Remind me again @Mr Wolf, how does sensitivity on a 4 ohm speaker relate to sensitivity on an 8 ohm speaker?
It's about budget I already had decent 100w stereo amps pretty much all round, something like eight boxes, wanted to decrease number of boxes, no point downgrading to budget multi channel,.
One, a comparison of the delivery into 8 Ohms versus into 4 Ohms. See the post here:
Arendal Sound 1723 Series Speakers
Why do you insist on talking crap on absolutely everything? You have a serious problem with having to comment on everything and try to sway people in YOUR direction. Whether using power amps is better or not is irrelevant, Arendal speakers sound great with an avr. And you can't comment on that...www.avforums.com
if you're looking at 4-Ohm speakers like these Arendals, when considering power I think it's better to consider 4-Ohm power ratings and knock 3dB of their sensitivity as their ratings are taken at 2.83v which 2W into a 4-Ohm load, not 1W.
It's a very good point and the answer to this explains why a 30W/channel stereo audiophile amp can sound so much better than a 150W/channel flagship AVR or a 300W HT power amp when playing music.
My understanding is that it's to do with how an amp has been designed to deliver sufficient current in the face of difficult loads (i.e. high phase angles) so things like PSU, capacitance, output devices, transistors, rectifiers etc. all matter. Some AVRs will be designed much better in this area than others, even though they may have similar wattages. It's why an X8500 can sound much better than some of the lesser D&M models.
So the less great an amp is at handling difficult loads the more it makes sense to use it with easy to drive speakers. In my book, that's >89dB sensitivity for LCRs, 8-ohm nominal rated and no impedance dips under 4-Ohms in the critical 80Hz-400Hz region that has the loudest and longest peaks above the crossover point.
Strictly speaking, speaker sensitivity is not impacted by impedance at all as speakers are voltage driven devices and all sensitivity ratings are is a measurement of their SPL output at 1 metre when they are fed 2.83V.Remind me again @Mr Wolf, how does sensitivity on a 4 ohm speaker relate to sensitivity on an 8 ohm speaker?
It sure does, -5db volume requires 3.2x the power of -10dB, 0B volume requires 10x the power. Most AVRs can cope with -10dB easily unless they’re driving very inefficient speakers.@Mr Wolf
You stated that at -10db, my MK IW150 would only be pulling about 5W. Does this, by any chance increase exponentially as you approach -0db?
-10db is actually fine, but above that is where I think there is an issue. (Usually when I'm trying to demo something)
That could be read as a little misleading. For example, using 7x100wpc power amps versus one IOTAVX, there are so many variables involved here that I do not think anyone can make the sweeping statement that the IOTA would be a downgrade.
The number one potential advantage of the multi-channel amp is that the power supply is shared, instead of separate. Given our understanding of the power peaks that could occur in any known AV setup of those amplifiers, the multi-channel amp has the ability to draw more power for the LCR.
I'm not saying which is better and and don't think anyone could - far too many variables.
No apologies necessary! I appreciate the why to the what!Sorry, this is probably far more info than you were expecting but it’s a really important subject and understanding it enables better speaker/amp purchasing decisions which is of course why charts like the above get published. It’s far too simplistic to just think of speakers in terms of their nominal impedance ratings.
No apologies necessary! I appreciate the why to the what!
Unfortunately, all I have to work with is "Nominal impedance: 4 Ω; minimum 3.4 Ω" and "Sensitivity: 85 dB at 2.83 v/1m" for my speakers. There is no phase angle data that I've seen. It's all academic since I have the speakers and I like them. But I've been curious about how close the power I have in my system is to my needs.
If you want, I can estimate this for you if you give me the following:No apologies necessary! I appreciate the why to the what!
Unfortunately, all I have to work with is "Nominal impedance: 4 Ω; minimum 3.4 Ω" and "Sensitivity: 85 dB at 2.83 v/1m" for my speakers. There is no phase angle data that I've seen. It's all academic since I have the speakers and I like them. But I've been curious about how close the power I have in my system is to my needs.
@DodgeTheViper I've heard you now have an Anthem power amp of some sort. Please, it would be really interesting at some point when you have the time, to do the initial assessment you did in this thread again and comment.
You mean go through those same scenes and put myself through it again ?@DodgeTheViper I've heard you now have an Anthem power amp of some sort. Please, it would be really interesting at some point when you have the time, to do the initial assessment you did in this thread again and comment.
Which amp did you get Dodge?You mean go through those same scenes and put myself through it again ?
Ok, I actually did just that And my ears were thankful, especially with JW 2
This time it was a lot smoother, right up to -5.0db, with the sense that it could go higher without any particular issue. Even with that volume there was no loss of detail while retaining full on dynamics and no walking out with a busted head.
A little different with lower volume as well. Like a little livelier or dynamic without thinking that I need to whack the volume up for the enjoyment.
My mrs didn't know the new amp was in and after watching a movie on Saturday, she asked if i'd changed anything. Her comments were that it sounded more powerful and precise. Fair play to her
You mean go through those same scenes and put myself through it again ?
Ok, I actually did just that And my ears were thankful, especially with JW 2
This time it was a lot smoother, right up to -5.0db, with the sense that it could go higher without any particular issue. Even with that volume there was no loss of detail while retaining full on dynamics and no walking out with a busted head.
A little different with lower volume as well. Like a little livelier or dynamic without thinking that I need to whack the volume up for the enjoyment.
My mrs didn't know the new amp was in and after watching a movie on Saturday, she asked if i'd changed anything. Her comments were that it sounded more powerful and precise. Fair play to her
Anthem MCA 525Which amp did you get Dodge?
A few reasons tbh. Comparing a few specs and features, physical size, wanting to move away from Emotiva, and then online reading.Interesting, thank you. Do we gather that's an MCA 525 or the 325 just for LCR?
Any particular reason you chose it out of interest?
wanting to move away from Emotiva
No issues particularly. I just wanted to try something else.Issues you've had or something else?
i hear that, you know from your other thread i was watching this intently with a similar view in mind, absolutely nothing wrong with the emotiva i have, XPA-3 with 275W into 8ohms, so no shortage of power, but having picked up the AVM-70 the itch was there to pair it with an Anthem amplfier as well. I suspected you would like the Anthem, i would have been surprised if you had been disappointed.No issues particularly. I just wanted to try something else.