So, Sweden...

sergiup

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Does anyone know much about living in Sweden (ideally personally, not a mate's mate or something like that), moving there from the UK, etc? I'm doing my research anyway, but I figured I might as well ask. It's not an imminent move, just something I (we..) may be considering; I work in IT and t'missus works in the tech side of financial services, so theoretically our skills are easily transferable. Our littl'un is still under two years old, so there'd be no real drama there about losing friends etc. Learning Swedish will be one of the bigger challenges..

So far I've somewhat gotten to grips with the concept of the personnummer, possibly having to do most things in person, filling in forms etc, doesn't seem like much of a problem for me. The lack of next-day Amazon deliveries of cheap tat might be more of a problem frankly.

Tack! :)
 
Awesome place to live from the little I've seen. Hopefully we'll have right to work post-Brexit fiasco but I'm sure you'd get a work permit with your skillset.
 
I have been looking at Norway myself. Now Sweden might be different but you are treated like a second class citizen until you are given Norwegian citizen. Over in Norway it's likely I'll be paid less than a Norwegians, will not have the same rights to healthcare etc as a Norwegian and will likely pay more tax.
As for your skills, do you have a degree? If not then you may struggle. I'm currently doing an engineering degree and in Norway the minimum is a master's degree.
The cost of living is considerably higher as well. For example a packet of bacon is £7. Fruit and vegetables cost considerably more as it's imported. Fuel is a similar price however most motorways are toll roads and you can pay about £3 for every 15 miles. (Electric cars are currently excluded). The country itself is beautiful and there is so much land that is untouched and as you can imagine they have an active outdoor lifestyle. Be it fishing or hiking in the summer to skiing and sledging in the winter. Be warned the climate isn't great. I was there for most of August and we had one week of sunshine. The rest of the time it was cold and wet, at night it can still drop to close to freezing in the countryside.
As I said however that is for Norway, Sweden might be different
 
Awesome place to live from the little I've seen. Hopefully we'll have right to work post-Brexit fiasco but I'm sure you'd get a work permit with your skillset.

I'm not actually a British citizen - like other EU citizens, I never had a real reason to apply for it...

I have been looking at Norway myself. Now Sweden might be different but you are treated like a second class citizen until you are given Norwegian citizen. Over in Norway it's likely I'll be paid less than a Norwegians, will not have the same rights to healthcare etc as a Norwegian and will likely pay more tax.
As for your skills, do you have a degree? If not then you may struggle. I'm currently doing an engineering degree and in Norway the minimum is a master's degree.
The cost of living is considerably higher as well. For example a packet of bacon is £7. Fruit and vegetables cost considerably more as it's imported. Fuel is a similar price however most motorways are toll roads and you can pay about £3 for every 15 miles. (Electric cars are currently excluded). The country itself is beautiful and there is so much land that is untouched and as you can imagine they have an active outdoor lifestyle. Be it fishing or hiking in the summer to skiing and sledging in the winter. Be warned the climate isn't great. I was there for most of August and we had one week of sunshine. The rest of the time it was cold and wet, at night it can still drop to close to freezing in the countryside.
As I said however that is for Norway, Sweden might be different

I have a BEng from a UK university - not a masters though. I'm aware of the higher living costs, although in theory we'd be saving a fair bit on childcare costs and education. We're not huge eaters and I'm happy to adapt / adjust our diet depending on what's available; maybe a little less so for my wife, but then again she's usually happy with relatively simple things like bolognese, lasagna etc. Motorway costs - ouch... well, part of the whole package, just something to keep in mind I guess.

Thank you, I realise that's for Norway, still useful though :)
 
Norway is quite different as not in the EU though. And ahead of the game when it comes to punishing driving pollution!
 
I'm not actually a British citizen - like other EU citizens, I never had a real reason to apply for it...
I assume you've therefore already had experience of switching country or your other nationality is from descent?

Can't help personally as its not a country I've lived in but having been asked similar for countries I have then it'd be helpful for others either to have more explicit questions or at least areas to focus on (costs, process, social etc) as "whats it like to live in Sweden?" is a rather broad question.
 
Be warned the climate isn't great. I was there for most of August and we had one week of sunshine. The rest of the time it was cold and wet, at night it can still drop to close to freezing in the countryside.

Just like the UK at the moment then!
 
I assume you've therefore already had experience of switching country or your other nationality is from descent?

Can't help personally as its not a country I've lived in but having been asked similar for countries I have then it'd be helpful for others either to have more explicit questions or at least areas to focus on (costs, process, social etc) as "whats it like to live in Sweden?" is a rather broad question.

Yeah, you could say so... came over when I was 13 (by myself) for school, pretty much stayed since; went home for most holidays, then home for a whole gap year while at Uni (had a job back 'home' during that time), came back to finish Uni, then back home for another ~9 months doing my old manager's job, then back to London where I've been ever since. That only involves two countries and two languages really, but plenty of change and different circumstances.

You're right though about the more explicit questions. I think the first pragmatic thing to do is work out how much I would be earning, and what our expenses would be for an equivalent lifestyle; depending on the answer to that we may need to either just move, or ensure that t'wife can continue her job remotely / maybe from the local office.

First and foremost I'd be looking to find a job, we're not the kind that could just move and hope for the best, too stressful... So, I guess I'd need to find costs for:
- renting a 2 or 3 bed place, and what a reasonable commute is
- energy / mobile / broadband / council tax (or whatever it is)
- food
- commuting, depending on where the job / accommodation are
- childcare costs (admittedly much lower than the UK) and hours covered
- relocating all the stuff
- if holidays/flights etc are considerably more expensive

Spreadsheet time! :cool:
 
Sweden. I worked for a company that was part Swedish and had a few trips out there, so can offer some insight.

1. The north gets everlasting winter and 24 hour sunshine in the summer. Not permanently of course, but bear it in mind.

2. All booze is (was?) sold via government establishment offlicences and is extremely expensive.

3. Maternity leave for citizens is really very good indeed.

4. Swedes can drive in the snow very well and it doesn't result in 3 days working from home because of sleet.

5. The culture is very relaxed but hard working - there are long summer holidays like a lot of mainland Europe.

6. Houses are expensive and I believe tax to be quite high.

7. It's the cleanest country I have visited, next to Denmark. You are responsible for keeping your own part of the public footpath clean and clear of ice and snow for example.

8. People are far more friendly than the UK and the school system is comparatively very good to other countries in Europe.

9. Fika. Something that simply couldn't work in the UK.

10. The men wear slim-fitting trousers. It's not a good look imo.

I thought it was a very nice country with extremely nice people. As long as you are in Stockholm or Gothenburg, you'll have plenty of work. Some of the other cities can be harder to get work - as per here really.
 
Just stay well clear of Malmo ;)
 
From memory, Tax, Tax and more Tax.

Booze, well you get to go tea-total due to prices.

Shop opening hours were strange last time I was there.

Saunas with naked blonde ladies + point.
 
Stockholm is already 'small', outside it it will feel even 'smaller'. Average house price is about £525K so be aware....Average IT Software Engineer salary is about £38K...

I'd have no problem living there...Although personally if you are looking for Northern Europe I think I'd prefer Copenhagen. Especially with a little one it is very child friendly and cheap flight connections. Nice beaches, good cycling etc...But then again I'm not looking to move. My next move will be somewhere warm....
 
Stockholm is already 'small', outside it it will feel even 'smaller'. Average house price is about £525K so be aware....Average IT Software Engineer salary is about £38K...

I'd have no problem living there...Although personally if you are looking for Northern Europe I think I'd prefer Copenhagen. Especially with a little one it is very child friendly and cheap flight connections. Nice beaches, good cycling etc...But then again I'm not looking to move. My next move will be somewhere warm....

Thanks, very useful :) I'm probing salary ranges now, hopefully it's a bit above that though, otherwise it'd be a considerable drop compared to the UK. I'll look at Copenhagen too, good suggestion! The wife would love somewhere warm, but most of those places seem compromised in other ways...
 
Thanks, very useful :) I'm probing salary ranges now, hopefully it's a bit above that though, otherwise it'd be a considerable drop compared to the UK. I'll look at Copenhagen too, good suggestion! The wife would love somewhere warm, but most of those places seem compromised in other ways...
Well yes I agree, and without knowing exactly what you do and what you are on now I always take averages with a pinch of salt...According to my 'area' the average in the UK is about 25% of what I'm on...However when moving to a new country I normally expect to have to built it up again a little bit, you know take a little drop initial. Suss out how it really works out there and what the real wages and structure is. Learn the lingo to present yourself in the right context, and then you can build it up to your own standards again.

Another thing to know, in my experience there isn't as much BS on people's CV's in Northern European countries. It is factual and real experience. Not the kind where they've popped in a CD and ran setup.exe and all of a sudden they designed the full solution.

I know there are a lot of compromises everywhere. I've lived in 17 countries now, and the grass definitely isn't greener anywhere. The UK is actually pretty good in my opinion. Saying that, I also really like Poland these days. Fantastic people, decent infrastructure and standard of living. And especially tech and financial services it is very good....

Also, and I'm not sure about the experience, but have you considered the Netherlands? Europol is constantly recruiting. They've got some big projects going on and a lot of combination of IT people working with police. Lots of different backgrounds and a very international and fun environment to work in. Both pure IT and actually also in financial services technology as with every crime it is nearly always about money....

The Hague is a great place, public announcements on transport are in English and Dutch. Many schools are multi-lingual as well. Just a thought.
 
I've lived in 17 countries now, and the grass definitely isn't greener anywhere. The UK is actually pretty good in my opinion.
.

Spend 3 hours in Harpurhey and you'll change your mind. Or an hour on a Pacer train in rush hour
 
Spend 3 hours in Harpurhey and you'll change your mind. Or an hour on a Pacer train in rush hour
LOL There are shit places everywhere. I spend a lot of time in Salford and Toxteth before it was redeveloped. And too many nights in Wythenshawe.

But always happy to go back to my home in the beautiful south, near Luton London.
 
LOL There are sh*t places everywhere. I spend a lot of time in Salford and Toxteth before it was redeveloped. And too many nights in Wythenshawe.

But always happy to go back to my home in the beautiful south, near Luton London.
Oh you live down south. That's why you probably like the UK then
 
Oh you live down south. That's why you probably like the UK then
I do indeed, however when we were looking to buy our home I was quite willing to go west or north. My wife wasn't so much in favour of that. And fair enough it has proven useful to have the support network of friends and family around us when raising children who are now teens. Really not something to be underestimated in our experience.
 
I do indeed, however when we were looking to buy our home I was quite willing to go west or north. My wife wasn't so much in favour of that. And fair enough it has proven useful to have the support network of friends and family around us when raising children who are now teens. Really not something to be underestimated in our experience.
Yes we moved to Midlands for family support and it hasn't panned out. Luckily we've found good jobs with bluechips and have good friends instead.

I grew up in the South and don't want to ever go back. Loved the north but just not enough work that pays what I want.

Not surprising that we ended in the middle!
 
Well yes I agree, and without knowing exactly what you do and what you are on now I always take averages with a pinch of salt...According to my 'area' the average in the UK is about 25% of what I'm on...However when moving to a new country I normally expect to have to built it up again a little bit, you know take a little drop initial. Suss out how it really works out there and what the real wages and structure is. Learn the lingo to present yourself in the right context, and then you can build it up to your own standards again.

Another thing to know, in my experience there isn't as much BS on people's CV's in Northern European countries. It is factual and real experience. Not the kind where they've popped in a CD and ran setup.exe and all of a sudden they designed the full solution.

I know there are a lot of compromises everywhere. I've lived in 17 countries now, and the grass definitely isn't greener anywhere. The UK is actually pretty good in my opinion. Saying that, I also really like Poland these days. Fantastic people, decent infrastructure and standard of living. And especially tech and financial services it is very good....

Also, and I'm not sure about the experience, but have you considered the Netherlands? Europol is constantly recruiting. They've got some big projects going on and a lot of combination of IT people working with police. Lots of different backgrounds and a very international and fun environment to work in. Both pure IT and actually also in financial services technology as with every crime it is nearly always about money....

The Hague is a great place, public announcements on transport are in English and Dutch. Many schools are multi-lingual as well. Just a thought.

Fountain of knowledge, aren't you..? :) I appreciate the replies, honestly - hearing opinions from actual people is always better (well, as close to 'actual people' as you can get on AVF :D ).

I think I'm pretty normal for a network admin in the financial sector in London - not to the level of some hedge funds / top-paying banks, but I get flexibility and some fairly generous other benefits which help in the long term. Obviously I don't really want to say how/what/etc on a public forum... According to some websites I'm around average for London wages in my domain, which is good in a way because it doesn't set any exaggerated expectations if I were to move away.

I've got a cousin and a few friends living & working in the Netherlands, I had considered it and it's always been on the list - but I know more about it already, hence not asking about it yet. Europol is a good shout actually! I'm a little confused about their terms (they seem to imply an initial five year contract, optionally followed by no more than one four year re-sign), but provided I would pass probation etc I would see no issue with having to find something else after 5 years - promotions etc excluded of course.

Thank you :thumbsup:
 
Yes, their terms are nearly always fixed term contract based. It's a melting pot of many nationalities and as to be expected with some clear sovereignty on certain physical floors. When I was there I was the subject of a lot of banter in the 'neutral' zone. Considering some of the subject matter that is being dealt with, that (extended) time period is probably long enough exposure to what is going on in the world ;)

BTW I'm not talking you out of Sweden at all. Merely demonstrating a possible alternative which may also be an easier transition due to the language skills. Not many realise it, but the skills are more transferrable than you think, especially with financial services background, controls that are in place, AML, KYC etc....In both directions ;) there is a lot of interest in Human Resources switching industries.

Good luck to you and your family to whatever you'll be choosing to do and wherever in the world. Exciting times...
 
I was in Stockholm last year as part of a three centre holiday (the others were Helsinki and Tallinn). I was shocked by the number of immigrants begging in the basement of the Central Station and elsewhere.
 

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