1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Sky+ lipsync problem

Discussion in 'Sky Digital TV Forum' started by leng, Mar 18, 2004.

  1. leng

    leng
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Sometimes when playing back a recording I find that the lipsync is completely off. Usually, stopping and starting the recording will cure this. I believe I have seen it live, but I won't swear to that.

    Anyone else seen this, or know how to prevent it? I made a coaster the other day dumping some stuff to DVD R
     
  2. stricko

    stricko
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2004
    Messages:
    284
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Lambourn
    Ratings:
    +4
    All the time, all the time.

    Discussed at length elsewhere (see the digitalSpy PVR forum). It is a problem on live broadcast, but changing channels usually stops it. It seems to be more of a problem on Sky+ recordings, and almost appears to be embedded in the recording. It's not consistent, it's no cumulative (it doesn't get worse, it just drifts in and out). It's very frustrating. But from what I've read, there isn't a solution.
     
  3. STOWITBELOW

    STOWITBELOW
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2002
    Messages:
    1,578
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Lancashire
    Ratings:
    +49
    I wish I'd not read this )-: I get it regularly live but have never noticed on recordings. Hope I don't see it either.
     
  4. Starburst

    Starburst
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    17,838
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Ilkeston
    Ratings:
    +979
    Seen it three times (twice on sky1 and once on MTV) in 31 months of using SKY+ connected via scart to a RPTV TV and phono/optical to an amp.
     
  5. Shagga

    Shagga
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2004
    Messages:
    261
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Middlesex
    Ratings:
    +1
    Get it constantly on several channels and changing the channel doesn't help, nor does putting Sky + on standby. I was at first told it could be something to do with the Plasma but since been informed it's a Sky problem. Always happens when something good's on..? Never happened on a recording yet though.
     
  6. essex

    essex
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2004
    Messages:
    120
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Essex
    Ratings:
    +1
    My wife got this problem a couple of days ago. She said the sound was out of sync when she was watching a recorded Friends episode which made it unwatchable.

    I stopped myself explaining to her that even with proper lip syncing it would have been unwatchable anyway............

    PS also saw it 'live' whilst watching the commentators during lunch at the england v west indies test match yesterday.
     
  7. essex

    essex
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2004
    Messages:
    120
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Essex
    Ratings:
    +1
    anyone noticed it getting worse (and effecting more channels) over the last few days?
     
  8. jsmurray

    jsmurray
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Saw it for the first time yesterday.:thumbsdow
     
  9. Stereo Steve

    Stereo Steve
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2003
    Messages:
    1,914
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    UK
    Ratings:
    +7
    Me too, I put it down to changing from CRT to LCD tv yesterday but it's been fine today. Last night it came and went and was unbearable at times.
     
  10. CARLOS

    CARLOS
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2001
    Messages:
    5,927
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    WEST MIDLANDS
    Ratings:
    +1,208
    The only channel i really notice it on is UK Gold and that just seems to be out of sync all the time.
     
  11. jsmurray

    jsmurray
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Mine was on a recording. Stopped it, powered off, and back on. The same recording played back perfectly.
    Must be a software bug.
     
  12. essex

    essex
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2004
    Messages:
    120
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Essex
    Ratings:
    +1
    I have noticed the Mother of all Lip sync problems last night. I was watching a recording of the Simpsons and noticed the lip sync problem!!!!!

    I promise I have not been smoking (or drinking) anything strange, but honestly, it was so bad I noticed it from a cartoon.......

    With all these problems that SKY seem to be having, does anyone know of any companies offering warranties on these SKY+ boxes, as I seem to have had most of the major symptoms mentioned on these boards.........
     
  13. skybluescooby

    skybluescooby
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Hi all, i have just come across this problem since swapping my old thomson 32" for a new jvc 32". im getting real bad lip sync from sky news, but when i check the same channel on my other set upstairs (on a sky eye link),via rewind and re-play then re-wind and re-play main tv i dont get the lip sync problem which tells me its the tv ?? ithink
     
  14. johnblaum

    johnblaum
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Just got here so I guess lots to learn. Anyway I have 4 cheap digital freeview receivers. All have lip sync problem. Cheap so I think OK. I have cheap DVD player. Guess what. Lip Sync Problems. I have Sky+ delighted no lip sync problem. Got JVC Surround sound with Optical In. Connect this to Sky Plus DD. Lovely sound but guess what, Yes lip sync problem. In fact if I turn up TV it sounds like Bruce Almighty trying to answer everyones prayers at once. I think it is processing time and cheap means slow but i didnt expect it from JVC. Is there a cure.
     
  15. FaxFan2002

    FaxFan2002
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2003
    Messages:
    2,106
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Andover
    Ratings:
    +109
    The only cure I can think is feeding your sky+ thru an amp with audio delay features. I see it very rarely but can be cured straight way via the amp. This is seemingly a big problem on DVD player / plasma or LCD TV combo's (Although I've only seen it - heard it? - on a handful of DVD's). - do a search on the plasma tv forum.
     
  16. Nick_UK

    Nick_UK
    Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2004
    Messages:
    9,748
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    103
    Ratings:
    +270
    Any time that you encode/decode sound, it will take a little time to do it. Even NICAM is only "Near Instantaneous" (that's what the NI in NICAM stands for). We can tolerate a small delay, but when it gets longer than about 1/4 of a second, we start to notice.

    There are two issues here. The first is Sky. Lip-sync problems on Sky channels are largely down to the encoding process, and some channels are a lot worse than others. On ITV3, it is often so bad, that there is often a jump where the sound catches up with the picture ! Cheap and nasty encoding ! Not much you can do about it, except complain, and who complains ?

    The second issue is with the decoding equipment. Since not everybody gets the problem across all formats, the problem must lie in the decoder speeds. Just as in PC CPU's, a cheaper chip will not be as fast as a more expensive one, so don't expect the cheapest AV amp to work as well as the most expensive one. Many cheap plasma displays have slower chips than the expensive ones.

    If the lip-sync delay is always the same, then a delay device will cure it. However, if the lip-sync delay varies, then there is nothing you can do about it, as far as I'm aware, other than swapping out poorly performing equipment.
     
  17. FaxFan2002

    FaxFan2002
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2003
    Messages:
    2,106
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Andover
    Ratings:
    +109
    So when you getting rid of the yammy amp then - Nick? lol :D
     
  18. Nick_UK

    Nick_UK
    Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2004
    Messages:
    9,748
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    103
    Ratings:
    +270
    My Yammie amp is great. The only thing that would tempt me would be one that upscales from s-video to component and back. :)
     
  19. andyxxx

    andyxxx
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2002
    Messages:
    115
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Ratings:
    +0
    I have just taken delivery of a 50" DLP set that is having major lip sync problems on sky, and normal analogue broadcasts- so I have purchased a decent digital receiver and am still getting the problem - which of course suggests the set is faulty, but this is a replacement set (The first had the same problem and was swapped after a few days)
     
  20. Starburst

    Starburst
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    17,838
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Ilkeston
    Ratings:
    +979
    The lip-sync errors you are seeing are probably the result of the delay in the video signal after the processing introduced by the display, this is quite common on modern displays that put the video through extensive processing unlike a bog standard CRT which in comparison dumps the video straight to the electron guns:)

    If this case the audio would be ahead of the video, a suitable amplifier can be used to artificially delay the audio to match the video delay.
     
  21. andyxxx

    andyxxx
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2002
    Messages:
    115
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Ratings:
    +0
    Starburst - thanks for the input.
    The delay seems to alter (even during the same broadcast) though I can't be certain of that.
    If what you say proves to be correct, any suggestions why more people aren't noticing it with the same set?

    If this is the problem the set will be going back (I'm not stumping up another £500 plus for a replacement amp cos a tv manufacturer is selling a £2k box that does not work!)
     
  22. Starburst

    Starburst
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    17,838
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Ilkeston
    Ratings:
    +979
    As Nick UK has pointed out there are many possible reasons why lip-sync errors occur and that's compounded by the effect being less noticeable to some people.
    If the delay is indeed caused by the TV then you should be seeing a fairly uniform effect which would allow you to set an audio delay via a suitable amplifier for each video input.

    Why isn't everyone seeing the delay?
    Well I suppose that has a lot to do with the multipule digital/analogue sources, cabling, amplification, video processing and how each indivduals brain interprets the visual and audio data it receives.
    I honestly don't think there is a simple answer since I've had SKY D since it was launched in 1998 and SKY+ since 2001 I have only noticed lip-sync errors 3 times (SKY1 twice and MTV once) and I have never seen it on Freeview, DVD/VHS and analogue broadcasts but obviously it does exist.
    I do see it a lot on my own video encodes and downloaded avi/xvid clips though:)

    The question of the performance of the TV is important though, the TV can not be blamed for adding a delay to the video which then causes sync errors when the audio is processed via an external amplifier. If the audio was fed through the TV's processing and the delay was created then I would consider that to be a design flaw.
    Have you sort advice from within the DLP forum?
     
  23. David PluggedIn

    David PluggedIn
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2003
    Messages:
    544
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Ratings:
    +10
  24. HMHB

    HMHB
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2001
    Messages:
    25,516
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Nottinghamshire
    Ratings:
    +3,852
    My lip-synch problems seem to be random, but most often occur on the +1 channels of UK Gold and Paramount etc. I'm sure this must be a problem with the transmission
     
  25. Starburst

    Starburst
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    17,838
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Ilkeston
    Ratings:
    +979


    If it was then everyone would be seeing it.
    However it could be that certain broadcasts are out a few frames and then the STB introduces a few frames of error and then the TV/Amp add a further few frames of error and you get the effect you are seeing while someone else doesn't.

    The same thing happended with Pioneer DVD players in the early days, certain disks only showed lip-sync errors on those players while playing fine on other machines. The cause was found to be slight mastering errors on the discs which were being amplified by the Pioneer players while other machines handled the problem without the viewer being aware.
     
  26. HMHB

    HMHB
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2001
    Messages:
    25,516
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Nottinghamshire
    Ratings:
    +3,852
    I'll try it without the optical cable. At the moment I'm sending the sound to my DD5.1 television via the optical cable rather than to my amp, I'll try it just going through the scart for a ew weeks to see if that helps. Will I lose sound quality by just going through the scart ?
     
  27. Starburst

    Starburst
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    17,838
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Ilkeston
    Ratings:
    +979
    Depends.
    When you send the audio via a digital connection the TV/AMP uses their own DAC to process the audio, if that DAC is of better quality than the one in the digibox then you might notice a difference. You won't get DD5.1 audio via the scart of course but that's only an issue if you are a movie subscriber.
     
  28. Nick_UK

    Nick_UK
    Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2004
    Messages:
    9,748
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    103
    Ratings:
    +270
    I was wondering myself if the problem had anything to do with the way that the video was being input (i.e. component rather than s-video). I'm sure that if the problem was widespread on Optoma TV's, then a lot more people would be complaining. However, I do think that a TV should work properly, no matter which input is used.
     
  29. SILVERBACK

    SILVERBACK
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2001
    Messages:
    3,814
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    71
    Location:
    birkenhead
    Ratings:
    +73
    changed my amp from a sony 830 to a yamaha 750se and now i have lip sync issues.NEVER had them before with the 830 and the audio delay sometimes cant fix it.thanks yamaha :mad:
     
  30. andyxxx

    andyxxx
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2002
    Messages:
    115
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Ratings:
    +0
    David
    Can the felston you retail be set so it delays the sky sound without using my amplifier - as I often watch tv through the tvs speakers without the amp being on (and in anycase when playing DVDs via the amp the delay is barely noticable)

    Nick uk
    The problem is the same even when I input the analogue aerial direct into the tv as a pose to going through the sky box or Sony digital receiver.

    Starburst
    I understand what you say about different people not seeing the problem the same (I guess a bit like the rainbow effect?) but this set is that far out anybody/everybody can see it - barring a blind man!
     

Share This Page

Loading...