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SkyHD confirmation: it's DVi-HDCP/HDMi - or nothing!

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs' started by peezee, Jan 11, 2005.

  1. peezee

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    Too lazy at this late time to search the forum for a similar topic, plus never created a new topic meself before so I thought what the heck :blush:, so here goes:

    http://www.homecinemachoice.com/cgi-bin/shownews.php?id=7347

    I guess it's about time we stop speculating about whether or not Sky is serious about HDCP protection and digital connection. Though they're not swearing to G.d they won't change their mind anytime in the future, I think at some point you need to establish ground rules and stick to them.

    Note that, not surprisingly (to me anyway), this article talks about HDMi as being its "*primary* means of connecting to an HD display", and not the _only_ means. This fully makes sense to me, I think at some point they'll only provide these new STB's to new customers for instance, such that the STB's need to be able to service both HD and non-HD ready TV sets.
    There's also the possibility that HDTV broadcasts might be available at SD resolution (downrez'ed) via an analogue output (at least they don't explicitely say it won't).

    The quest for HDTV-ready flat screens goes on - and forget about analogue (Component/RGB/VGA) or non-HDCP compliant DVi connections, these are just NOT going to be able to do the job.

    Well, not via "legal means" anyway... :rolleyes:
     
  2. peezee

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    Also just found this piece of news: (from last Friday)

     
  3. MAW

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    This is a story from the same sky press release debated here. It's quicker to go straight to Sky's press office section on the web than wait for HCC to print it,
     
  4. peezee

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    You're certainly right MAW, but seeing the number of posts here questionning the validity and reality of BSkyB decisions and resolve on HDTV I thought it would make sense to "clarify" things.

    Not that it will stop some posters here to continue casting doubts over the requirement for a digital connection on yr flat screen in order to enjoy HD from Sky, or BluRay/HD-DVD, etc... :rolleyes:
     
  5. Nick_UK

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    I don't think there has ever been a dispute over how HDTV signals would be carried from the sat box to the TV - it will be digital. The confusion reigns over whether the signals will be 50Hz or 60Hz. If Sky launch a 50Hz only service, it will ensure that a large proportion of plasma owners (including myself) will not be able to display the pictures. I'm not totally sure that Sky are aware of this, but would expect that they have done some market research, and would want to offer the service to a large a market base as possible. Notice that one of the 42" plasma packages presently being sold by Sky cannot do 50Hz :rolleyes:
     
  6. peezee

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    Well, there's been a bunch of posts suggesting either that HDTV would be available via Component or that Sky were not going to go ahead with their plans, hence my answer. Again, no-one can tell if they will actually carry forward these exact plans (until we can see the STB that is) but this should be the assumption today to base our decisions upon, esp. after yesterday's confirmation from BSkyB.

    As for 60Hz broadcast - I'm 99% sure that Sat broadcast will be done at 50Hz (which is the entire video production workflow refresh rate), however there's a slight (very slight imo but we'll see) chance that the SkyHD STB will offer frame rate conversion. If anything, there exist video processors that can do that anyway, pretty expensive today, will get cheaper in 2006. And again, frame rate conversion has it own issues - but at least you get a watchable picture.

    Anyway, one thing's almost for sure: purchasing a 2000+£ flat screen today without any digital connection means facing the risk of quick obsolescence - and therefore questionnable "resellability" - in the very near future, with upscaling DVD players with HDMi output already available today, HD DVD expected by year end, and Sky HDTV to debut around early 2006.
     
  7. Nick_UK

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    I'm not going to be losing any sleep over it. There simply will not be enough HDTV material available for quite a few years. Take a look at Europe's HDTV Service It's backed by some really big names, and broadcasts across the whole of Europe.

    And what delights await, once you've shelled out for the sat box, subscription, and a Pioneer plasma ? Well, here it is.....

    10:00 A day at Balaton Lake Trends: Cross-Country
    10:15 Jamelia: See it in a boy's eyes Music: Stage
    10:20 A day in Antwerp Trends: Cross-Country
    10:30 Marco Borsato: Laat me gaan Music: Stage
    10:40 A day in Barcelona Trends
    10:50 Milk Inc: I don't care Music: Stage
    10:55 A day in Budapest Trends: Cross-Country
    11:15 Special D Music: Stage
    11:25 A day in Bruges Trends: Cross-Country
    11:35 Natalia: Risin' Music: Stage
    11:45 A day in Copenhagen Trends
    11:55 Novastar: Rome Music: Stage
    12:00 A day in Bruges...A City of Arts and Crafts Trends: Cross-Country
    12:05 Kate Ryan: Medlye Music: Stage
    12:15 A day in Bruges...Divine Beauty Trends: Cross-Country
    12:20 Leki and guests Music: Stage
    12:30 A Day in Vienna Trends: Cross-Country
    12:45 Marco Borsato: binnen Music: Stage
    12:55 A day in Lisbon Trends
    13:05 slipknot: duality Music: Stage
    13:10 A day in Bruges...On the waterfront Trends: Cross-Country
    13:15 Within Temptation: Stand my ground Music: Stage
    13:25 A day in Budapest Trends: Cross-Country
    13:45 Zornik: goodbye Music: Stage
    13:55 A Day in Vienna Trends: Cross-Country
    14:10 Pierre Boulez conducts Berliner Philharmonic Music: Symphony
    14:20 A day at Balaton Lake Trends: Cross-Country
    14:35 Moussorgsky Music
    14:40 A day in Antwerp Trends: Cross-Country
    14:50 Clouseau: Ik, jij, hij of zij Music: Stage
    15:00 A day in Barcelona Trends
    15:10 DJ Frank FT Vic Krishna: Nu nu Music: Stage
    15:15 A day in Budapest Trends: Cross-Country
    15:35 Flip Kowlier: In de fik Music: Stage
    15:40 A day in Bruges Trends: Cross-Country
    15:50 Freestylers: Get a life Music: Stage
    15:55 A day in Copenhagen Trends
    16:00 The Desert Speaks (2/13) Xplore
    16:30 Heavyweight Heroes part III Sports: Dare
    19:00 Discoveries Spain Castles, Cathedrals Trends: Cross-Country
    A travel program that sheds a light on Spain’s cathedrals, castles and Roman ruins.
    19:52 Jamelia: DJ Music: Stage
    20:00 FFF: Paris Spring 2005 Ep. 1, part 1 Trends: Catwalk
    20:15 FFF: Paris Spring 2005 Ep. 1, part 2 Trends: Catwalk
    20:30 FFF: Paris Spring 2005 Ep. 1, part 3 Trends: Catwalk
    20:45 FFF: Paris Spring 2005 Ep. 1, part 4 Trends: Catwalk
    21:00 Luxemburg Philharmonic Orchestra Live in Concert Music: Symphony
    22:55 Europe Concert: Berliner Philharmonic Music: Symphony
    23:25 The Desert Speaks (2/13) Xplore


    Riveting stuff, eh ? I don't know if anyone remembers the Trade Test Transmissions which preceded the BBC2 625 line transmissions, but I would think that they were probably were more interesting :laugh: Classical concerts in HDTV ? Why ???? :confused:
     
  8. Flimber

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    This is standard procedure to attract a certain kind of buyer/early adopter. Think of early Laserdisc and DVD titles (and even CD). Initial catalogues had alot of classical performances. Yer average Gramophone reader might not be a millionaire but more of them have more money to spend on new technology than your average Kerrang numbskull.

    Mike.
     
  9. ChrisA

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    So all this leads to an obvious question, especially following on from Peezee's point about obsolescence and "resellability" of the current crop - would any of today's screens be compatible? Does any manufacture ship a DVI/HDMI with HDCP compatibility?

    Regards

    Chris
     
  10. Nick_UK

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    Compatability with what ? Euro1080 uses 50Hz, and Pioneer do plasmas that are 50Hz capable. But will Sky use 50Hz or 60Hz when it launches HD in 2006 ? Many assume 50, but I wouldn't put too much money on it.
     
  11. hornydragon

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    Piooneer 434/5 and 504/5 as well as NEC VR5 XM3 panels and Some LG's........
     
  12. Billyfergus

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    Horneydragon, can you advise me precisely which LG's would be compatible.

    Investing in a new screen this week.
     
  13. edinburgh160

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    Hi all,

    I take it the Hitachi 42pd5200 will take the SkyHD, as it has a DviD input plus is HDCP compliant ? Hope so, as I was told it would when I bought it

    Cheers all
    TIA
     
  14. peezee

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    Nick_UK, first off pretty funny stuff indeed...

    HOWEVER - Euro1080 (now HD1 btw) is merely an HDTV "technology show case", it has strictly NOTHING to do with what we'll be able to get when *real* HDTV starts.

    Well, I can only talk for my country anyway, but here in France TPS Star and Canal+ will start HDTV broadcast towards the e/o this year, and those are pay channels specialized in movies, sports and all sorts of documentaries (nature, ...). And I'm talking about very recent, first-time on TV blockbuster type movies, and live first League, Champion's league, and French cup footie, the real stuff...

    As a matter of fact, "TPS Star" just announced that they'll be ready to broadcast in MPEG4 format in May 2005 - yup, that's just 4 months away, actually they just sent a request to the "CSA" (the french authority for media co's) in order to be allowed to broadcast as soon as May... <btw this is regular SDTV, not HDTV... yet>

    I would suppose this is the kind of broadcasts Sky's referring to in terms of "Premium premium Service"... don't you think?
     
  15. edinburgh160

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    I take it that hor Hi Def broadcasts we will have to pay extra to Sky then ?
    neverending !!!
     
  16. MAW

    MAW
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    Hitachis are not 720/50 compatible.
     
  17. hornydragon

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    not necassarily many plasmas have HDCP DVi (panny etc do) but dont support 720p @ 50hz but Hitachi dont support this either (1080i @ 50Hz) you need to hope the sky STB allows you to select 1080i or 720p outputs
    Billy fergus the PX11 is (i think ask GT) but is only an SD panel there is the PY10 (rare in uk that is HD) Pioneer or NEC is best bet
     
  18. edinburgh160

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    surely Sky should try and make its broadcasts available to as many as possible, without compromising too much in quality.
    I'd be really peed off if this isnt compatible.
     
  19. peezee

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    Ok, this has been done to death - anyway the Hitachi PD5200's do have a DVI-HDCP input and can take any HDTV format... *except* for 720p50 - which happens to be the primary format of choice for SkyHD as per their recent announcement (and confirmation :D ).

    I'm guessing, for a number of reasons, that the SkyHD STB will allow users to switch indifferently b/w 720p50 and 1080i50 (which the PD5200's do accept), regardless of the incoming video broadcast format.
    <note: this is an "educated guess", not a fact. Who knows for sure...? Well I don't anyway.>

    If they don't allow such switching, then you'll have to get a box that does just that, it's called a Video Processor and can do miracles with picture quality (in addition to 720p <-> 1080i format switching), however it's quite costly at present - but we can hope it'll be reasonably priced comes the time we need it (for those who will indeed need them).
     
  20. edinburgh160

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    thanks peezee , sorry if i've repeated earlier thread. will just have to keep everything crossed then :)
     
  21. hornydragon

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    through the nose mate!!!!!
     
  22. peezee

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    no problemo mate, just trying to give an accurate and complete picture of what we have today and what to expect in the future (with some guess work attached) - not a strongly biased view towards such or such plasma display... ;)

    Btw, as you can read elsewhere, the Pioneers, NEC and all last gen LG plasma screens appear to be fully compatible with all and any HDTV format.

    Expect to see more of this in 2005 from many flat screen manuf's, with new gen of plasma/LCD displays ALL including either HDMi or DVI-HDCP (and in some case, both) connectivity and full HTDV support! :lesson:
     
  23. Neil F Holland

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    Nick,

    Why do you reckon that Sky will broadcast at 60Hz?

    Neil
     
  24. peezee

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    Nick, from yr signature it looks like you own a PD5300 plasma; AFAIK these don't have a DVI/HDMi input available for use (well, there's a DVI input but it's taken by the media box), therefore you won't be able to connect the SkyHD STB to yr screen anyway... isn't that right? :confused:
     
  25. grahamtriggs

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    Yes, the PX11 takes everything thrown at it so far (Denon 2910 - selectable between 480/576p, 720p and 1080i, 50hz and 60hz frequencies).

    The PY10 is not particularly rare in the UK - a few dealers have them listed, although it is not common to see them on demo. The only place that I have actually physically seen one is Harrods.

    What is rare is the PX12 - the PY10's ugly sister.
     
  26. MAW

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    What's really odd about the whole sky fiasco is that their own 'HD ready' plasma is NOT compatible with their own press release. You would have thought, wouldn't you? Is this a case of the left hand and the right hand, or do they simply not care? The 32" on their web site has no available digital port.
     
  27. phil5743

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    I know I'm clutching at straws here but the press release says "primary" means of connection rather than "only"
     
  28. Leigh_1973

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    it had HDMI as primary, i would expect DVI to be the secondary.
     
  29. MAW

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    It won't have 2 digital outputs, copy protection is the issue here. Component or VGA will be secondary, but with copy protected content, as things currently stand, analogue outputs are disabled when the HDCP is active. There, in a nutshell, is the whole issue. Assuming the press release is true, and Sky don't change their minds 3 more times, etc.
     
  30. phil5743

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    Perhaps there might be an option to view older/less high profile material via component in the same way that TCM doesn't require a movie subscription?
     

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