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Snap crackle pop...after a year my Z1 has just died....

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by Smurfin, Feb 29, 2004.

  1. Smurfin

    Smurfin
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    I bought my Sanyo Z1 from Nexnix just after its first release in the UK, and after running up 900 hours on my Z1, it has been exhibiting some problems.

    To start with, in warm conditions (only when very warm) the fan exhibits the old speed-up syndrome (which was common with the first batch of Z1s), and then recently the bottom left hand corner of the image is discoloured and the geometry is slightly wrong. On a blue screen this is seen as a fading in brightness, and when projecting a white image the discolouration is seen as a yellowish tint (ugh).

    I've been meaning to send it back to Nexnix for ages now (it's 14 months old but has the 2 year warranty), but keep putting it off because it means being projectorless for 2-3 weeks.

    Then over the last few days I've noticed - and other people too - that the projector has needed calibrating again, due to the image being too dark. My original settings (Avia'd) had the contrast at 31 and brightness at 32, and I had to calibrate this to 36 brightness, and 35 contrast.

    Then today I had to recalibrate it AGAIN, which took the settings up to 38 brightness and 37 contrast. I hadn't really given it much thought, putting it down to the hours on the lamp, but then at under 1000 hours it's not even 30% into its life cycle, and as I was musing on this as I switched it on tonight for some X-box action....

    ......snap.....

    .......crackle.........

    DEAD.

    :rolleyes:

    After rechecking all of the cabling and switching it off and on again, I tried powering up again, and watched the lamp lens. Every time I go to power up, it crackles, the lamp light flicks in tandem with the crackling...then it switches off. The "LAMP" light is lit, but that's it.

    Has anyone else come across this?

    I can only assume that the bulb has gone (and I hope that's what the issue with the image problem was down to), but I'm slightly concerned that - as Nexnix have told me previously - the bulb isn't covered by the warranty .

    That's what I'm expecting to be told when I call them tomorrow, however I would argue that the item has to be fit for the purpose, and just 900 hours use of a £1300 video display unit is not fit for the purpose, despite what Sanyo state under their warranty terms.

    Nexnix offer good service imho, so it will be interesting to hear their response (I'm calling them first thing!), but in the meantime has anyone else come across this problem?

    cheers
    Matt
     
  2. theritz

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    Matt,

    Not good news......... I reckon the "snap crackle pop" was your bulb going (the progressive darkening points in this direction too....) The discolouration issue sounds like the blue polariser suffering, a common enough trait with LCD. I think I recall reading about pre-1000 hour lamp failures on the Z1 over on avsforum, but I could be wrong........ If you do have to get a new bulb, I'd still send it back to Sanyo to get the polariser sorted out. Heck, I'd send it back for the polariser and let them suffer the snap crackle etc.... you'd never know......;)

    Regards,

    Sean.
     
  3. Smurfin

    Smurfin
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    Cheers Sean. However, legally I doubt the manufacturer has a leg to stand on on the bulb issue....it simply ain't fit for the purpose.
     
  4. buns

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    Unfortunately the manufacturers have been standing on that leg for a long time and, to my knowledge, no one has successfully argued themselves a new bulb out of the bulb warranty time. But fingers crossed for you :)

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  5. Smurfin

    Smurfin
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    If you buy a normal TV and the screen develops a fault do the manufacturers hide behind their "screen warranty?"

    Similarly for a CRT or LCD Rear projection TV?

    Similarly for a PC monitor, plasma screen etc?

    Do you, as a consumer accept that the screen isn't an integral part of the product and thus a 90 warranty is unacceptable?

    Would you accept your TV screen dying after 900 hours usage, when you expect it to run for 3000?

    I think the answer to all of the above is likely to be "no." I don't mean to be argumentative, merely trying to compare the projector to other similar "display" devices.

    Regardless of a manufacturer's "warranty" they have "statutory" obligations, and this should include the lamp.

    I may be jumping the gun on all of this, but I won't accept being fobbed off with "oh sorry that's £330 for a new lamp because despite the original one giving up the ghost 30% of the way through it's average life, we ain't doing jack about it because it's out of the 90 day warranty".

    We'll see what happens:)
     
  6. Pete Delaney

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    Matt: This is important to all pj owners....please keep us informed with regards to your quest for a satisfactory outcome...

    Cheers Matt and all the best with your persuit...

    Pete...:smoke:
     
  7. AndyFov

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    The key word there is average. Perhaps most last 4000hrs, and you're the unlucky one who has brought the average down.

    If you can find any documentation from Sanyo which leads you into believing that you can reasonably expect 3000hrs use from the bulb, then I think you have a case, especially with the 2yr warranty. Call trading standards, and find out their view of the situation.

    Andy
     
  8. Smurfin

    Smurfin
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    The repair company is actually based in Milton Keynes, where I live, so I'm dropping off my projector with them later today. I'll wait until their "report" goes back to the retailer before making any enquiries. You may be right in what you say Andy, but imho I'm still covered by my statutory rights, and in that case "averages" don't even come into it (regardless of what Sanyo have or haven't stated).
     
  9. buns

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    I hope you are successful here smurf.... i totally agree with you. Basically what the warranty says is they will dont trust that a bulb will last longer than 90 days.... it is bad practice and i suspect the manufacturers of th projectors are suffering similarly because the bulb manufacturers dont cover the products either

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  10. Ekko Star

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    Best of luck Smurfin - outcome of this will be most intriguing for us all.

    However I fear the worst. Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't bulbs termed as "consumables" ?

    Average bulb life is only an indication, that can be dependant on so many other factors ie conditions on how the hours are accumulated. So I guess it makes it pretty hard to argue why the failure at a low amount of hours. I guess Sanyo think that if anything is likely to go wrong due to manufacturing defects it'll happen or show up in the first 90 days or early usage of hours.

    I think the case probably revolves around proving the bulb had a manufacturing defect rather than conditions of usage. Either way both things become pretty difficult to prove in the case of a bulb !

    However with the other problems you are experiencing with it, it may simply be more cost viable for them to replace the whole thing with a completey new machine especially at the Z1's current prices.

    Hope it works out for you.
     
  11. Dimmy

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    I was about to place a order for a Z1 :p.

    Hope I don't encounter these problems at 900 hours either, as I'd be using this thing A LOT.

    Good look in arguing yourself a new bulb matt. Seems like an impossible task to me. It's 'Unfair', that Sanyo can't guarantee these things'll work for more than 30 days (Imagine it going after 31 days!). BUt I imagine if they were to replace every bulb which went inside two years they'd be losing a little bit more money than is desirable.

    n.b. - I phoned NexNix, the man who answered was - like the man at Hyperfi - speaking about four times faster than the human ear can listen.
     
  12. Synchronicity

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    Out of curiosity when you get a replacement bulb,does it have to be a Sanyo bulb or just a particular type of 5000 watt bulb or whatever they are?
     
  13. Dimmy

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    Has to be a proprietry Sanyo bulb designed especially for the projector :rolleyes:.

    If only it were as simple as having generic bulbs for LCD projectors...
     
  14. Synchronicity

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    Dam,I was afraid of that,no chance of getting some spares off the rear of an articulated then:mad:
     
  15. Quatermass

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    Yep, no doubt if they were to guarantee the minimum hours of the bulb the price of projectors would go up – although I have never understood why these bulbs are so expensive in the first place – solid uranium filaments? :zonked:
     
  16. buns

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    If the machines cost more in the first place, they could probably guarantee better.... this may just be something that comes down to our lust for cheaper prices

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  17. Kramer

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    Matt,

    I understand your frustration - I'd be well peeved myself in your situation.

    However, lamps/bulbs are consumable items & prone to premature failure. You were aware of the 90 day warranty on the lamp when you purchased & still you chose to buy. If you purchased a new lamp tomorrow, you'd still only have a 90 day warranty with it :(

    As for the legalities of the situation, I'd say that you don't have a leg to stand on regarding the lamp failure. 14 months is a long way from 90 days. Fit for the purpose etc. is all well & good but does not constitute a "get out of jail free card" for every eventuality.

    Is a projector destined for the home cinema market fit for its purpose with 3/4/5 dead/stuck pixels? Most would argue not but these are usual manufacturers specifications.

    Fingers crossed you get a result but IMO that's all you can hope for - some luck.

    :smoke:
     
  18. Smurfin

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    Actually I wasn't aware of it, and was surprised when nexnix told me this. And sorry, I don't accept that a bulb is a consumable item and "prone to premature" failure - that's a copout on the manufacturers part imho; that wouldn't be considered acceptable with ANY other form of video display, so why should it be so with projectors?

    I'm saying this and they might sort it out for me, in which case I'll be a happy man, but I still think manufacturers policies on projectors are somewhat whiffy. (and I wouldn't accept ANY projector with a SINGLE dead pixel).
     
  19. Ekko Star

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    Not sure if it has to do with the price we pay ? IMO we are getting quite a good deal.

    The products have advanced so much, add to that falling technology prices and we as consumers have also benefitted from the increased reliability on offer in these products.

    We are now getting circa £1000, serious performance home cinema PJ's with long life lamps, something that was unheard of only 2 years ago !

    To put everything into perspective, who would have expected upto 5000 hour lamp life to be offered in budget PJ's just over a year ago ? IIRC 1000-2000 hours was usually all that was expected of them before then.

    It's a bulb at the end of the day, albeit an expensive one, and that has to classified as a consumable.

    Still wish you luck though !
     
  20. Smurfin

    Smurfin
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    Long life? 900 hours is not long life...
     
  21. Messiah

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    Would you take a failed 60W light bulb back to B&Q (or wherever) after 900 hours usage. I guess not. Personally, I don't see the difference and couldn't even begin to complain to a mfr after that amount of usage.

    Everyone to their own though :) Good luck.
     
  22. buns

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    its a crock..... we all know that 95% of projector flaws within a 2 year period are going to be lamp related.... so what the reality is is that the 2 year warranty means nothing in almost all instances.

    This is an expensive part of a projector, without it, it is nothing. What is a car without an engine? what is an amp without a transformer? Its a total **** take, but unfortunately we are stuck until someone takes the battle to them.

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  23. -Jay-

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    No you wouldn't but then B&Q dont say you should get 1000/2000 hours from it do they?
     
  24. Kramer

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    Having said all that, I had my HS10 "serviced" just before Christmas. My m8 who originally sourced it for me took care if it :).

    There was a slight flicker from the lamp & it was noticeably dimmer than it should have been.

    Got it back a few weeks later (it went to Sony UK AFAIK) with a new lamp. Been perfect since :smashin:

    Total cost = £0 :p

    He is a good m8 of mine though & in the trade. I've been dealing with him for probably well over 10 years.

    There's always hope :)
     
  25. Ekko Star

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    How many power on/off cycles has it had, do you leave it in standby, what are the conditions like in your room, is your power supply clean, do you run PJ for long continuous periods etc etc......shall I continue ?

    The life of your lamp is dependent on many things and also on the combination of those things.

    I had my AE100 for two years and I racked 270 hours on it, you've done 900 on your Z1 in a year. If you were a manufacturer how would you then calculate average life and usage ? They simply state UPTO 5000 hours, which I personally think is a very optimistic number anyway.

    When you look at a car and they claim MPG figures they are based on ideal driving conditions at a steady rate of speed. No one in the real world expects to drive like that, and your consumption will be influenced by the way you drive as well. Identical engines will not give the same performance anyway.

    It maybe a misleading average to state, but in the real world there is no such thing as a real average. So they give you a figure formulated on a standardised basis for you to be able to draw a comparison.

    I guess your argument would be how much you've deviated from that standardised basis. Kinda difficult thing to evaluate or prove, which is why you'll need a bit of luck to win them over.
     
  26. chilly

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    The sale of goods act states that goods should be fit for their purpose, under English Law this can be upheld for a period of six years regardless of the maunufacturers warranty period, however if the manufacturer states a specific timescale regarding individual parts, especially consumables then this clause forms part of the contract of sale, with projectors the life expectancy of a bulb is always specified in terms of up to 2000, 3000, 5000 hours or whatever, from this point if the bulb has provided 900 hours of use but exceeded its warranty period then the life of the bulb is within guidelines ( 900 hours should be taken as up to 3000 hours ), this would be the same whether the bulb had given 100 hours or 2999 hours, there is no argument the manufacturer is not liable.
     
  27. Smurfin

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    So you think it's acceptable to shell out £300 for every 900 or so hours of usage? Your comparison with a lightbulb is ridiculous, they aren't on anywhere near the same level.

    If you want a comparison, look at a TV. Now that's more like it...
     
  28. harrisuk

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    Its sucks that the bulb went after 900 hours. Obviously it is well known that lamps are not convered by the warranty but that dosnt mean you cant kick off about it.

    You Can always try threatening them with small claim court. Its up to them to prove it is the bulb that has gone and not a fault with the projector that caused the bulb to go.....

    It Dosnt cost alot and it will cost them alot more than a new bulb just to show up. I have worked at retail and in my expereince 90% of the time the retailer will fold as soon as they get the letter (especially if it is a relateively low value repair / replacement such as this). Worth a try if you feel that strongly about it :mad:
     
  29. The Nightfly

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    What's the definition of a consumable item ? Probably something along the lines of: "any component that is expected to require replacement over the lifetime of the product."

    So a bulb can be both a critical component AND a consumable item. And if its a consumable item then the warranty period specific to that item (and not the projector as a whole) applies.

    It's unfortunate and I would hate for the same thing to happen to me but that's the agreement we enter into when we buy the product.

    Allan
     
  30. Kramer

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    Personally, no :D.

    They're both bulbs/lamps though so I can see where Neil is coming from. I was going to post the same analogy myself but didn't.....

    You can argue that it was not suitable for its intended use but expecting any & all manufacturers to replace a failed lamp out of warranty (90 days in this case) is unrealistic.

    TVs are undoubtedly more reliable but don't have high lumen lamps fitted, run at high temperatures etc.

    Tough situation facing a £300+ repair bill but if you're not lucky with the repairers, that's exactly what you'll have to do.

    Once again, best of luck - fingers crossed for you :smashin:
     

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