Sky q mini and devolo - devolo plug is saying it is internet connection

fatboydel

Standard Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2012
Messages
14
Reaction score
0
Points
3
I am using 2 devolo plugs to connect the SKY hub to a a SKY Q mini box. I use a number of devolo plugs for other network connections. The master devolo plug always retains the internet access, until I plug in the SKY Q Mini connection, then for some reason the devolo network moves the internet connection to that plug. This messes up a number of connections.

Does anyone know why it would do this?
 
Could you develop what you mean by "moves the Internet..?"

Things like HomePlugs, Wi-Fi Access Points, and ethernet switches couldn't care less about "the Internet" - they are "just" devices that facilitate network connectivity in their many and various ways.

That which facilitates your connection to the public Internet is the "router" you have connected to the incoming ISP line. How your network traffic "knows" how to get to the Internet is founded in the the way IP addressing work.

Very briefly; data travels around networks in discrete little unit called "packets" like letters in the post. Each packet has some "content" (the "payload") and an "envelope" with some addressing information written on it.

In the "magic" of IP addressing, a host that wants to send an packet compares it's own IP address (and something called the "subnet mask") with the destination IP address of the packet to determine whether the target host is on "the same" network as itself or a "different" network. If "the same" network, it hands off the IP packet for local delivery by means I shall not describe for brevity, if "different" it will send the IP packet to your router and your router then forwards it on elsewhere (ie up to your ISP and your ISP then makes further decisions about where to send it next.) Vice-versa in the reverse path.

Most network technologies cannot convey "raw" IP packets, so IP packets are usually encapsulated inside other "types" of packets, thusly IP packet inside an ethernet packet for sending over wired ethernet, inside Wi-Fi packets for transmission over the radio airwaves, inside HomePlug packets for transmission over the mains. All these packet formats are different, though similar. (Incidentally, Wi-FI AP's and HomePlugse convert incoming ethernet packets from the ethernet port to Wi-Fi/Homeplug format and vice versa.) The addressing on these packets is based on something called MAC Addresses. (And these packets also convey many other forms of data, not just IP.)

Things like ethernet switches, AP's and HomePlugs aren't using IP addressing mechanism as they are not forwarding packets on the basis of IP addresses, switches/AP's/Homeplugs et al forward packets on the basis of MAC Addresses and they have no concept of "The Internet" (or inter-networking generally.)

The IP addresses that switches/AP's/HomePlugs have themselves are purely for "admin" purposes - for example, so we can get at them to change the settings (often using a web browser these days.) In "normal operation" they don't use IP at all and the concept of "how to get to the Internet" is meaningless for such devices, though in some of the newer so-called "mesh" systems where the AP's "talk" to each other, they mostly use IP for holding such conversations . Some devices will try to find the Intenet (IIRC I have a Wi-Fi Repeater that does so,) but this is just a "dog and pony show," it's not at all necessary for them to them to "work."
 
Last edited:
When you look at a devolo network using the cockpit app, the master socket, which connects to the router, has 2 symbols, one says “Local device” and the other is “Internet router”. All is fine until I connect the SKY Q Mini box to a remote plug, then the “Internet router” connection moves to being on that plug. When this happens several other devices, mostly wired ip camera connections stop working correctly.
 
Sky q is renowned for being strange, as you are hard wiring them have you gone into the service menu on every Sky device and turned off wifi, and rebooted then checked wifi is off?

If not try it, im wondering if some strange routing loop is being created
 
Yes, I have a SKY Q box and 2 SKY Mini boxes, two are hard wired directly and have wifi turned off. The other one is the issue one, I can only connect it using devolo plugs, which causes this issue. I have tried it with wifi on and off but it makes no difference, as soon as I connect it wired it “takes” the internet and breaks everything.
 
Again - in what way "takes the Internet...?" Can you explain what you mean by that. Maybe some screenshots would help me.

One way a device (any device) can knock out the Internet is if that device claims the same IP address as the "LAN" interface on your ISP router. It may be worth checking out the IP addresses of all your device (check on the devices themselves, not in the "IP address table" of your router) and see if there are any duplicates. Duplicate IP addresses on an IP network are a complete no-no.

The HomePlugs shouldn't "care" about the Internet because they don't work at the IP level and aren't involved in determining "how to reach the Internet." They are essentially like two port ethernet switches, it's just that one of the port happens to be connected to the mains albeit they use an alternate signalling paradigm and protocol.

The "master" plug thing is about determining which plug moderates usage of the mains circuit, not directing traffic to/from "the Internet". Briefly, only one plug at a time can transmit across the mains. The "master" plug is responsible for arbitrating which plugs' "turn" it is to transmit. That's all. (I could conceive it might also host the cockpit software.) If that is the case, I'd bet if you swapped them all around, they would still work just fine. I cannot think of any other reason why the "master" plug would need to be directly connected to your router - though it would help in that generally it would be "set up" first and that will be easier if it's connected to your router.

.
 
Last edited:
As I explained above, when I connect the SKY Q Mini to the adaptor, the symbol named “Internet router” moves from the master socket to the SKY Q mini adaptor in the cockpit software, and the other adaptors, used to carry IP camera traffic stop working.
 
So far I have only checked ip addresses. Looking back, this issue has only started since I got a replacement SKY broadband hub to the latest one.
 
Does anything loose Internet connectivity when you plug in the errant box?

You could try setting off some continuous pings against various targets and then see what stops working. For example, ping your router from something directly connected to it and something "the other side" of a HomePlug link and see if they survive. Essentially you are trying to build up a picture of what's affected and what (if anything) is not. Sorry, but for some networking issues, there's nothing for it but to slog through some methodical and forensic testing.

A diagram of the physical topology might be useful - it doesn't need to be pretty as long as it shows what connects to what. Complete with IP addresses if you know any of them.
 
Along with @mickevh suggestions if I was trying to debug this I’d

Swap over the powerline that ‘takes over’ the network with another known working one to see if the issue happens to different powerline devices or it’s tied to one device.

If fault happens to more than one powerline device I’d try swapping over q boxes, does a previously okay q box cause the powerline issue?

Your trying to confirm if a item of hardware is a fault off if you’ve discovered some undocumented ’feature’
 
It may be as a result of a possible network loop created by the wired and wifi connections between Sky Q boxes (they create a sort of mesh wifi network in the background).

If you google how to get into the Sky Q installer menu you could try turning off wifi on the offending Sky Q box and see if you still get the same issues.
 
Hi, I have tried it with wifi on and off, it makes no difference. I have tried several different Devolo adaptors, all with the same result, so it must be the SKY MINI BOX causing the issue.
 
Hi, I have tried it with wifi on and off, it makes no difference. I have tried several different Devolo adaptors, all with the same result, so it must be the SKY MINI BOX causing the issue.

tbf you didn’t say this when I asked what debug you’d already performed.

I’d agree it sounds like sky box I guess the question is just that box or all mini boxes…
 
The SKY Box and the other SKY mini are hard wired, it is just one that isn’t and is using Devolo plugs.
 
The SKY Box and the other SKY mini are hard wired, it is just one that isn’t and is using Devolo plugs.
Yes that Was clearly understood, hence my suggestion to test one of the ethernet connected mini boxes with a devolo

The point is if you put a devolo onto the other sky mini box & that ‘takes over’ the internet then its unlikely that you have two faulty boxes & it’s likely a ‘feature’ of the mini boxes or there configuration.

If it doesn’t ‘take over’ the internet then it’s likely the mini box or it’s config is at fault & you have a choice to swap over the mini boxes, get sky tp replace the ‘takes over’ the internet box or to continue to debug.
 
I tried it with the other SKY Mini box, with the same result, so it must be a SKY "feature" that is causing this. Everything was fine until we had an issue with the Internet and SKY provided the latest router. I set it up in exactly the same config so not sure if the HUB might be the issue.

I have a case open now with Devolo who are also taking a look, in case they can prevent this at the plug.
 
Devolo have come back with the following:

“it seems that the sky cube has an active dhcp server and this could be the reason why the software recognizes the devolo plug as the one which is connected to internet. Maybe you could verify if the sky cube has an active dhcp server and if yes, then i would suggest to disable this server to avoid that a second network will be build up.”

I wouldn’t think a sky q mini box has the ability to be a DHCP server?
 
With these sort of mechanisms, what we "think" or "believe" or "feel" is of no relevance, we need to focus on the evidence and symptoms, do some diagnosis and testing and then confect a solution.

It sounds to me like Devlo are guessing a bit and it's a guess some of us here might have made on the prima facia evidence. Multiple DHCP Servers on a SOHO network is a "bad thing" and certainly something to check out. You should only have one DHCP Server and unless you really want to get into the weeds with DHCP and IP addressing, it's best if it's the DHCP Server in the router that terminates your ISP link.

Technically, a DHCP Server could be anywhere (and you can have more than one of them,) but the DHCP Servers in SOHO kit often lack the granularity of control required to deploy one elsewhere, so unless you really want to get your IT nerd on, it's simplest to use the ISP router's DHCP Server and accept the default values it will offer and make sure any others are turned off.

To know for sure what your Sky box does, you'd need to check it's spec. An IT nerd, such as I, could use a packet sniffing tool (like WireShark) to check out the actual network traffic, but that's a pretty sophisticated tool that's not for feint hearted!

Multiple DHCP Servers of itself isn't a "problem" for someone that knows what they are doing - the issue is that in SOHO kit, the IP leases those DHCP Servers hand out almost always designate themselves as the "default gateway" (ie the device that connects to the Internet) and thusly you could have hosts with different and competing default gateways (some of which may not even reach the Internet) - which would be bad.

In IP networking, every host on the network is taught a "default gateway" IP address. Either by manually assigning one or automatically as part of the DHCP Lease. The "default gateway" IP address is where any host sends traffic it does not know what else to do with (ie it cannot figure out how to deliver it locally.) In small SOHO network the default gateway is almost always your ISP router (that's what routers do - forward or "route" IP traffic towards it's destination,) and thusly the DHCP Server loaded into most SOHO routers are shipped configured so that they always designate themselves are the default gateway in the DHCP Leases they serve out. And in SOHO kit, we usually cannot change this. (In "big boy" DHCP Servers managed by IT pros. we can dick around with this sort of thing.)

If you look on a Windows machine, for example, open up a CMD prompt and run an IPCONFIG /ALL and find your active NIC, amongst the IP addressing information you should find it's own IP address, the subnet mask and the default gateway (amongst other stuff.)

If you have multiple DHCP Servers, then they could be serving out leases that conflict with each other and this sort of thing would change, seemingly randomly, and stuff would start dropping off the Internet.

EDIT - Whilst musing over this, the thought occurred that it might be an interesting experiment to give your plugs static IP addresses (ie manually assigned,) if they allow it, rather than letting them get their IP using DHCP (if that is what the are using now) and see if that makes any difference. We can probably walk you through the process.
 
Last edited:
EDIT - Whilst musing over this, the thought occurred that it might be an interesting experiment to give your plugs static IP addresses (ie manually assigned,) if they allow it, rather than letting them get their IP using DHCP (if that is what the are using now) and see if that makes any difference. We can probably walk you through the process.

Ethernet-only powerline plugs don’t actually connect to ethernet network directly, but communicate using their powerline protocol only (which is why you have to use some software to look at their stats, update firmware etc rather than use a web browser to configure them com an IP address). Only the wifi models grab an IP address so that you can use a browser to configure the wifi settings just as you would normally with any other wifi AP.
 

The latest video from AVForums

Is 4K Blu-ray Worth It?
Subscribe to our YouTube channel
Back
Top Bottom