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Sky Netgear Router and an access point

Garry123

Member
Hi,

I want to configure a wireless access point to use with my amp. I have a sky netgear DG834GT, i've also got a Belkin G wireless router which i was hoping to configure as a wireless network point, but I cannot even get the wireless light on the front to come on. I have a nasty feeling that i'm flogging a dead horse. Therefore is there any hope of these two devices working together and if not what do I actually need to buy to use as an access point?

Cheers.
 

majnu

Member
Hi,

I want to configure a wireless access point to use with my amp. I have a sky netgear DG834GT, i've also got a Belkin G wireless router which i was hoping to configure as a wireless network point, but I cannot even get the wireless light on the front to come on. I have a nasty feeling that i'm flogging a dead horse. Therefore is there any hope of these two devices working together and if not what do I actually need to buy to use as an access point?

Cheers.
I have the same sky netgear modem/router, firmware version V1.03.22 - DGTeam Rev. 1014. When I go to device mode in the router's control pannel I can set it up as a modem+router or modem only.

I think you will need to set it up as modem only and then plug your Belkin router to it to act as an access point/router.
 
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Garry123

Member
Thanks for the advice. Just downloaded that but for the life of me cannot figure out what to do with the img files.

What i don't understand is why can i connect my iphone, blu-ray player etc to the wifi so easily and yet this is a right pain. Surely there is a product out there that lets me connect to the wifi easily and has a rj45 connector.
 

majnu

Member
Thanks for the advice. Just downloaded that but for the life of me cannot figure out what to do with the img files.

What i don't understand is why can i connect my iphone, blu-ray player etc to the wifi so easily and yet this is a right pain. Surely there is a product out there that lets me connect to the wifi easily and has a rj45 connector.
I would wait for the more knowledgable members to give advise before flashing your router. I have not got a wireless access point myself. Also try posting your question on the Belkin and Netgear forums for a quick response. Or in the Sky ISP section in these forums.

Good Luck, I'm sure it is a simple fix ;)
 

Garry123

Member
:thumbsup: Cheers .
 

t72bogie

Novice Member
most routers dont work as wireless to ethernet bridges (the device you need)

you need one that supports "client mode"

even the majority of wireless access points may not have this feature

its easier to make seperate, easy to setup wireless bridges to use with say blu-ray players, TVs etc, than it is for a consumer to disable all the irrelevant features in a router to attempt to make it into a wireless ethernet bridge

WNCE2001 - Ethernet to Wireless Adapter

or have a look for devices marketed as "gaming adapters" for xbox etc ...basically a wireless client that plugs into an ethernet port and bridges the two
 

majnu

Member
Maybe some of the advise in this link may help. I also found this link
 
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Garry123

Member
Thanks for the links. It seems my problem is the sky router will not allow WDS. So without updating the firmware to a non sky version it will not work. Which is what i do not understand. I don't want to extend the range, I just want to connect to the wifi network like the rest of my gadgets do easily.

It's very odd. :(
 

t72bogie

Novice Member
you just dont need WDS either ...you need "client mode" which is different to WDS which is wireless distribution system i.e bridging ...which would work, but plain client mode would be easier

lots of routers dont support such things...particularly ISP supplied ones ....it could be a support nightmare for an ISP trying to support customers setting up point to point multipoint bridges around the home, so I guess they just delete that feature.....
 

majnu

Member
you just dont need WDS either ...you need "client mode" which is different to WDS which is wireless distribution system i.e bridging ...which would work, but plain client mode would be easier

lots of routers dont support such things...particularly ISP supplied ones ....it could be a support nightmare for an ISP trying to support customers setting up point to point multipoint bridges around the home, so I guess they just delete that feature.....
Bogie- It seems that WDS and Client Mode is supported on an updated DG834GT Sky ADSL Modem/Router. Or is it that the Router/Access Point needs to support Client Mode?

See attached doc.
 

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t72bogie

Novice Member
ok ...so just update your DG834GT then and youre sorted :smashin:

if it supports client mode, then the other end does not need WDS support as it will appear just as a wireless client adapter to the other router

if it only supports WDS bridging, then both ends need to support it to work together
 

majnu

Member
ok ...so just update your DG834GT then and youre sorted :smashin:

if it supports client mode, then the other end does not need WDS support as it will appear just as a wireless client adapter to the other router

if it only supports WDS bridging, then both ends need to support it to work together
What is the difference between bridging and repeating? Anyway, I was looking at the Netgear knowledge base and it seems what the OP wants to do is covered in this article and also someone wants to try the same setup here too. But I'm no expert but I am sure that using WDS (Wireless bridging) and not having an ethernet cable running from the Sky DG834GT to the Access point will half the throughput and maybe there will be a problem accessing the admin pannel to the repeater(s)/access points whilst the Sky Modem is plugged in. When entering 192.168.0.1 only allows you to access the "Master connected to ADSL" as shown in the diagram below as you need to disable DHCP and I assume enter the MAC address. Hope that makes sense.

http://www.unix.ms/netgear/network.jpg
 
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Garry123

Member
Wha? :rolleyes:

So if I update my software on my sky router to the un-official one i might get somewhere? Will sky be able to check if i'm using a different firmware?

Next question, I have downloaded the firmware and I know have three .img files. I thought i would have to use poweriso or similar to look at them, but it does not work. I'll try and find an idiots guide. Will i have to reconfigure my router or will it keep its old settings?
 

majnu

Member
I followed this guide to flash my router and also obtained the correct files to the link in my second post. Flashing the firmware cannot be detected by Sky, but I believe it will invalidate the initial 1 year warranty.

It's very important to get the login/password details first, everything is expalined in the link.

Good Luck ;)
 

t72bogie

Novice Member
backup router settings to text file from the backup menu before any upgrade

after any major upgrade, do a hard reset (pin in back for 10 secs whilst powered on) and then restore settings

wireless repeating is wireless only i.e the 2nd access point in the chain is repeating a signal to wireless client ....its not repeating a signal to wired clients (usually) ...its also 1/2 duplex, so you lose 50% of whatever bandwidth you had available at the other access point

rule of thumb for repeating used to be find the point where original signal starts to decay, then go back 25% distance, locate repeater there to repeat strong signal e.g. the full 54Mbps

54Mbps is a real 25MBps of throughput (at best), then with one repeater hop that becomes 12Mbps, with 2 hops it would be 6Mbps..and latency gets worse each time (no good for gaming)

hence wireless repeating is always a last resort solution to get wireless access into an area where you cant just run an ethernet cable

bridging is a 2 way link that replaces an ethernet cable, and bridges all traffic, wired or wireless between 2 wired networks. You can have a wireless bridge connection without client association, if you just want to replace a cable, but dont want to provide wireless access in the 2nd location

It can all be a bit confusing, if you havnt learn the basics. In the early days of wireless networking there were different physical hardware devices for all these functions e.g. you wanted a bridge, you bought a bridge, you wanted an access point, you bought an access point....

...now, as sales volumes can be low, therefore price high on such niche purpose devices, manufacturers have tried to make "access points" which support all modes; repeater, bridge, access point, wireless to ethernet bridge

to confuse matters further, the consumer market refers to devices as "routers" which are really multi function devices that include; router, wireless access point, ethernet switch, firewall etc

then for some more consumer confusion, some of these "routers" dont necessarily support all the wireless modes that a dedicated "access point" does - they just tend to do a subset :rolleyes:

IT is like the finance industry - keep it complex with lots of acronyms, so you can make a nice living out of understanding it all; 10 years ago if you could build a PC, you could make a nice living...now thats a commodity product, and commodity knowledge (any teenager can do it usually) and you can usually buy a PC far cheaper than you could build one out of bits ....

In another 10 years, no doubt basic networking skills will be commodity, common knowledge, everyone will know how to configure a basic home network with firewall, and the game will have moved on again to something else :smashin:
 

Garry123

Member
There is only the firmware on the link to the netgear site from your link. The thread is old though.
 

majnu

Member
backup router settings to text file from the backup menu before any upgrade

after any major upgrade, do a hard reset (pin in back for 10 secs whilst powered on) and then restore settings

wireless repeating is wireless only i.e the 2nd access point in the chain is repeating a signal to wireless client ....its not repeating a signal to wired clients (usually) ...its also 1/2 duplex, so you lose 50% of whatever bandwidth you had available at the other access point

rule of thumb for repeating used to be find the point where original signal starts to decay, then go back 25% distance, locate repeater there to repeat strong signal e.g. the full 54Mbps

54Mbps is a real 25MBps of throughput (at best), then with one repeater hop that becomes 12Mbps, with 2 hops it would be 6Mbps..and latency gets worse each time (no good for gaming)

hence wireless repeating is always a last resort solution to get wireless access into an area where you cant just run an ethernet cable

bridging is a 2 way link that replaces an ethernet cable, and bridges all traffic, wired or wireless between 2 wired networks. You can have a wireless bridge connection without client association, if you just want to replace a cable, but dont want to provide wireless access in the 2nd location

It can all be a bit confusing, if you havnt learn the basics. In the early days of wireless networking there were different physical hardware devices for all these functions e.g. you wanted a bridge, you bought a bridge, you wanted an access point, you bought an access point....

...now, as sales volumes can be low, therefore price high on such niche purpose devices, manufacturers have tried to make "access points" which support all modes; repeater, bridge, access point, wireless to ethernet bridge

to confuse matters further, the consumer market refers to devices as "routers" which are really multi function devices that include; router, wireless access point, ethernet switch, firewall etc

then for some more consumer confusion, some of these "routers" dont necessarily support all the wireless modes that a dedicated "access point" does - they just tend to do a subset :rolleyes:

IT is like the finance industry - keep it complex with lots of acronyms, so you can make a nice living out of understanding it all; 10 years ago if you could build a PC, you could make a nice living...now thats a commodity product, and commodity knowledge (any teenager can do it usually) and you can usually buy a PC far cheaper than you could build one out of bits ....

In another 10 years, no doubt basic networking skills will be commodity, common knowledge, everyone will know how to configure a basic home network with firewall, and the game will have moved on again to something else :smashin:
Nice analogy and it's absolutely true. Companies like PC World have fleeced this market where they offer services like PC building, Virus removal and installation, PC Maintenance and now with a shift to the way we watch, store and play media more and more consumers require a home network. More than the standard modem/router supplied by the ISP. Within 5-8 years or so home networking may be common knowledge but until then it is a huge learning curve and a scary prospect for novices who are understanding networking, protocols, different device uses etc.

I can only imagine that companies like PC World and other small outlets who have knowledge will supply, install and maintain home networks as part of a new service whilst rolling in the monies :eek:
 
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majnu

Member
There is only the firmware on the link to the netgear site from your link. The thread is old though.
The thread may be old but the process to flash is still the same. The DG Team always update their firmware so that is up to date from 12th April 2010 :smashin:
 

Garry123

Member
:suicide: I give up. Finally get my machine dual booting to XP and I still cannot get the recovery utility to work. It just hangs as per the picture.
 

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