Snap crackle pop...after a year my Z1 has just died....

I was somewhat surprised to get a phonecall from the service centre at 9.30am (I only dropped the projector off @ 4pm yesterday - excellent service). They've cleaned the unit, which had quite a buildup of dust (which accounted for the bottom left of the picture), and they also confirmed that the lamp has exploded and nothing would be done under the warranty.

So next I phoned Nexnix who gave me TERRIBLE service! (that was for the benefit of Mr Self-Righteous;)). Actually that's not true, I had a long conversation with Lucy who basically sympathised as she's come across this several times before. But the bottom line is...Nexnix won't do anything. They've done it before and taken the hit, but obviously it comes off their bottom line and Sanyo refuse to do anything.

So next port of call....

I've phoned Owl Video Systems and spoken to someone in the servicing department (Lucy passed on their details, obviously being the UK Distributor). I'm sending the old lamp to them, to be sent off to Sanyo for inspection. It may be that they agree the lamp is faulty and reimburse me, if they don't then I'll then find out someone's name in Sanyo and go to them direct. - apparently they look at the shape of the blown lamp and can draw assessments from it, such as if the projector has been switched off incorrectly and hasn't been able to cool properly etc.

In the meantime I do need to buy another lamp, which comes as no surprise. The good news is that it isn't going to cost me as much as I expected: GM Services (Sanyo's main service agent) can get me one on a 24 hour delivery for £211 inc VAT, which is a good £100 cheaper than I was expecting.

One thing I AM sure of though; is that the blanket policy of Sanyo (and other manufacturers) is wrong regarding projector bulbs and is simply their way of adding incremental sales on to the original purchase price.

My projector has always been used in low lamp mode, it's always been looked after, and barring one powercut, it's always been switched off EXACTLY how it should be. For the lamp to last LESS than 30% of Sanyo's quoted life expectancy is unacceptable, and anyone who thinks that is acceptable has either no sense...or too much money:)

Thanks for all the views guys:)
 
No need to tell me to "get real" as you put it. Sanyo's own website states that the life expectancy of the lamp for the Z1 is "Up to 3000 hours" in low lamp mode.

"Up to 3000 hours" can range anything from Zero to 3000. That is a massive leeway, sure, but they haven't claimed otherwise. You've got 900, it's well out of their 90 days warranty, and it falls within their stated criteria....like it or not that's a grey area now. Other Z1 owners will get more hours and then again others may get less, that's the law of averages for you. Whether you want to accept that or not, however aggrieved you may feel, that's the REALITY of it. Was your expectation really to get nearer to 3000 hours to have to replace your bulb ? Even if you get a new unit or lamp do you think the odds of the new one failing anywhere between 0 and 3000 hrs will then change for you ?

No one likes an unforseen £300 bill for a lamp and I really hope you get a satisfactory resolution out of it. Personally I reckon you may get the chance of a swap out for a new unit, considering the other faults with yours, who knows ?
 
Events have obviously overtaken some of my comments whilst posting !
 
Originally posted by Ekko Star
Was your expectation really to get nearer to 3000 hours to have to replace your bulb ?

Of course it was, it was one of the reasons why I chose an LCD projector, because they have a "long" lamp life. Sanyo are misleading their customers by quoting the "3000 hours"; the words "up to" don't cut it imho. By your logic I should simply accept it if it blew up after 100 hours usage, as that falls into the "up to" trap. Which is nonsense.
 
I think Sanyo have covered themselves by giving a 90 day warranty and not giving a "life expectancy" where they state a minimum life of time and hours. Actually they do give minumum life time of 90 days but not hours.

I think the rule is that after 6months, the customer has to prove the failure is due to a manufacturing defect for the court to decide in their favour.

However, Smurfin's case seems to be an outlier on the statistical graph ie an exceptional case, for which all us Z1 owners would hope for a bit of goodwill.

The fairest solution in my eyes would be to give Smurfin a new bulb for cost price. It seems a win win situation to me. Nexnix do not lose any money but at the same time they gain good will and customer confidence. Smurfin gets a new bulb which will hopefully last the full 3000hrs but only pays about half the cost which seems ok as he's had a reasonable half a life span on the original.
 
Originally posted by calscot
The fairest solution in my eyes would be to give Smurfin a new bulb for cost price. It seems a win win situation to me. Nexnix do not lose any money but at the same time they gain good will and customer confidence. Smurfin gets a new bulb which will hopefully last the full 3000hrs but only pays about half the cost which seems ok as he's had a reasonable half a life span on the original.

Won't happen, and nexnix have already told me this. My beef isn't with them anyway, it's with the manufacturer and their "policies".
 
If it failed under 100hrs at your rate of usage you would still be covered well within the 90 day warranty.

Logic is simple it's a delicate consumable that can fail at anytime from 0hrs onwards. There's no nonsense in that, it goes with the territory.

I don't like it anymore than you or anyone else.
 
Having read through all of the post I agree with Smurfin. If I had only got 900hrs on low lamp mode I would be disappointed.
The light bulb analogy would have been a bit more realistic if you talked about an energy saver bulb, circa 10 pounds a bulb. I would be a bit annoyed if it popped after a day. It all comes down to how much you have to shell out.

I have racked up almost 2000hrs on the AE100 and hope it runs for another 2000... hope being the key word.

I did have a thought though - I wonder how many hours it would have lasted on full power mode....


Smurfin good to see you got a better price for the bulb than expected. Softens the blow a bit.

Andy
 
but how long will the replacement bulb last then? back to the 'upto 3000hrs' teritory..:(
 
My projector has always been used in low lamp mode, it's always been looked after, and barring one powercut, it's always been switched off EXACTLY how it should be.
Unfortunately, one power cut is all it takes to seriously reduce lamp life. I have a sanyo PJ (not the Z1) and it states in the manual that failure to follow correct power down procedure will result in reduced lamp life.

Hope you get a favourable result though.

Croc
 
I stand to be corrected, but it always seems that concerns about shutting down a projector are blown out of proportion, sure we all try to adhere to manufacturers guidelines at all times, it would be silly not too, but the only negative thing that can happen is that the residual heat inside the projector will not disapate as quickly as if it were fan assisted and therefore could stand a very slight chance of overheating nearby items, however switching off correctly still results in the bulb going out instantly, I mentioned this point to Lucy at Nexnix and she explained that the only way to possibly damage a bulb would be to switch off and then switch back on prior to the bulb cooling completely, my point is that if Smurfins bulb is faulty then I find it unlikely that user error is to blame.
 
So as projector owners, we should be seeking insurance against power cuts.....

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When switching the projector on, a bulb undergoes a lot of stress during the ramp-up phase. The voltages applied during this phase are under the assumption that the bulb is starting up from cold. Starting the ramp-up phase with a partially warmed up bulb can cause more stress than normal.

The purpose of the fan continuing to run for a period of time following shut-down is to cool the bulb down as quickly as possible and therefore minimise the danger-period of starting the projector again too soon.

In the event of a temporary power failure, this is no more harmful than a normal shutdown (in fact slightly less so because the bulb is allowed to cool down gradually) providing the projector isn't restarted for a good 5 or 10 minutes.

Allan
 
Anytime we lose power...... it will rarely be less than a few hours..... no ups short of a generator in your yard can handle that

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I wasn't suggesting you continue watching the movie you know :p

A UPS would safely allow enough time to shut down the PJ - a couple of minutes at most.

:smoke:
 
Originally posted by Kramer
Or investing in a nice UPS :D

where can i find an UPS that handles 1500 W ? :rolleyes:
 
how many times was the pj switched on per day?, more start ups mean less bulb life. the 'up to 3000 hours' means just that, you wont always get that many hours. its like get up to £30 off certain bought items, you could get £10 , you could get the full amount.

from sanyo website;

Ultra quiet operation – 29dBA in dark mode

Illuminated remote control

Long lamp life – up to 3000 hours in dark mode
------------------------------------------------------------

this means anything up till. I cant believe you would get even 1500 hours out the bulb if you use the pj every day.
 
In the event of a temporary power failure, this is no more harmful than a normal shutdown (in fact slightly less so because the bulb is allowed to cool down gradually) providing the projector isn't restarted for a good 5 or 10 minutes.

"no more harmful"........ you may be right about the bulb (not sure myself tho')..... but definitely harmful to the insides of your projector, particularly the polarisers and the optics..... part of the reason for the fan running on is to continue to evacuate heat from inside the projector as the bulb cools. "Hot" restarts are guaranteed to dramatically shorten the life of the bulb, if they don't die on the spot.........

I cant believe you would get even 1500 hours out the bulb if you use the pj every day.

mine is used daily (to all intents and purpose..) and is going on 1300 hours............... without wishing to tempt fate I expect it to continue for some time to come.........


Have watched this thread unfold with interest......... I wouldn't be pleased if I had a bulb expire after 900 hours, once reasonable care is shown with the running regime of a projector, particularly to running temps and filter cleaning (including the hidden filters on the Z1).

It's reasonable to expect it to fulfil the "expected" life, but it's not guaranteed and that's the issue at the end of the day - plenty here running into 1 / 2000hours lamplife (more in some cases, Calibos for instance) with AE100s, main failure at these hours can be blue polariser, an easy (if fiddly) replacement.

By the same token, comparisons with domestic lighting bulbs from B&Q or TVs etc. are not meaningful - The technology used in TVs has been around for 60 or more years, and the physical size and strength of a tv tube, allied to the fact that it isn't operating at the temperatres a pj bulb has to endure, to say nothing of the production volumes makes a clear distinction in my mind between them.

As for light bulbs, the operating temps of the bulbs in projectors are way beyond the domestic circumstances, and the need to use unusual materials in construction, short production runs, and the applicability of patents to the technology used, in addition to the fact that the bulbs across different manufacturers and models are in the vast majority of cases different, all add up to the cost (and retail price) outcome.

It goes without saying that I hope Smurf gets an outcome which satisfies him.

Sean G.
 
I think the real problem here is the cost of the replacement bulbs.I think if bulbs were say between £50-£75 we would live with bulbs poping at anytime between 1000/3000 hrs.But having to pay £200/£300 for a bulb that could go anytime after a 90 day warranty really is a rip off.

I understand that the bulbs are not lightbulb type and have low production runs with specialist materials, but I think that as lower cost projector sales are really taking off now I am sure bulb production must also be on the increase.So why are replacement bulbs not comming down?
 
Sorry kramer, my heads not with it..... what idiot would ant a supply so he could keep his cinema running in the event of a power cut!? :D (me obviously!)

I would wonder what the real specs on the lamps are..... i presume they are achieved bu leaving a lamp running until it dies (i cant think of any easier fair lab test). Of course this doesnt apply to 99.99% of owners, particularly using for HC. I strongly doubt that they test machines as per their instructons to the buyer... ie. with power on and off and cooling periods. I suspect if they had a scheme where they ran it for 2 hours (average movie length), then powered down, gave it half an hour to cool down, then started it up again...... well the story would likely be very different. Its not even that this method is hard, but it would look bad on specs! In reality we will never know what the real world figures are since many owners will not reach the 3000 hours within a timescale they think unreasonable for the death of the machine. However, my feeling is that real world numbers are going to be more lik half the quoted.

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ad,

I agree that running for a number of hours with switch-off/cool down and then on again, representing typical representative use would be a good example - as for the ability of bulbs to produce such performance, have a look at this, the self-check screen from Calibos AE100 (taken from his own thread in the dim distant past !)

pic010.ipg



One can see here that the machine run-time is 3017 hours, the equivalent "high-mode" bulb usage is over 1200, and the number of switch-on cycles is 504 - that's about 6 hours per session on average........:rolleyes: Regulars here will know that Calibos AE100 suffered from fairly dramatic heatsoak damage................... but the lamp was still doin it's thing....................


Sean G.
 
Just picked up my new bulb from GM Services (£211 inc VAT), and I have a contact name at Sanyo to harrass:)

Was interesting seeing their workshop, projectors everywhere:eek:, was looking desperately for a lone Z2 lying around:D

The technician told me that the lamp in my machine hasn't just stopped working....it's shattered:eek: Let's see what Sanyo have to say (going to bypass the distributor entirely).

On a plus note though, I again echo that the repair centre have been superb and offered timely, fast and friendly service.
 
Smurfin

Was the £211 inc vat a special price for you or can anyone get them at that price from G M Services.If so can you post G M's address and phone numbers.

I hope I don't have to get a replacement bulb for my Z1 for a while but would like to know where I can get one from in advance.Nexnix want £225 + vat so GM offer a good saving.
 

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