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sky picture breaking up

anobium

Active Member
We have 2 sky hd boxes 1 living room downstairs and another one upstairs in bedroom. Recently the one upstairs has problems with some channels notably sky movies, i.e either no signal is being recieved or the picture is all scrambled like little blocks everywere. I have checked the signal and it seems ok, both around 50% the rest of the channels seem ok. Anyone any ideas never had this proiblem before the downstairs one signal is not as good but have no problems very strange.
 

andy1249

Distinguished Member
Its the power supply , they have known problems. The capacitors on the supply are starting to leak.
When this happens all high bitrate channels like sky movies break up badly on screen.

The power supply will have to be replaced. If the box is out of warranty the best course of action is to replace the power supply with one that has been fixed properly , using good quality capacitors , i.e. dont get Sky to do it.

http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=509939

Read from about post 40 onwards , there are links to where you can buy the necessary parts and a procedure on how to change them.
 

anobium

Active Member
Hmm not sure about that would cost around £50.00 after sending old psu back, and still might not work could be dish or cable.
 

fernandez

Distinguished Member
Have you tried swapping the boxes and/or LNB feeds around or even trying the box/boxes on another dish?
It's all a process of elimination I suppose

If the worst comes to the worst the £65 Sky call-out charge may save a lot of time and hassle
 

andy1249

Distinguished Member
I went through this myself , paid sky 3 times and each time they came out there was no improvement , After having the dish checked twice and the box checked I was told that the box needed to be repaired for £119 , at this stage there was obviously nothing to lose by going the power supply route , I changed this and all was fine , and still is !

I wish I had seen the above thread earlier , it would have saved a lot of cash!

If you know the dish is OK and there is nothing else obviously wrong , then go the power supply route , its a known issue now and it will fix the problem assuming of course that you have ruled out the dish.
 

anobium

Active Member
How can you rule out the dish?, I know there is a water level on it this looks in the center the thing is the box downstairs is now braking up at times, If I get sky out will they check both boxes and the dish for the £60.00?.
 

andy1249

Distinguished Member
For the £60 they will check the dish , once thats done the dish is out of the picture , if the problem still persists then its most likely the boxes , they will not fix the boxes for the call out charge , unless they are under warranty.
 

Bachstrad

Well-known Member
For the £60 they will check the dish , once thats done the dish is out of the picture , if the problem still persists then its most likely the boxes , they will not fix the boxes for the call out charge , unless they are under warranty.

Not so, it's £65 and they will fix the problem for that, be it dish or box.

BTW, if you paid £299 for the box it should certainly last longer than Sky's limited warranty, you should bring the Sale of Goods Act into play and pay nothing at all to have it fixed! Especially as you pay an ongoing monthly subscription to receive the service!

To do the repairs yourself and at your own expense is madness IMHO. It's Sky's responsibility to repair the equipment and they shouldn't be allowed to get away with it!

ATB

Max
 

andy1249

Distinguished Member
BTW, if you paid £299 for the box it should certainly last longer than Sky's limited warranty, you should bring the Sale of Goods Act into play and pay nothing at all to have it fixed! Especially as you pay an ongoing monthly subscription to receive the service!

Sale of goods is all very well but It doesnt stand up when it comes to practice , and as far as I know no one has managed to get the box fixed properly by sky yet.They havnt even admitted its a problem , and under your sky contract the box is yours , not theirs and outside warranty you are responsible for the cost of all repairs.

And they will not fix the box for the call out charge , thats a dish alignment and check only , the box is not covered for that price , as I posted , they quoted 119 for that.
 

Bachstrad

Well-known Member
Sale of goods is all very well but It doesnt stand up when it comes to practice , and as far as I know no one has managed to get the box fixed properly by sky yet.They havnt even admitted its a problem , and under your sky contract the box is yours , not theirs and outside warranty you are responsible for the cost of all repairs.

And they will not fix the box for the call out charge , thats a dish alignment and check only , the box is not covered for that price , as I posted , they quoted 119 for that.

Then you should study the Sale of Goods Act .... you are misinformed!

No one is above the law ... not even Sky! ;)

ATB

Max
 

andy1249

Distinguished Member
Then you should study the Sale of Goods Act .... you are misinformed!

No one is above the law ... not even Sky!

Your missing my point entirely , regardless of what it says in the sales of goods act , its not going to fix your sky box , no matter how much you shout about it , you can instigate legal action , which will take quite some time and at the end of all that , it will be agreed who's responsible for fixing the broken box , but it will still be lying there , under the TV , not fixed !!

Sale of goods act is all well and good , if you have the time for it , in practice , if a contractor like Sky decides it doesnt have to comply , then you have a long legal road ahead of you. Its not like you can call the Police and have them arrested now is it ?

Me , I got a new power supply rather than a solicitor , personally I think it was the better deal , the box was out of warranty anyway , and its working fine now , whats more , I know the problem was with cheap capacitors , and my new power supply doesnt have those , so I know its fixed for the long term.

It certainly is bad form that a box that costs so much is so shoddily made and easily fails. Sky should be fixing it , however they made it clear to me that they werent going to do that for nothing so I had a choice of legal action of doing it myself , I chose the quicker route.
 

Ch0pper

Active Member
I've had the same problem for about 2 weeks now but only on certain channels.. UKTVGold+1, Sky Sports 2 and Sky Sports HD3.

It may be on others that I haven't checked but all the other channels I regularly watch have had no problems!

My box is well over a year old now as well. More like 2! :(
 

Bachstrad

Well-known Member
Your missing my point entirely , regardless of what it says in the sales of goods act , its not going to fix your sky box , no matter how much you shout about it , you can instigate legal action , which will take quite some time and at the end of all that , it will be agreed who's responsible for fixing the broken box , but it will still be lying there , under the TV , not fixed !!

Sale of goods act is all well and good , if you have the time for it , in practice , if a contractor like Sky decides it doesnt have to comply , then you have a long legal road ahead of you. Its not like you can call the Police and have them arrested now is it ?

Me , I got a new power supply rather than a solicitor , personally I think it was the better deal , the box was out of warranty anyway , and its working fine now , whats more , I know the problem was with cheap capacitors , and my new power supply doesnt have those , so I know its fixed for the long term.

It certainly is bad form that a box that costs so much is so shoddily made and easily fails. Sky should be fixing it , however they made it clear to me that they werent going to do that for nothing so I had a choice of legal action of doing it myself , I chose the quicker route.

I'm not missing your point at all, you are still missing mine!

Sky know their obligations under the Act and taking Court proceedings is the last resort under that Act. If you telephoned Sky to get them to resolve an issue with a failed box and got hold of a 'numptie' who wouldn't budge on 'fixing it for nothing', then you should have asked to speak to their line manager and escalated the issue. Sky will not want to appear at a County Court where ever you live and lose, as surely they will, because a Sky HD box should last longer than their 12 month warranty. Which 'doesn't affect your statutary rights' by the way. Those rights being the ones detailed in the Sale of Goods Act.

Because you chose to let Sky get away with it and roll over and do your own repairs doesn't help with the overall situation of getting the issues put right. So instead of waving the white flag to Sky, you should have pressed the matter further, I'd bet my bottom dollar that Sky would have resolved the situation facing the possibility of invoking SOGA, as I said earlier, they know they would lose. Not only does a faulty Sky HD box not meet the requirements of SOGA, but they're charging you a monthly subscription to receive the programs for it to function. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know what a Judge would say in Court, which is why it wouldn't get that far!

Just so you are better informed, you don't need a solicitor to invoke SOGA, you can do it for next to nothing, less than £20 I believe. Both parties would have to sit around a table and resolve the issue in the presence of Judge who then makes his ruling. This takes place where the Court papers were issued, not where Sky are located. I repeat, Sky will not want this to happen!

So just because you decided to let Sky off the hook and spend your own money to repair faulty goods, doesn't mean you were right, or should be congratulated, or that your advice is a good proposition. It just helps Sky to reduce their costs and avoid their responsibilities under the Sale of Goods Act. That's not a good thing IMHO.

ATB

Max
 

SlinkDaddy

Well-known Member
My HD box is starting to do this but on wierd channels like racing UK and a few others, biography i think. Although i dont watch most of the channels that are breaking up at the momont. I'm undecided what to do yet.

I think the sale of goods act isnt as open and shut as its made out to be sometimes. If you can as you say get a call centre manager to give in and fix the box for free under the sale of goods act then great.:smashin:

But after the first 6 months of ownership its down to the purchaser to prove there is a fault with their appliance. So Sky would be well within their right to ignore your claim until you provide them with an independent engineers report that proves there is a fault with your box that exsisted from new (or that would allow you to argue that your machine hasnt lasted for a reasonable amount of time). Given all the time, hassle and short term costs this would involve i think a lot of people would just opt for paying to get it sorted first time rather than having to go through the hassle of claiming under the SOGA. Given the nature of the equipment, to be sure there was a fault with your Sky box you would have to pay an engineer callout to come and test your dish/cable/box etc in your home to establish there is definately a fault with you box and not something that wouldn't be covered by the SOGA such as dish alignment or a break in the cable etc etc. This involves money outlay for the engineer and potential days off from work to wait in for engineers etc. All of this while you aren't receiving the service you want.

Not saying its right or wrong just saying that this would be the case for a lot of people.
 

mossmanfly

Active Member
I just posted this http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=762885 and just noticed this thread. May not be related as in my case its time based.

I do have ever get small breakups at times on channels, to be honest its only HD channels and its something that you would miss if you blinked. Also its not the whole screen break up it could be just the a few random blocks, main occurances really are in darker scenes and if you have flashing images that can affect it.

I have encountered the no signal a few times on some HD movie channels, but going to the planner and recording the channel and stopping it solves the issue, there was a topic or some threads about it, dont know if thats PSU related.
 

andy1249

Distinguished Member
I do have ever get small breakups at times on channels, to be honest its only HD channels and its something that you would miss if you blinked. Also its not the whole screen break up it could be just the a few random blocks, main occurances really are in darker scenes and if you have flashing images that can affect it.

The power supply issue causes major picture breakup on the movie channels , the stations are unwatchable , its no minor thing. Definitely not something you would miss or wouldnt be sure off.
 

Bachstrad

Well-known Member
My HD box is starting to do this but on wierd channels like racing UK and a few others, biography i think. Although i dont watch most of the channels that are breaking up at the momont. I'm undecided what to do yet.

I think the sale of goods act isnt as open and shut as its made out to be sometimes. If you can as you say get a call centre manager to give in and fix the box for free under the sale of goods act then great.:smashin:

But after the first 6 months of ownership its down to the purchaser to prove there is a fault with their appliance. So Sky would be well within their right to ignore your claim until you provide them with an independent engineers report that proves there is a fault with your box that exsisted from new (or that would allow you to argue that your machine hasnt lasted for a reasonable amount of time). Given all the time, hassle and short term costs this would involve i think a lot of people would just opt for paying to get it sorted first time rather than having to go through the hassle of claiming under the SOGA. Given the nature of the equipment, to be sure there was a fault with your Sky box you would have to pay an engineer callout to come and test your dish/cable/box etc in your home to establish there is definately a fault with you box and not something that wouldn't be covered by the SOGA such as dish alignment or a break in the cable etc etc. This involves money outlay for the engineer and potential days off from work to wait in for engineers etc. All of this while you aren't receiving the service you want.

Not saying its right or wrong just saying that this would be the case for a lot of people.

So you're saying that something that costs £299 and lasts for less than 2 years is just fine, let Sky off the hook because it's a day off work and repair it yourself and at your own expense? Top advice! We're paying a monthly subscription to receive the service for goodness sake!

IF Sky won't play ball under their responsibilities to SOGA, a phonecall to trading standards will probably be enough. Just make sure you tell Sky that's what you're going to do because they're liable under SOGA. Is that too difficult? I bet you get the problem sorted for nothing, pronto! You won't even have to make the call to Trading Standards, they won't want to risk it going to court because they won't want the adverse publicity, or the costs involved in fighting it. They'll always try it on and can you blame them, when there are people prepared to spend their own money to repair their (Sky's) faulty goods?

But hey, if you'd rather do it yourself and effectively save Sky the job, carry on. It's only going going to make matters worse IMHO. Having repaired it yourself and at your own expense, you then remove your rights under SOGA by not giving Sky the opportunity to repair the box themselves. From then on in there's no come back!

ATB

Max
 

SlinkDaddy

Well-known Member
So you're saying that something that costs £299 and lasts for less than 2 years is just fine, let Sky off the hook because it's a day off work and repair it yourself and at your own expense? Top advice! We're paying a monthly subscription to receive the service for goodness sake!

IF Sky won't play ball under their responsibilities to SOGA, a phonecall to trading standards will probably be enough. Just make sure you tell Sky that's what you're going to do because they're liable under SOGA. Is that too difficult? I bet you get the problem sorted for nothing, pronto! You won't even have to make the call to Trading Standards, they won't want to risk it going to court because they won't want the adverse publicity, or the costs involved in fighting it. They'll always try it on and can you blame them, when there are people prepared to spend their own money to repair their (Sky's) faulty goods?

But hey, if you'd rather do it yourself and effectively save Sky the job, carry on. It's only going going to make matters worse IMHO. Having repaired it yourself and at your own expense, you then remove your rights under SOGA by not giving Sky the opportunity to repair the box themselves. From then on in there's no come back!

ATB

Max


Did you actually read my thread? I was merely stating what a lot of people would do in the same stituation and understandably so. For an awful lot of people one day off work will cost them at least a hundred pounds plus and therefore they may decide for them its is a better idea to get it resolved quickly and in the first instance. At no point did i say it is what i would do.

For some people it may save them money to just but another box and install it themselves because it is cheaper than taking days off etc.

I also pointed out that just making threats over the phone to SKY using the SOGA without having already attained an engineers report may not get you anywhere. I didnt advocate not trying it i merely stated that Sky would be entitled to ignore your claim if they knew what they were doing, until you have got the engineers report. If that happened then for a lot of people it would be better for them to do what i mentioned above. Not everyone wants to make a stand against Sky to get a free repair that may end up actually costing them more money than getting the problem solved themselves.
 

Bachstrad

Well-known Member
Did you actually read my thread? I was merely stating what a lot of people would do in the same stituation and understandably so. For an awful lot of people one day off work will cost them at least a hundred pounds plus and therefore they may decide for them its is a better idea to get it resolved quickly and in the first instance. At no point did i say it is what i would do.

For some people it may save them money to just but another box and install it themselves because it is cheaper than taking days off etc.

I also pointed out that just making threats over the phone to SKY using the SOGA without having already attained an engineers report may not get you anywhere. I didnt advocate not trying it i merely stated that Sky would be entitled to ignore your claim if they knew what they were doing, until you have got the engineers report. If that happened then for a lot of people it would be better for them to do what i mentioned above. Not everyone wants to make a stand against Sky to get a free repair that may end up actually costing them more money than getting the problem solved themselves.

No I haven't read you're thread, is it on this same subject? :confused:

I have read your posts in this thread though and it would seem to me that you're basically advocating that The Sale of Goods Act isn't worth the paper it's printed on, is unenforceable and companies like Sky should be allowed to get away with not abiding by that Act. I'm sorry, but I just can't condone that. Implying that you'll need an engineers report is a red herring IMHO, you don't. Telephoning Trading Standards doesn't involve taking a day off work either, only the cost of the call.

ATB

Max
 

ELV

Active Member
I think what he's saying is that to most people it isn't worth the bother for the sake of 50 quid, legal action is a step most people would rather avoid if possible and probally for 50 quid most would,rightly or wrongly.
 

Bachstrad

Well-known Member
I think what he's saying is that to most people it isn't worth the bother for the sake of 50 quid, legal action is a step most people would rather avoid if possible and probally for 50 quid most would,rightly or wrongly.

It's more the threat of legal action and Trading Standards that does the trick!

I can't see anything 'right' in aiding Sky to avoid their obligations under The Sale of Goods Act. Surely that's just 'wrong'! :lesson:

ATB

Max
 

jonstannes

Active Member
I just posted this http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=762885 and just noticed this thread. May not be related as in my case its time based.

I do have ever get small breakups at times on channels, to be honest its only HD channels and its something that you would miss if you blinked. Also its not the whole screen break up it could be just the a few random blocks, main occurances really are in darker scenes and if you have flashing images that can affect it.

I have encountered the no signal a few times on some HD movie channels, but going to the planner and recording the channel and stopping it solves the issue, there was a topic or some threads about it, dont know if thats PSU related.

Does the same on my box on HD channels get fast action film or flashing etc get small blocks of the picture breaking up.
 

SlinkDaddy

Well-known Member
No I haven't read you're thread, is it on this same subject? :confused:

I have read your posts in this thread though and it would seem to me that you're basically advocating that The Sale of Goods Act isn't worth the paper it's printed on, is unenforceable and companies like Sky should be allowed to get away with not abiding by that Act. I'm sorry, but I just can't condone that. Implying that you'll need an engineers report is a red herring IMHO, you don't. Telephoning Trading Standards doesn't involve taking a day off work either, only the cost of the call.

ATB




Max



Sorry post. My mistake.:D

The paper that the SOGA act is printed on states that the burden of proof lies with the purchaser after 6 months to prove the item purchased is inherently faulty. All can be found here:-

http://www.berr.gov.uk/consumers/fact-sheets/page38311.html

I am not stating that the sale of goods act isn't worth the paper is printed on. It exsists to protect the seller as well as the purchaser. What you are basically saying is that everyone that has a problem with their picture breaking up on their 2 year old Sky box should just phone Sky and then trading standards and force them to repair the box for free under the SOGA.

What i am saying is that it is not that simple and that for every person that has a genuine fault that can claim on the SOGA there is likely to be another that doesn't and the fault is down to another factor. If Sky were to dispute that your box was faulty as they would be well within their rights to do, it is down to the purchaser to prove that their box is faulty. Which in this case would involve an engineers report. This is not a red herring it is fact. Trading standards can't tell you if your dish is properly aligned, nor can they tell you if there is water in your cable, or whether the fault with the box is down to a design flaw/manufacturing error or whether it is down to misuse or accidental damage by the consumer etc etc etc. For example i have had someone try to claim under the SOGA on a VHS recorder where the fault was caused by a sticker that had come off one of their VHS tapes and damaged the machine. Therefore the SOGA didnt apply. We did however inspect it for the customer when they brought it in and show them this, therefore we did more than we were obliged to do. In the interest of keeping the customer happy and carry on the return business we had with them.

As i say if you can get Sky to fix your box for nothing then great. Do it!:smashin: But i believe i am giving an accurate version of the sale of goods act. Not that of someone that is reading it purely from a consumers point of view and not accepting the parts of the SOGA that are there to protect the retailer as well.

Yet again i am not saying it is right or wrong, just stating the facts. I actually believe that claiming under the sale of goods act if the retailer wants to follow it to the letter of the law is harder than it should be for the consumer. If the retailer is a customer orientated one and will as some do go over and above the sale of goods act, then great! But if they don't i think it is harder than it should be to get things resolved. I think one of the reasons for this is that the sale of goods act was written to cover everything sold from say a pair of socks to a £15000 hifi etc. I believe there is a case for argueing that it should be looked at and amended in certain areas to help the customer. The 6 year rule and the way you have to claim using it seems to side a little too much with the retailer for me at the moment.

Edit: No i dont work for Sky btw!
 

Bachstrad

Well-known Member
Sorry post. My mistake.:D

The paper that the SOGA act is printed on states that the burden of proof lies with the purchaser after 6 months to prove the item purchased is inherently faulty. All can be found here:-

http://www.berr.gov.uk/consumers/fact-sheets/page38311.html

I am not stating that the sale of goods act isn't worth the paper is printed on. It exsists to protect the seller as well as the purchaser. What you are basically saying is that everyone that has a problem with their picture breaking up on their 2 year old Sky box should just phone Sky and then trading standards and force them to repair the box for free under the SOGA.

What i am saying is that it is not that simple and that for every person that has a genuine fault that can claim on the SOGA there is likely to be another that doesn't and the fault is down to another factor. If Sky were to dispute that your box was faulty as they would be well within their rights to do, it is down to the purchaser to prove that their box is faulty. Which in this case would involve an engineers report. This is not a red herring it is fact. Trading standards can't tell you if your dish is properly aligned, nor can they tell you if there is water in your cable, or whether the fault with the box is down to a design flaw/manufacturing error or whether it is down to misuse or accidental damage by the consumer etc etc etc. For example i have had someone try to claim under the SOGA on a VHS recorder where the fault was caused by a sticker that had come off one of their VHS tapes and damaged the machine. Therefore the SOGA didnt apply. We did however inspect it for the customer when they brought it in and show them this, therefore we did more than we were obliged to do. In the interest of keeping the customer happy and carry on the return business we had with them.

As i say if you can get Sky to fix your box for nothing then great. Do it!:smashin: But i believe i am giving an accurate version of the sale of goods act. Not that of someone that is reading it purely from a consumers point of view and not accepting the parts of the SOGA that are there to protect the retailer as well.

Yet again i am not saying it is right or wrong, just stating the facts. I actually believe that claiming under the sale of goods act if the retailer wants to follow it to the letter of the law is harder than it should be for the consumer. If the retailer is a customer orientated one and will as some do go over and above the sale of goods act, then great! But if they don't i think it is harder than it should be to get things resolved. I think one of the reasons for this is that the sale of goods act was written to cover everything sold from say a pair of socks to a £15000 hifi etc. I believe there is a case for argueing that it should be looked at and amended in certain areas to help the customer. The 6 year rule and the way you have to claim using it seems to side a little too much with the retailer for me at the moment.

Edit: No i dont work for Sky btw!

That's exactly what I'm saying! If we were talking about a £20 DVD player, that would be a different matter. But we're talking about a £300 STB, which more to the point, needs an additional subscription service to function. In my case I pay £65 a month. If Sky blatantly refuse to send someone round to inspect the faulty box at no charge after quoting SOGA, I would be very surprised indeed. This then gives them the opportunity to see if a spilt cup of coffee or some other negligence has caused the problem and they would have every right to decline to do anything about the issue and insist that you should obtain an engineers report. That's how a decent company would look at the situation and I've seen no evidence that Sky won't do it that way if pushed. They shouldn't have to replace a box that has been'damaged' by the owner. I don't doubt that they will say that the box is out of 'warranty' and the call out charge will be £65. If the customer then decides that's OK and pays up and chooses not to exercise their statutary rights then again that's fine too, but the whole issue revolves around the intial value of the goods and how long they have lasted. Trading Standards will give free advice on whether you have a case, if they feel it's strong enough, they may well take it up on your behalf.

If someone wishes to pay for their own repairs and let Sky off the hook that way, then that's fine too. However, the advice to ignore SOGA and try to say that there's no point in 'taking it up with Sky because ....' is not at all helpful and fundamentally wrong. That's my 'beef', you can't just assume you're going to need an engineers report until you find out that Sky want you to provide one. Very unlikely IMHO.

Once the boxes reach the age that they should be expected to last exceeds their value I would have no problem in buying a replacement, that's not 2 years for a £300 STB. I have a Thomson TIVO that continues to run perfectly since 1999. If it fails, there is no case under SOGA, with the Sky box there is. More to the point, Sky knows there is too!

ATB

Max
 

mattclarkie

Distinguished Member
I am not stating that the sale of goods act isn't worth the paper is printed on. It exsists to protect the seller as well as the purchaser. What you are basically saying is that everyone that has a problem with their picture breaking up on their 2 year old Sky box should just phone Sky and then trading standards and force them to repair the box for free under the SOGA.

If the boxes are failing in large numbers, then that is because they were badly designed. If they are badly designed they are not fit for purpose. If they are not fit for purpose then Sky have broken one of the golden rules for selling a product to a consumer.

Even if they break in small quantities then within the first 3 years they should still replace it for free. But when you have people on box number 6 or 7, then you have a major issue.

People have been positive towards Microsoft for repairing RRoD 360s for 3 years. But the point is they shouldn't get RRoD in such large numbers, what other console has had a minimum of 50% failure rate? What other digibox has had a minimum of I would guess 20% failure rate?
 

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