So long silver disc – is this the end of CD? - article discussion

Yes a small separate CD player is as rare as rocking horse s...
Recently I was faced with this problem. I have a home bar and the music is from iPad, usually via Bluetooth to the amplifier. But occasionally friends and family want their CDs to be played. I wasn't prepared to pay CD player prices so opted for a Sony DVD player. Just over £30. It works well, unfortunately no front display, but no real hardship there.
Sony DVD Player
I bought the slightly older model which had analogue outputs. I see this one has HDMI and optical only

Don't forget this is an AV forum,a fair amount of members will be willing to paid a good price to get the best out of their CD :)
 
For me this is rather pointless argument. Mainly because i am not interested in music and VERY rarely listen to it at all. In fact I find it is generally annoying. However I will regret not being able to buy CDs as presents for friends and relatives who do enjoy it. Much like the demise of Vinyl I suspect this is an argument which will rumble on and on for years. People like the security of stuff having a physical presence rather than a stream of binary data.
Another (to me more valid point) is once CDs go the way of the northern white rhino how long will it be before DVD and Bluray are ditched.
 
If this is really the case and not some imagined thing, then your sound hardware in the PC is a load of junk. Bin it / don't use it. What DAC is it? Is it motherboard based?

A good computer DAC generates a highly accurate hardware data clock that is used to signal to the rest of the hardware and software chain to provide blocks of data in a sufficiently timely manner to maintain an uninterrupted and accurate audio stream. So long as the compute can provide timely data for these block requests then nothing whatsoever has any impact on the sound that you hear given otherwise identical bit streams.

If something in the computer is in any way interfering with the ability to provide audio data in a timely manner, then you typically hear obvious crackles/glitches. I work with profession audio interfaces for recording and mixing music, so I am quite used to how these work under the very demanding conditions of mixing and mastering.

Now it is possible that the hardware clock is actually synchronised to an effectively software based clock, in which case the old world of wow and flutter can have an impact, however with decent hardware DACs and appropriately configured/implemented supporting software this does not happen.
I don't use anything other than single core within the processor for that one program, and everything from the memory to the drives have been optimised to get the best out of it. This goes for the Operating system right down the BIOS setting the optimal clock for my system. I've been messing for many years now. I know there is another jump with dedicated server software running in core mode, but I'm happy with it, so why break it.

One thing on my side is that I'm lucky to have heard some very exciting PC based solutions over my years within the industry and I know mine is a match for some of the very best I've heard. So I'll have to disagree with you saying throw it in the bin :D:rotfl:

If you build a PC right for music, you'll be amazed how revealing the output file can be when presented to the DAC and essentially this is the point I was trying to make about streaming compared to a locally sourced CD rip. Yes, once its left the PC and presented to the DAC, its open season and fully reliant upon the quality of your audio electronics and what suits your ears mostly.

But if you can use the most accurate representation of that music file and present that to the DAC without any excess processors running other than what's optimally required to keep both the operating system and essential programs for delivering those file to the DAC, then you will hear an amazing difference and if you cannot, then its time to throw the PC in the bin.

Myself, I've invested heavily into a local files system and could never see myself going back to a CD Player as all the ones I've heard within a are similarly priced to what I paid for my PC (Inc-Software (Approximately £3K)) are poor. I know mine PC also matches some system costing upwards of £5K as I've tested them which makes me very happy.

I hope CD's never disappear as its still a great way to locally archive music and at least "Bit-Perfect" gives your CD's a starting reference point.
 
@ShanePJ @Khazul Your last couple of replies regarding computers, having to adjust various components within them, noise etc, is perhaps the best arguments in favour of the CD and standalone player. Take the disc out of the jewel case stick it in the player and we're off.:thumbsup:

Or is that too simplistic?
 
@ShanePJ @Khazul Your last couple of replies regarding computers, having to adjust various components within them, noise etc, is perhaps the best arguments in favour of the CD and standalone player. Take the disc out of the jewel case stick it in the player and we're off.:thumbsup:

Or is that too simplistic?
It’s exactly why people adopted CD in the first place! That and the ‘perfect sound, forever’ slogan... :)
 
@ShanePJ @Khazul Your last couple of replies regarding computers, having to adjust various components within them, noise etc, is perhaps the best arguments in favour of the CD and standalone player. Take the disc out of the jewel case stick it in the player and we're off.:thumbsup:

Or is that too simplistic?
Sadly, when you've got the bug, you'll do anything to get more detail out of that humble CD and if you enjoy it, its another notch that you'll never give up :laugh:

One thing that's true though is that all we are trying to do is recreate the trusty old vinyl sound from a digital media regardless of whether its CD or streamed. It's amazing how silly it can get and lets face it. A £1K record player with a £1.5k valve amp plus a pair nice of 3 way speakers including cables with the right LP will obliterate them all in the right room :p
 
It will be many years before there is nothing left to play cds on. As well as players still in existence ( many that will play for years to come) and are still being produced, the latest iteration of disc player ie the uhd bluray player plays the ubiquitous cd, write it off at your peril.
PS I am purchasing more cd and sacd now than I've ever done before.
 
Sadly, when you've got the bug, you'll do anything and if you enjoy it, its another notch that you'll never give up :laugh:

One thing that's true though is that all we are trying to do is recreate the trusty old vinyl sound from a digital media regardless of whether its CD or streamed. It's amazing how silly it can get and lets face it. A £1K record player with a £1.5k valve amp plus a pair nice of 3 way speakers including cables with the right LP will obliterate them all in the right room :p

Pops clicks and scratching to boot ;):)
 
Are there stats on who buys CDs in terms of ages? Presumably people's first experience of music on demand is now streaming - are these people going out and buying CDs? Or just it mostly they people that grew up on them?
 
@ShanePJ @Khazul Your last couple of replies regarding computers, having to adjust various components within them, noise etc, is perhaps the best arguments in favour of the CD and standalone player. Take the disc out of the jewel case stick it in the player and we're off.:thumbsup:

Or is that too simplistic?
You don't need to do anything. I stick the CD in the laptop, rip it, drag and drop. What more you do is up to you. You needn't rip at all. I just find it more convenient to rip and then browse through it all later.
 
One good thing about this is we are all talking about CD's and we must all have some love for them as it seems most don't want them to go
 
Are there stats on who buys CDs in terms of ages? Presumably people's first experience of music on demand is now streaming - are these people going out and buying CDs? Or just it mostly they people that grew up on them?
Last time I was in Birmingham HMV there seemed no age difference to those buying, browsing. Entirely unscientific.

Also note, what people do when young isn't the same as what people do when older. When young I was drinking K and Breaker. I wouldn't do it now.

Kids tend to be young, not have much disposable income and probably won't stream either. They might be using torrents and getting all their music free anyway.

As you get older you are going out less, stopping in more, have more money and then might spend your money on vinyl, CDs, streaming or whatever else.
 
And as CDs get older there is always the risk of CD rot
I dug out a few CDs dating back to around 1985. They still play fine. Eventually this might happen, but they are ripped anyway.
 
I own 1000+ CDs and still buy at least one a week,I have never ever downloaded any music,I do use Spotify and YouTube to discover new music,I then look to buy the physical copy
 
Sadly, when you've got the bug, you'll do anything to get more detail out of that humble CD and if you enjoy it, its another notch that you'll never give up :laugh:

One thing that's true though is that all we are trying to do is recreate the trusty old vinyl sound from a digital media regardless of whether its CD or streamed. It's amazing how silly it can get and lets face it. A £1K record player with a £1.5k valve amp plus a pair nice of 3 way speakers including cables with the right LP will obliterate them all in the right room :p
Not so. Some of us are very happy not to have that old vinyl sound. So who is this "all " kimo sabe ?
... I can do very nicely without the rumble, the wow and flutter, the surface noise , the likihood of hum , the limited stereo effect,the random clicks and pops, most of which in fairness can be removed ,at a price, and then there is the limited dynamic range .. not induced by the ego of a sound engineer but a fundemental limitation of the technology and the limited bandwidth. .. The audio CD has by design been limited to 22khz , it could have been been set at 4 MHz . The myth that vinyl has a higher bandwidth is just that.. a myth. It also could support higher frequencies, if it were spun faster and or none contact sensors used...
It is precisely because the CD allows all of these errors to be circumvented, that people are searching for faults. It's more of a Protestant ethic.. how can anything this easy , and which feels so good be other than a sin?
 
And he will inherit a load of media that he will have no device to play it on and/or CD rot has set in
Not really CD rot does not seem to affect commercial CD's and computers have optical drives ..Blu ray DVD still play cd and cd players are still being made.




."Similar issue with a friend with a massive and continuously growing paperback collection, 'I can pass them on to my kids' "

This is true to an extent but Kindles and e books have not rendered libraries obsolete and it seems they will co-exist for a long time

"Vinyl will continue in its niche market because it is a simple engineering problem to make a mechanical record deck ."

Not sure the makers of high-end Turntables would agree .. Similarly I think optical laser reading technology is well established and cheap and costly Cd players abound.

I still buy CDs. and rip to Flac but for now , I My house is large enough to have that many without significant issues with SWMBO ..

I do not think CD's will die anytime soon but the retail stores are certainly vanishing. My Local HMV seems to be thriving .
 
Last time I was in Birmingham HMV there seemed no age difference to those buying, browsing. Entirely unscientific.

Also note, what people do when young isn't the same as what people do when older. When young I was drinking K and Breaker. I wouldn't do it now.

Kids tend to be young, not have much disposable income and probably won't stream either. They might be using torrents and getting all their music free anyway.

As you get older you are going out less, stopping in more, have more money and then might spend your money on vinyl, CDs, streaming or whatever else.

Would be interesting to see what would trigger a change for someone from the convenience of streaming over to CD. As for cost for the young, streaming services have family plans - for an extra £5 a month parents can give everyone in the family access.
 
@ShanePJ @Khazul Your last couple of replies regarding computers, having to adjust various components within them, noise etc, is perhaps the best arguments in favour of the CD and standalone player. Take the disc out of the jewel case stick it in the player and we're off.:thumbsup:

That assumes that the CD player will always correctly read the data from the CD in time for uninterrupted playback. This is the advantage that ripping the CD with something like dBPowerAmp has - it can keep retrying for as long as it takes or eventually gives up. The data it reads can be validated against online database for accuracy before accepting the file as a good accurate rip. When playing back such a file with a decent media player encompassing a good DAC and good quality digital processing, there is less to go wrong than when playing back a CD in a CD player. Accurate ripping a CD back to a file is really just a way of removing a source of failure (the mechanical drive/and optical media).

Digital is rather like analog small signal processing in some ways - in the analog world we worry about the quality of pre-amps, tone controls, interconnects etc. In the digital world we worry about the quality of processing algorithms (and the actual DAC boundary). In both worlds there are good and bad. In most standard computer OSs audio drivers, cheap streaming boxes, music out via HDMI digital etc - there are often relatively basic algorithms used compared to say similar processing that goes on in my digital audio workstations which of course are professional studio grade algorithms. A high end USB DAC with its own dedicated playback software that does everything the right way can be technically as good as if not better than high end HiFi components.
 
That assumes that the CD player will always correctly read the data from the CD in time for uninterrupted playback. This is the advantage that ripping the CD with something like dBPowerAmp has - it can keep retrying for as long as it takes or eventually gives up. The data it reads can be validated against online database for accuracy before accepting the file as a good accurate rip. When playing back such a file with a decent media player encompassing a good DAC and good quality digital processing, there is less to go wrong than when playing back a CD in a CD player. Accurate ripping a CD back to a file is really just a way of removing a source of failure (the mechanical drive/and optical media).

Digital is rather like analog small signal processing in some ways - in the analog world we worry about the quality of pre-amps, tone controls, interconnects etc. In the digital world we worry about the quality of processing algorithms (and the actual DAC boundary). In both worlds there are good and bad. In most standard computer OSs audio drivers, cheap streaming boxes, music out via HDMI digital etc - there are often relatively basic algorithms used compared to say similar processing that goes on in my digital audio workstations which of course are professional studio grade algorithms. A high end USB DAC with its own dedicated playback software that does everything the right way can be technically as good as if not better than high end HiFi components.

Now you've completely lost me, in the nicest possible way. I doubt there are very many of my generation have the foggiest idea of what you have just descibed. In that way when we shuffle off this mortal coil CDs may die with us. Pointless then leaving my CD collection to my grandsons.:)
 
Must admit I binned a hundred or so 45s, they went back to the Days of (Tommy Steel) :laugh: you remember him :thumbsdow LPs I left On dumpster which were soon picked up buy a neighbor.

Same happened to my tapes and CDs DVDs and all my kids who had loads of them they didn’t want them sad to say many films they bought and didn’t want went in the bin.

Yesterday’s rubbish today’s antiques.

The past two cars I had including the present one I never used the CD DVD player.
 
Ive now completely stopped buying CD's, streaming all my music from TIDAL using ROON is much more convenient and sounds amazing. (i just wish TIDAL would also add older playlists for the more mature listener)
 

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