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So I went and bought one...

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by sixspeed, Oct 12, 2003.

  1. sixspeed

    sixspeed
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    After a few tips from people from here and demo's of a few projectors on Friday... I've gone and jumped head-first into projector ownership with the purchase of a Sim2 Domino 20! :D

    Would like to say a big thank-you to Jeff at ProjectorsAreUs.co.uk (Horsham Hi-Fi) for all his help and time going through a few DVDs with the my gf and myself on Friday.

    Compared it back-to-back with the Infocus 5700. The Sim2 won in the end since the Infocus suffered a lot from background picture noise, and also, due to the very bright lamp, even in Eco-mode, black levels weren't very black... :( But as for rainbows - I couldn't see any in either. The Infocus is very good, and if you don't have the budget for a Sim2, will make an excellent projector. Especially if you're not going to find the two problems above much of an issue. For me however, I was happy to spend the extra hard-earned to get the perfect picture :)

    Also saw an HT-1000 previously at Nexnix. Not sure what to say really. Saw several rainbows - probably not enough to ruin a film, but compared to not seeing any on the Sim2, it wasn't good enough. Also, the picture looked very poor in comparison. The optics clearly didn't seem to be up to the job, since all the projectors used the same resolution panels, but the HT-1000 image didn't look very good at all. Maybe it wasn't set up correctly. I did feel the guys at Nexnix
    let me down a bit. They didn't seem to have any record of my booking to visit, so weren't really prepared when I turned up - and then didn't seem to interested in my business TBH. If I hadn't been going to see Jeff afterwards, I would have felt like I'd wasted an afternoon off work going to see them. So not many points to them there.


    Anyway, back to the Sim2. Everything I wanted. It seemed to perform exactly the same as the 300 Plus I saw at a Sevenoaks Hi-Fi store about 6 months ago. That was the only projector I'd seen until Friday, and it had that immediate 'wow' factor. The Domino20 did exactly the same for me as the 300 did back then.. just at over half the price!


    Now just got to get it all set up! :D


    Pics in a few days I guess! :)



    -andy-
     
  2. Gary Lightfoot

    Gary Lightfoot
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    It's a pity you didn't dem the HT1000 at Jeffs too, you would have been very pleased with the image. Jeff certainly knows how to get the best out of a projector.

    However, I do think that Sim has excellent processing and optics, and considering that the lowly HT200DMF had a slight edge in colour accuracy and image rendition when compared to the HT1000, I would think that you've bought the better of the two projectors.

    Did you get to see any Hi Def while you were there? I was amazed at just how much better it looks compared to DVD even on 1024 x 576 res projectors. I've played some clips on my HT1000 and now I'm looking at upgrading my HTPC to accomodate the few clips I have. :)

    Gary.
     
  3. sixspeed

    sixspeed
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    Jeff did treat me to some Hi-Def stuff... mind-blowing! You don't realise how poor DVD really is til you watch it!

    Going back to my lowly DVD from Hi-Def was like going back to VHS from DVD.... !


    -andy-
     
  4. Gary Lightfoot

    Gary Lightfoot
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    My thoughts entirely. :)

    Gary.
     
  5. Peter Baker

    Peter Baker
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    Hi and congrats!!
    So you went for the Sim eh?
    Interesting that both of us looked at the same two PJs and came to differing conclusions.
    I'm sure that setup must have quite a lot to do with this.
    As I said, the colours on the Sim looked pallid in comparison to the 5700 when I saw them. In addition black levels looked pretty similar between the two.
    I am interested in the comment on video noise in the picture. This is apparent sometimes on dark scenes, and can be a little distracting. However, it doesn't always appear, and seems more to do with the fidelity of the disc.
    If it is always better with the Sim then this would indeed be a major plus. Whether this is enough to outweigh the less punchy picture and the brightness disparity is obviously a matter for personal preference.
    As a matter of interest, did you also see these differences, as they were most marked when I compared the two. Even ratcheting up the colour and contrast levels, I couldn't get the same colours on the Sim, and I found this most surprising.

    Perhaps the setup was at fault.

    In any case I am sure that both of us will be very happy with our choices, which seem to bring £6k quality down to £3-4k.

    Finally, whilst I have never seen the HT1000, the almost evangelical zeal of its owners makes your disappointment with it quite difficult to accept. Setup again ?

    Best regards

    Peter
     
  6. sixspeed

    sixspeed
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    I do think the setup of the HT1000 was partly to blame for it's poor performance. But that would only have affected the picture quality, and not the rainbows, which I did find a few times. Like I say, I didn't see any when I watched the same DVDs on the Sim2.

    As for differences between the Domino20 and 5700, I doubt that anyone would be disappointed with either. With the 5700 available in places for around £2700, the price certainly makes up for a few of the issues (background picture noise, black levels (?)). Only by doing a quick back to back comparison did I really notice the difference, and it wasn't that great to be honest. I did prefer the picture on the Sim2 - it felt more filmic to me. Also the warranty and support for Sim2 is very good (from a friend's experience), so I was happy to buy into that.

    I guess I would have gone away on the day and given the purchase a bit more thought, and might have gone for the 5700 over the price, but Jeff did me a bit of a deal with a screen as well so I couldn't say no... :)


    -andy-
     
  7. RTFM

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    If you have not read it, there is a good thread on the avsforum.com in the U.S. re. a shootout between the Domino 20 and the NEC HT 1000.
     
  8. sixspeed

    sixspeed
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    Just had a look. A few hours later and glad I made the choice that I did... although the lack of DVI input on the Domino20 is a bit of a disappointment and something I forgot to look into before I bought the projector. I just presumed it would have it (oops!).

    I did want to build a PC to play DVDs through, but I'm not going to lose any sleep over it....



    -andy-
     
  9. Gary Lightfoot

    Gary Lightfoot
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    Use vga - you'll probably find the difference isn't that great. Probably best to do a search here and over at avs to see what kind of results vga will give on the domino first though.

    Gary.
     
  10. RTFM

    RTFM
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    I've used DVI and SVGA through both the 300 Xtra and 300 Link and the differences are very subtle.
    I wouldn't want have a wager on which was which with a movie playing. The quality of DVDs varies more than the differences between the signals IMHO.
     
  11. Gary Lightfoot

    Gary Lightfoot
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    Thanks for the clarification Jeff.

    Having done the same tests with my HT1000, I couldn't see much difference either. I just use DVI because:

    1. I bought the cable, and it would be a shame not to use it.

    2. It's meant to be better, so it must be, right??

    3. I like to brag that I use DVI. :)

    4. The vga is now being used by a Syworth DVD player that I got out of curiosity.

    5. Placebo also says that DVI is better. :D

    Gary.
     
  12. Messiah

    Messiah
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    I think they said the pj's were £3-4k but giving the quality of a £6k machine. have to agree though that I would think twice about buying one without DVI not so much for HTPC use but the plethora of players that are starting to arrive with DVI output. bet none of them have a VGA output.
     
  13. RTFM

    RTFM
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    I don't think you are going to see too many players with DVI springing up when HDMI is being adopted by the big players like Pioneer with their new 668 and 868 players out next month.
     
  14. Messiah

    Messiah
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    Agreed, but isn't the connector the same meaning a firmware upgrade may be all that is needed on DVI equipped pjs for them to support HDMI. Or am I talking rubbish ? :D

    Extract from Intel Developer Forum

    "However, if you've bought an HDTV with a DVI-HDCP connection, your bases are covered -- all it takes to convert between a DVI connection and HDMI connection (for the video, at least) is a cable with different connectors on each end. "

    Another reason why I would not buy a pj without DVI.

    Also, there are already players from Momitsu, Brainwave, Samsung, Denon, Marantz and others so still a good reason to ensure you have a DVI port.
     
  15. RTFM

    RTFM
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    HDMI supports audio as well meaning only one connection needed from the DVD player.
    The new Sim2 HT 300 Link supprts HDMI on its DigiOptic Image Processor which has an audio digital out to feed a processor or A/V amplifier.
     
  16. Cool-hand

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    Hi all again...

    Its an old thread but I had to repost. I've recently demo-ed the SIM2 Dom20 and Dom30 at Jeffs and have to say I was completely blown away.... Completely!

    Out of respect for Sixspeed I deleted my earlier post which viewed my surprise at buying a PJ without DVI input! Me the fool!!

    This is clearly a case proving that chasing the technology for DVI input etc... may not neccarssarly get you a better picture (what i feel the hdmi brigade are currently doing).

    Im gonna hold out till after early new year now and hopefully get the Domino30 as i think HD on it is be better.

    Well done Sixspeed.

    CH
     
  17. gandley

    gandley
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    Hey cool hand told u they were good eh!

    The domino20 is superb almost as good as the 30.

    but for a grand more u get the marantz12s3 with dvi hdcp which i think is going to be an absolut belter. Have seen the 12s2 and thought that was brilliant bar a slight flicker but i think that was down to a dogdey bulb.

    But from what AVS has to say and other post the 12s3 is the one to beat. has its own self calibrator as well which actually works.
     
  18. Gary Lightfoot

    Gary Lightfoot
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    Hi CH.

    Jeff certainly knows how to give a great demo doesn't he? Using Bikini babes is underhand though, and not fair to us poor guys - doesn't it make you wanna buy something? ;)

    I have to agree with you regarding DVI - I've seen it back to back with vga on my HT1000, and it's very hard to see any difference. Hi Def via component was no slouch and obviously able to deliver a very detailed image. Jeff commented that DVI looks likely to be relegated to PC use only, and after hearing John Dawsons chat at The Event, it looks like he's right.

    HDMI and other copy protection looks like the future, and DVI isn't part of it - the new cables are more akin to Firewire. Looks like the technology is being driven by Hollywood, and I don't know if that's good or bad. :)

    Gary.
     
  19. sixspeed

    sixspeed
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    Glad you enjoyed it. I've got about 150hours on my projector now and it just gets better :)

    Hooked up the Xbox with a Hi-def (component) cable, and built myself a Shuttle-based PC thats connected via the VGA port. All very nice... Call of Duty is a bit good on a 92" screen with 5.1 surround :D


    -andy-
     
  20. gandley

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    well dvi and hdmi are one and the same thing except hdmi can carry audio, but there is all ready talk of hdmi 2
    all will see is a move away from dvi connectors. well thats if companies want to pay the license agreement.

    and as pjs get used alot with computers will they change?
     
  21. Gary Lightfoot

    Gary Lightfoot
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    Hi Andy,

    what software player are you using? I found PowerDVD XP to be a lot smoother and have far less mpg noise than WinDVD, so you might want to try that just to see. Drop me a pm if you'd like to try it.

    Gary.
     
  22. Cool-hand

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    Yes yes, i stand corrected. I will try to demo a 12s3 asap. Thanks.

    Gary, yes Jeff does know how to make a great picture, but that could also be the excellent Sim!
    I found the 30 smoother with dvd film but the 20 & 30 otherwise were equal, colour, blacks etc....

    WOW! :smashin:

    CH
     
  23. sixspeed

    sixspeed
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    Cheers, I'll give that a go!

    I've got a Pioneer DV-656 connected into the component input as well that I use for DVDs most of the time so I don't really use the PC for serious DVD watching. I have played a couple through the PC just to see what it was like though, so I'll give PowerDVD a shot!


    -andy-
     
  24. RTFM

    RTFM
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    TheaterTek is a great software player.
    You can download a limited time free trial
     

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