are accurate when they're clearly not?
Should we not celebrate our students doing well in problem-solving tests?
I'm not a person who "can't do no wrong", but I do think it's quite important to verify data.
Steve W
Given the number of students going to University these days, the evidence is not "quite limited" - plenty of evidence about courses having to be modified as pupils simply don't have the basic skills and knowledge to undertake the next step of their learning.
Given the number of students going to University these days, the evidence is not "quite limited" - plenty of evidence about courses having to be modified as pupils simply don't have the basic skills and knowledge to undertake the next step of their learning.
And the point is also made that the teachers are quick enough to threaten and undertake strike action when changes to their pay and pensions are proposed yet were quite happy to sit back and revel in the glory of ever increasing grades despite the adverse impact on the quality of students being produced.
That says a lot about what is important to (some / many / all) teachers. IMO.
You have used a double negative here my good man, I won't point out your grammatical error but would encourage you to locate, and correct it yourself. In this way you will have recognised and understood what you have done wrong and hopefully remember it should you be required to make a similar point in the future.
Child centred learning.!