SNP majority

mcmi

Active Member
I know it's quite early on still but it does look as though the SNP are going to get a majority in the Scottish Parliament making the prospect of a referendum on independence very very real.

I heard an interesting argument last night that the polices they may introduce will be along the lines of the free prescription charges, no tuition fees for Scottish students etc as a deliberate ploy to annoy the English electorate.

The reason they would do this wasn't really clear as obviously the English would have no say on the Independence referendum, though it was mentioned that they could use Anti-Scottish feeling in England as a way of promoting a Yes vote to Independence.

Maybe going to open up a hornets nest here but do you think this could be the the beginning of the end of the Union?? Anyone bothered?? Is it all Nick Cleggs fault??
 

chrism_scotland

Well-known Member
Any referendum is said to include multiple options something along the lines of:

1. Full Scottish Independence
2. Increase power for Scotland but not full independence.
3. Status Quo

I suspect that Scotland would vote for option 2 rather than full independence.

There seems to be more feeling that theres more appetite for Scotland going along in England than Scotland!
 

Rasczak

Distinguished Member
I think it is a particularly dangerous situation - and the Union must now been seen as being in great peril.

The reason they would do this wasn't really clear as obviously the English would have no say on the Independence referendum, though it was mentioned that they could use Anti-Scottish feeling in England as a way of promoting a Yes vote to Independence.
Surely any referendum should be a national one? It would be very unfair if England didn't get the opportunity to vote on leaving the United Kingdom but Scotland did.
 
D

Deleted member 293381

Guest
As long as Scotland's independence includes fiscal independence.

If the Scottish get what they want I wish them all the luck - many of them have a deep-rooted sense of grievance which should stand them in good stead (on the other hand it might trip them up).

There are many thousands of Scots living and working in England. On independence will they have to go back to Scotia releasing their jobs for the English to take up?

Also, what will happen to the Union flag... And will they have Scottish passports?
 

kav

Distinguished Member
I worry about what they might do once independence was achieved. I feel like the SNP are so focussed on gaining independence that it would be like the Lib Dems getting into power - a complete shock to the system and an inability to manage the country successfully on an ongoing basis without the support of the rest of the UK.
 

Bald Monkey

Distinguished Member
There are many thousands of Scots living and working in England. On independence will they have to go back to Scotia releasing their jobs for the English to take up?

Why?? Plenty of foreign nationals from all over the world live and work in the UK, just as I'm sure many born in England now live and work in Scotland. I doubt they want to replicate Berlin after WW2, just be independant.

Saw an intersting program about the future of Energy Supply etc. If we do move to more 'green' power such as wind energy etc. Then Scotland could be one of the wealthies nations int he EU with the basic resources to be a large energy exporter.. What' left of the UK may regret loosing the Union then..

I suspect any decisions will be made based on how it effects the Vote and who would gain loose power, yet again..

I personally would be against it. Just for the simple reasons that I think we need to form more, larger unions and have less powerfull independant states. And granting independance to Scotland would be a step backwards, instead we should try leading the way in showing how you can cover local issues and also have a strong union to cover wider issues. As a model for how the EU and maybe eventually a world government could function. So IMHO tweak the union if necessary to make it work, rather than pull out and give up.
 

BISHI

Distinguished Member
I think Salmond wants full independence for Scotland for a small state within the EU. He does not seem to have understood quite how vulnerable smaller countries will be under the Euro umbrella ( assuming he will reject Stirling in favour of the Euro). Just look at Greece, Portugal and ,closest in size and population to a possible independent Scotland, Ireland to see how quickly economic fortunes can reverse. Bigger European countries can better absorb economic downturns and England without Scotland will still be big enough, Scotland without England will be too small and may eventually end up in a similair position to the first nation to cede from the UK.
I think the uniquness of the UK is a strength and helps it maintain its position at the hub of the Commonwealth. If Scotland breaks the Union I see the Commonwealth following suit.
Another possible consequence may be our security council seat - do we loose it or share it with Scotland, do our nukes belong to England or do we share them and who will become responsible for Scottish security...
 

Ed Selley

AVF Reviewer
I think Salmond wants full independence for Scotland for a small state within the EU. He does not seem to have understood quite how vulnerable smaller countries will be under the Euro umbrella ( assuming he will reject Stirling in favour of the Euro).

Given there is no precedent for a state seceding from an EU member, the assumption that Scotland would gain automatic EU membership (let alone the "right" to join the Euro) is a potentially risky one. Salmond knows this and many other potential traps of independence. This is why he will try to persue option 2 as described by chrism_scotland. As a resident of England I believe he should instead only be offered 1 or 3.
 

chrism_scotland

Well-known Member
Given there is no precedent for a state seceding from an EU member, the assumption that Scotland would gain automatic EU membership (let alone the "right" to join the Euro) is a potentially risky one. Salmond knows this and many other potential traps of independence. This is why he will try to persue option 2 as described by chrism_scotland. As a resident of England I believe he should instead only be offered 1 or 3.

There will no doubt be a debate about what referendum should be put to the Scottish people but Salmond isn't stupid he knows that he's likely to lose a straight yes or no vote so like they floated during the last parliament I'd expect a multi option poll.

That said I hope he drops his stupid ideas about the Euro, the last year has shown us exactly why we should be glad the UK has never joined it.
 

chrism_scotland

Well-known Member
And there we go Alex Salmond has his majority.
 

Rasczak

Distinguished Member
It is going to be interest to see how this affects UK policy. You would expect any referendum to have fairly prompt results - a Yes vote to independence would result in a break on many joint issues. The links between the two nations must, in preparation, be reduced.

For example contracts are already being prepared for a multi-billion pound upgrade of facilities in the Faslane Submarine Base. If Scotland is soon to leave the Union, it would make sense to re-allocate this money to a location that is likely to remain in the UK in the decades ahead.
 

homer timpson

Well-known Member
Another power crazed nut :rolleyes:
Really?

No party has ever gained a majority since Devolution - yet he just has :smashin:

A severe kicking for Labour and the Lib Dems - [that lot in blue don't even count].

He has galvanized his party and secured a thumping victory in a way the other party leaders were sooooooooo incapable of doing.

Homer
 

Rasczak

Distinguished Member
He has galvanized his party and secured a thumping victory in a way the other party leaders were sooooooooo incapable of doing.
He has a lot to prove now though. Remember he has promised:
- No compulsory redundancies in the public sector
- Continuing the council tax freeze for five years
- No university tuition fees
- Expanding the Modern Apprenticeship programme
- Universal free NHS prescriptions
- Free personal care for elderly people

...he now has to find and fund all that on his own. With a majority he has no hiding place whatsoever. And likewise he must now deliver an independence referendum...
 

Steven

Senior Moderator
Good luck to him then. If he succeeds it would surely benefit England [and Wales] when voters can then quite reasonably turn around and say hold on a second, if they can do it...
 

Rasczak

Distinguished Member
Good luck to him then. If he succeeds it would surely benefit England [and Wales] when voters can then quite reasonably turn around and say hold on a second, if they can do it...
I do, however, suspect Salmon's approach will be to expect England and Wales to pay for his promises to Scotland. Time will tell.
 

Confucius

Active Member
He has a lot to prove now though. Remember he has promised:
- No compulsory redundancies in the public sector
- Continuing the council tax freeze for five years
- No university tuition fees
- Expanding the Modern Apprenticeship programme
- Universal free NHS prescriptions
- Free personal care for elderly people

...he now has to find and fund all that on his own. With a majority he has no hiding place whatsoever. And likewise he must now deliver an independence referendum...

I suppose if they could use thistles as currency. They'll all be billionaires.

Exchange rate could be a prickly issue.
 

Phil57

Well-known Member
Full independence? would that mean no more Scottish as British Ministers or Prime Minister?
 

chrism_scotland

Well-known Member
So the Conservatives having 3 x the seats of the libtards means blue doesn't count?

Good luck with the work the Scottish education system needs with it's maths syllabus.

The Conservative vote held up pretty well down about 2.7% on 2007 but lost 5 seats, which is nothing compared to the scale of the Lib Dem and Labour downfall.

But he is right, the Conservatives in the Scottish Parliament are bit part players, its essentially the SNP and Labour show.
 

Wild Weasel

Distinguished Member
But isn't 'nationalist' another word for dangerous fascist?

Oh, wait, no that's just in England isn't it? Silly me. :facepalm:
 

nheather

Distinguished Member
As long as Scotland's independence includes fiscal independence.[?QUOTE]

I would more than happy for Scottish Independence if it meant just that. They generate their own income and they spend. No more extra handouts from English taxpayers. And they can take over the debt for the RBS. They would have claim to North Sea Oil within their terrority and I would support that as fair.

There are many thousands of Scots living and working in England. On independence will they have to go back to Scotia releasing their jobs for the English to take up?

I doubt this could be stop and in principle there is nothing wrong with it. I assume that the new Scotland would want to be part of the EU - whether this would mean they would have to apply and qualify, I don't know. But assuming theye were, there is nothing to stop any EU resident working in any EU country. I would like to see controls which would stop salarly being earned in the UK but taxes collected in Scotland. In some situations this would be difficult but it would need to be carefully controlled.


1. Full Scottish Independence
2. Increase power for Scotland but not full independence.
3. Status Quo

But to be honest I think the Scottish would vote for (2) - more Independence but we'll hang onto the English hand-outs thank you very much.

Cheers,

Nigel
 

kav

Distinguished Member
How much does England subsidise Scotland, all things considered? Not being facetious, I haven't a clue, but it seems to be mentioned with some irritation here frequently.
 

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