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Sky+ Recent Update Problems

Discussion in 'Sky Digital TV Forum' started by rogerh, Oct 13, 2005.

?
  1. Yes - Every time a software update fails on 2 or more features

    24.5%
  2. Yes. Whenever the software fails due to an update.

    46.9%
  3. Yes - But allow them 28 days to fix it first.

    24.5%
  4. No - Unless it completely stops working

    4.1%
  1. rogerh

    rogerh
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    There are considerable problems with the latest software update to Sky+ boxes. (See various threads - some getting heated!).
    My own mark 1 box has all sorts of problems it didn't have such as disc capacity errors, recording unwanted programmes, live pause not functioning properly etc. etc.
    I feel that Sky should compensate it's customers by refunding the £10 monthly fee it collects for the operation of Sky+ which they they are clearly failing to provide since the upgrade.
    Do you agree?
     
  2. Nick_UK

    Nick_UK
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    As long as the box fulfils its basic functions (i.e. produces a good picture, sound, and if the record/playback function works), then I'm happy. Giving Sky 28 days to fix the problems is unrealistic, since it takes quite a long time to test the new version, and even then you can have problems (like what we are currently experiencing !). Sky had that version on test for 6 months.
     
  3. rogerh

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    Sorry Nick but I don't agree. Would Sky give us (eg the other side of the contract) more than 28 days on the basis it takes a long time to test?
    Surely if they do test properly then we THE CUSTMERS should expect the service we pay Sky for to be provided as per our agreement and the box should work. After all we don't have the choice of being upgraded. If we did I'm sure there are many who would not have wanted the recent pin number function change - after all not all of us have young children and of those that have I believe the majority are responsible parents who would rather have their Sky+ working properly and supervise their own children without nannying by Sky.
    Updates carried out should not be released without proper testing. It's not acceptable to release, what is at best, beta software and then assume the customers will do the testing.
    We PAY - Sky DELIVERS?????
     
  4. fortean

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    Sky should be able to fix a well reported bug within 28 days. They should also give users the option to upgrade their software, and the option to return to a previous version of their software after an upgrade.
     
  5. rogerh

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    Absolutely!!! I entirely agree.
    Why are the so called leaders in Digital Satellite TV Broadcasting for the UK special? Why should they be forgiven for taking money and not delivering what we pay for? Suppliers of other services are expected to deliver and so should Sky be.
    To add another thought - is this really the way to treat PAYING customers when FREESAT is to launch next year?
    After all we can now buy other PVRs and receive a range of Free to View channels which already include BBC and ITV and may (hopefully) include Channels 4 & 5 when Freesat launches.
    Not everybody is so disatified with the current picture quality as to want to shell out more and more for HD on a few channels. Sky could come to regret the lack of care for existing customers when it comes to want to sell us HD
    :cool:
     
  6. Roger G Cam

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    Last Summer - 2004 - there were two updates in July. They killed my box. Several other people in "another forum" also had boxes die on them. I engaged Sky in correspondence.

    Sky Customer Care - August 2004

    "I've contacted our Sky plus technical team today and they've advised that when we complete our software downloads to Sky plus systems, this doesn't cause any kind of damage."

    There is the problem. I was able to point them at a whole group of people posting identical symptoms within 48 hours of each other but they wouldn't consider that their software download could cause problems.

    Look at the 160. 10 months with a live bug.

    The only thing that can change Sky's attitude is competition. Time Cable and the DTT proposition got cracking.

    Roger
     
  7. Nick_UK

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    The problem is that when you fix one bug, you can create two more. Another problem is that there isn't just one type of Sky+ box, there's lots. There's about 6 different makes/models of Sky+ box, and there's different versions of the operating system within the types of box. That's why the "bugs" have affected different boxes in different ways, and some boxes have not been affected at all. My own box only has a problem if I use live pause on any of the movie channels, and then goes haywire on everything else if I do, once I've used it. After a power recycle, it's quite happy as long as I don't pause on the movie channels. Other people have had problems to a greater or lesser degree.

    The new firmware was announced in March this year, but it wasn't released until the end of September. The old software revision was 1.28d, and the new one was 1.30q, so as you can see, there were quite a few unreleased versions that they rejected in the meantime.
     
  8. John

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    And besides , I don't pay for the functionality of my box , what do I get ?

    John
     
  9. gavan

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    Imagine expecting the box to keep working as advertised eh? Us consumers can be sooooo unreasonable when buying a service :rolleyes:

    Bottom line - the box is supposed to provide a feature set. If a firmware upgrade breaks that feature set, as the last one did, then either they fix it within a reasonable period of time or they refund the consumer some dosh.


    Gav
     
  10. gavan

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    Absolutely. Sky get away with it because there isn't really another service that can match what they offer (Hundreds of channels of entertainment, movies and exclusive sports).

    If cable and DTT improve their offerings, Sky will start having to think very carefully about messing consumers around with defective products.


    Gav
     
  11. rogerh

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    I assume that you're on the higher subscription deal where Sky cease to add on the £10 monthly function costs?
    In that case, why shouldn't they reduce your monthly charge by £10?
    What's wrong with Sky stepping into the bold new world (for them) of proper customer service and compensating you for the service they undertook to provide you with - like you would expect from any decent company?
    After all they lured you in to having Sky+/Higher subscriptions by offering you something which they are failing to deliver.

    As to the point made by "Nick - UK", I appreciate that the software version numbers indicate changes made before release, however we don't know what the numbering system protocols are and what they signify, and more to the point I don't see why showing they have had several goes at getting it right should justify releasing it when it's not working properly!
    I appreciate that everyone is falible, but the current level of "service" CANNOT be justified especially when the customer is expected to continue to pay a fee for something that Sky is failing to deliver :mad:
     
  12. Daddy k

    Daddy k
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    simple as this as far as im concerned:
    WE entered an agreement with sky to pay for their services for a min of 12 months. as a sky + customer we also agreed to pay for the sky+ service in onje form or another either by the £10 add on or by paying for the box.

    BUT

    they also entered a contract with us to provide us with their services for 12 months and as far as im concerned theyve broke theyre own contract as with all the probs were only getting theyre services 80% of the time.

    i think they should reduce our plans by £10 a month if you pay the additional fee or by £5 a month if you have premium channels rather than the +fee. until the issue is resolved /or dramatically reduced.

    it wont happen im sure as they have no reason to worry about cust service as
    1. were tied in legally so what can we do but put up with it.
    2. theres no competition or anyone looking after the customers ie ntl etc. its just not a customer focused market.

    i was a huge fan of sky+ before the upgrade and couldnt recomend it any more even if i tried. but this upgrade has really rocked the boat.

    and the cheekiest thing is after your warranty lets say ur +box packs up we have to pay £200+ for new box. and call out fees for dish probs etc.

    thats the equivelant of our water companies charging us if the main pipe line busts. and not repairing untill we pay lol.

    but despite all this i will stay with sky lol what other choice have i got, and they know it and love it.
    but fix the problem and ill love sky again
     
  13. JBaum

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    Precise legal issues aside, it would be alot better if Sky simply admitted the fault and refunded subscriptions for the duration while they fix it, assuming anyone there knows how to fix it......

    I am prepared to believe that Sky are neither indifferent nor incompetent, but they have to prove it, especially when we're shelling out this kind of money annually and signed up to a service which is suddenly deeply flawed.

    Julian.
     
  14. Nick_UK

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    Have you ever subscribed to NTL ? Sounds like you haven't ! :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

    There's one big difference between Sky and cable companies - you can get Sky wherever you live in the UK (as long as you can see the satellite). My home town has had NTL cable for about 6 years now - and nobody can watch it because the cable coming into the town terminates in a little green box at the town boundary, and hasn't gone anywhere since. NTL arrived in a blaze of glorious publicity about six years ago, and since then, not one house has been cabled for TV, phones, or anything else !

    Please don't talk to me about Sky monopolies - without Sky, I would still be watching 4 TV channels. Sky don't "cherry pick" customers, and only serve the most lucrative areas, like the cable companies do. Of course, it may well have something to do with the fact that Sky were able and willing to invest in their product for many years until it finally went into profit. Something you can't say about the cable companies.

    :rotfl: Now, please stop the jokes, my sides can't stand it :rotfl:
     
  15. Nick_UK

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    Well, that's not strictly true, is it ? The truth is that the majority have not had substantial problems with Sky. Some people have now confirmed that their boxes have "settled down" and are not having problems any more, and many others (like myself) have only experienced minor problems.

    Have you been in touch with Sky ? Some people have had concessions on their Sky subscriptions to compensate them, but Sky won't know that you are having problems unless you tell them. People keep going on about contracts and legal rights, but a fundamental part of any contract is to give the other side time to rectify problems before taking legal action, otherwise you get nowhere.
     
  16. gavan

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    See thread " Append your name below if you have Live pause problems since the update " - now running to ELEVEN PAGES of AVforums members who are having problems. :rolleyes:


    From the many posts of people experiencing problems, quite a few report that Sky have denied everything. Where people have got concessions from Sky, it's typically been after many arguments or because they have threatened to terminate their sub.


    Gav
     
  17. gavan

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    What does any of that little rant have to do with my point that Sky are able to mess people about because they don't have effective competition :confused:

    If you're so hacked off with NTL go start a thread about it in the appropriate forum, stop using it as an excuse to defend the actions of Sky in this matter.


    Gav


    Gav
     
  18. Nick_UK

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    Maybe because you said "If cable and DTT improve their offerings, Sky will start having to think very carefully about messing consumers around with defective products." NTL is cable isn't it, so very relevant !

    How can I be hacked off with something which (for me) doesn't exist ?

    Who's defending Sky ? Just because I'm prepared to give them a little time to put things right, and not continually falling out of my pram like you are, doesn't mean that I'm defending them. It means that I'm behaving like an adult, and not like a spoilt child :suicide:
     
  19. gavan

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    Hmmm, have I logged onto Usenet by mistake? I think you'd like it a lot more there, Nick, since you seem to be looking for a slagging match.



    Gav
     
  20. Nick_UK

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    I'm not doing that at all. It takes two to tango. You were quite correct when you said that there were several pages of people who were having problems with their Sky boxes. However, there seems to be only one or two who seem to be making a big fuss, and not willing to give Sky the chance to fix them.
     
  21. MacReady

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    I have no doubt you include me in that 'one or two'.

    Nick, if it is not bothering you and you think we are all acting like children throwing our toys out of the pram then please feel free not to get involved in any of the discussions on here about the ongoing Sky problems.....if you are happy with the service then why not sit back with a smile on your face and let us rant about it instead of continuously trying to incite arguments on the subject!

    I would say you are in the distinct minority when it comes to people who are happy with putting up with the current problems.
     
  22. Nick_UK

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    Has anyone ever told you two that forums are for people to argue both sides of an argument ?

    No-one is disputing that there are problems with some Sky+ boxes, but maybe some of us have realised that jumping up and down, stamping our feet, and ranting endlessly on about it, isn't going to get it fixed any faster ?
     
  23. MacReady

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    And by 'some of us' you mean you!

    Read through all the threads and you will see that quite a few people have either contacted Sky about this or tried to contact them and not been able to. Some have not bothered as they have realised that they can get more reliable information about the current situation from posts on here than they can from Sky Technical support lines !!!

    There is no argument Nick...Sky are NOT providing a service we are paying for as customers and we are saying that this is not on! You, on the other hand, are saying you are quite willing to let them do this for another week or two...well fair enough, that is your choice and I am not going to dispute it but you seem to think you have the right to come on here and tell us we are all wrong for being angry about this and wanting something done about it and for everyone to agree with you :confused:

    I am sick and tired of getting into these discussions with you to be honest Nick as you seem intent on flaming everyone who has a bad word to say about Sky and their business practices.
     
  24. MacReady

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    Oh and by the way Nick, if you read my emails to Sky in the other thread you will see that my main issue with all of this is the terrible customer services that have been provided during this fault period.

    I have voted to give them 28 days in the poll above as I think that is fair...but only if Sky had actually bothered to let it's paying subscribers know about the problem!!!
     
  25. Nick_UK

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    "Flaming you" ? Don't think so. You must lead a very sheltered life if you think I'm flaming you, just because I voice an opinion different to yours.
     
  26. gavan

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    If you're happy to wait until Sky get around to fixing the plethora of problems surrounding their recent dogs-mess of an 'upgrade' then that's your right.

    However, antagonising those of use who chose to complain about it in the hope that customer pressure induces Sky to fix the problem faster, is not on in a civilised forum.

    No-one is "throwing their toys out of the pram" to quote one of your favourite 'debating' phrases .. people are venting their dissatisfaction at Sky's behaviour. I don't think that anyone could make a reasonable argument that Sky are somehow in the right here - they released a flawed update that has impacted the quality of service received by many of their users. They haven't done anything so far to rectify it and they continue to tell people who call their national-rate 'helpline' that nothing is wrong.

    Only by 'throwing your toys out of the pram' and threatening to cancel your subscription, can you hope to get some redress out of them (judging from the posts people have made here).


    By the way, regarding your comments about giving them time to fix it, here is some 'insider' info that I have received from my sources. Take it with a pinch of salt as I'm not prepared to divulge any more about where I got it from or do anything to prove it's authenticity:

    There are no plans to fix the 'live pause' bug. Sky know that there are problems with some boxes using that facility. There will be a new update rolling out in November but this IS NOT designed to fix the bug. The earliest you can hope for a proper bugfix is Feb/Mar next year. The Nov update will remove the Sky+ Planner from the main menu (option 0) and place it onto the green 'softkey'. The only thing we can hope for is that somehow the Nov update might be inadvertantly better - they have no idea what screwed up live pause.



    Gav
     
  27. gavan

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    He actually said "you seem intent on flaming everyone who has a bad word to say about Sky and their business practices".

    ... As in your snide comments such as: 'throwing toys out of the pram', 'stomping feet', 'behaving like an adult, and not like a spoilt child', accusations of 'Thief' which you have thrown out at people on these forums who have complained about Sky.

    Maybe you don't realise how antagonistic your language is. It certainly comes across as an attempt to start a slanging match - something best left in the realms of UseNet.



    Gav
     
  28. Nick_UK

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    Well, you are the only one who seems intent to start a slanging match, and you are going to be disappointed, because I'm not going to.

    Why don't we ask a moderator if he thinks that discussions about defrauding Sky out of their subscriptions is an allowable topic ? Since you don't think that this is theft, then why not call in a third-party opinion ? I'll be quite happy to do that, if you want to continue that argument. If you're not happy to follow Sky's T & C's, maybe you won't want to respect the forum's T & C's either ?
     
  29. gavan

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    I expect you'll continue to antagonise those who complain loudest about Sky+ problems as you have been doing for weeks.


    Well, why don't you ask then, Nick? I happen to think it's perfectly OK to complain about Sky's policy of charging a tenner a month for people (without 2 premium packages) to use the basic recording functionality of Sky+ boxes that they have bought. I also happen to think that it's out of order to slam another Forums user for attempting to perpetrate theft, just for asking if there was some way around it.

    Also, whilst the mod is at it he might want to review your history of posts relating to this issue. You've continually used antagonistic language against people you disagreed with. You particularly to like to accuse people complaining about the rubbish service they have received as "Throwing their toys out of the pram" or similar.

    You seem determined to turn this into a Usenet-style slanging match of 'you vs people who complain about the Sky+ problems' and I for one a, getting tired of feeding your flames. I know that I certainly don't come here to read protracted arguments.


    Gav
     
  30. gavan

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    The've had their 28 days already. No sign of the live pause clearing up and no plans from them to do anything proactive to fix it until next spring. Our only hope is that the Nov. update will co-incidentally fix whatever went wrong.


    Gav
     

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