Sky High Definition bombshell

Discussion in 'Sky Digital TV Forum' started by HMHB, Dec 3, 2004.

  1. HMHB

    HMHB
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    Story here

    From Home Cinema News

    "Sky drops a high definition bombshell

    More news has reached us about Sky’s proposed launch of high definition programming in 2006 – and what we’re hearing will send shockwaves throughout the AV industry.

    Some of the information BSkyB revealed during a recent presentation to the Digital Interoperability Forum in Brussels seems pretty positive. For instance, BSkyB apparently announced that its service and HDTV decoder box will support BOTH 720p/50Hz AND 1080i/25Hz high definition formats, rather than just going with 720p as was previously anticipated. The choice of which HD format will be used for which HD programme is apparently going to be left to the platform’s individual broadcasters.

    However, it was when discussing how the HD signal would be delivered from the Sky decoder box to a projector/plasma TV/LCD TV that the bombshell emerged, as Sky stated that the vast majority of HDTV programming will only be viewable if carried via HDMI or DVI connections that support the HDCP digital rights protection system. In other words, if your projector or flat panel screen only has component video inputs or an HDMI/DVI jack NOT compatible with the HDCP system, it will not show the majority of Sky’s HD services.

    Sky has long been troubled by how to stop people copying its broadcasts illegally, so perhaps we shouldn't be too surprised that it's jumping at the chance to use HDCP. But the ramifications of the decision are huge for us punters, as countless flat panel TVs and projectors that don’t have the necessary digital connectivity are already proudly installed in people’s homes, presenting the buyers with the nightmare scenario of having to upgrade by 2006 a screen they thought would last them for many, many years.

    There are also many screens/projectors in shops right now that don’t have the necessary connectivity, so if you’re thinking of buying one for Christmas – or whenever! – all we can do is stress in the strongest terms that you try and choose one with an HDCP-compliant HDMI or DVI jack."
     
  2. ISHANTY

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    thats the only way they should do it i'm glad that they have gone that way
     
  3. Radiohead

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    Blimey - that's a bit of a shock. I've yet move to an HD display, and this will certainly focus the minds of a lot of buyers now.
     
  4. cloud1

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    can you get a dongle that removes hdcp or is it embedded in the stream data?
     
  5. Radiohead

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    Why - it's purely for their own benefit as far as I can see, and leaves a lot of people who have bought what they thought were HD-compatible displays out in the cold.

    I can't see how this is a good thing for consumers.
     
  6. Starburst

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    Shocker, SKY protects it's own service:)

    Seriously though, anyone following High Def would have been aware of DRM and other rights managment systems, HBO recently announced they would be protecting all their programming as well so no surprise that PAY TV broadcasters launching HD in the next few years will embrace the technology.
    It does mean there will be no analogue output on SKY HD receivers and while I've been burnt by buying into hardware before standards have been introduced/finalised you can't complain after the fact! Well you can but that's life:)

    I suspect the majority of panels sold to people in the last 6 months with HD in mind are 852*480 panels anyway so HD would be a waste of money, at least subscription HD would be:) That being said how many panels do not have a socket for a DVI (HDCP enabled) option and HDMI is starting to appear on more and more panels.

    On the plus side it's a given that there will be a SKY+ HD unit and I expect that HD-DVD and Bluray will be fully HDCP compliant.
     
  7. adspence

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    One problem I see with this, even though I already have a HDMI compatible display (Pioneer 504HDE plasma) the media box it comes with has a SINGLE HDMI input. That is, obviously, wired up with my Pioneer 868 DVD player. So even those of us with compliant displays are going to struggle with the need for an extra HDMI input on our devices, unless someone knows of a HDMI switcher unit!

    :thumbsdow

    I'd be happier with a component input on a Sky HD box as well, then I could use that instead.

    Also, 1080i/25...yuk. I've got some 720p/50 and 1080i/25 source material and the latter isn't as good, though I admit it depends on what is being shown (and of course my poor display has to scale 1080i...)
     
  8. neilneil

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    It will hurt sky though because all those early HD adopters are the ones that would have been first in the queue for Sky HD. Unless they sell their displays now and buy another screen then they will not be buying into sky HD early on.
    Joe public isn't really interested in quality enough to blow 3 grand on a display so sky may be strugleing to find subscribers.

    -Neil
     
  9. steve36

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    I understand why Sky may be making this choice, but I think that component at the least should be supported.

    So my question is do I just throw my 12 month old Panasonic PHD6 away ?
    I thought there was a chance of it being supported for more than 6 months, but Panasonic seem to actually treat the customers like dirt and change the input cards every version for what appears to the untrained eye to be purely cosmetic reasons.
    I was expecting a series-6 HDMI card, I wonder if I/we can sue the Panasonic as it appears that the product will be of no use with HD devices, and I purchased it assuming that as it was roughly HD resolution compliant I would not have a problem.

    Steve :mad: :mad: :mad:
     
  10. zAndy1

    zAndy1
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    I fail to see how we can argue about this when just about every DVD player released with a DVI/HDMI output needs a HDCP display too! I think bombshell is a bit harsh, I mean it was pretty obvious they were going to go down this route to be honest.

    Andy.
     
  11. adspence

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  12. steve36

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    Whilst I understand your point, all DVD players I know of with HDMI/DVI out also has component out.
    Sky HD according to this announcement does not appear to have component out, which would at least give some benefit to use 'old' display owners.

    I apologise for trying to hijack the thread, I think I should be raising a petition via the plasma forum against Panasonic and their lack of support for HD-6 etc displays.

    Steve.
     
  13. MC Hammer

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    What about their own Plasma they promote ?

    Don't believe it is a HD display or has the appropriate connections ?

    Any one getting one for Xmas may get a different surprise in 18 months/ 2 years ?
     
  14. Rob20

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    Not having compnent outputs is plain stupid. I've only recently bought an lcd tv that I thought would be reasonably future proof having 2 component inputs that accepted 720p/1080i (with a native res of 1366 by 768). Now I find out that my 4 month old set is not able to play hi-def material fom Sky's future service. If Sky thinks I'm gonna go out and buy a brand new set just to watch hi-def material then they've got another thing coming. Ok, so it's gonna look prettier, but the content will still be the same. I can't afford to buy another set in the near future. Thank god I only bought a 26" lcd and not a 50" plasma.

    I do wonder whether they're testing the response with this info. If there's a big enough outcry, then maybe they'll have to change their minds. It's all very well protecting content, but if practically no-one can access that material in the future what's the point? :thumbsdow
     
  15. Starburst

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    Surely the manufactures who have sold panels without suitable DVI and HDMI are to blame more than SKY?
    Granted HDMI is still quite new but DVI has been around quite a while.
    After all SKY are giving you upto 2 years warning and digital rights managment has been around for a while, long enough for the content providers to make it clear that they want more protection via hardware.

    Lets face it though, music labels have proven that they don't give a monkies about the white book standard for CD's and they waited until billions of CD players/drives were in circulation before starting to slap on anti-piracy and other rights managment systems. The fact that SKY are giving plenty of warning (totally impractical to release this news any earlier) they are making sure the consumer and manufacturers know the score and can make informed decisions.
     
  16. Rob20

    Rob20
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    Well it looks like I won't be watching Sky's hi-def tv service till 2010 at the earliest. And I was looking forward to being one of the 1st wave of customers come 2006. Still, it's their loss. Will stick with NTL. :rolleyes:
     
  17. Flimber

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    Two things:

    1. If this means cheaper non-SkyHD-compliant 50" Plasma's then great :thumbsup:
    2. Given that "1." occurs, I'm on tenterhooks to find out what the terrestrial channels have up their sleeves for HD. If it's good and can be displayed normally then Bye Bye Sky :hiya:

    Mike.
     
  18. Rob20

    Rob20
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    1) What does 1080i 25hz mean. It suggests that there are only 12.5 whole frames, split into 25 odd/even half frames.

    2) Or are they trying to indicate that it's the standard 25 frames, compared to 50 complete frames with 720p 50hz.

    3) And would 720p just show each frame twice, so there's 50 frames, but only 25 actual new frames. :confused:
     
  19. pietnoeck

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  20. Xstyle

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    is the Pioneer 435XDE safe for this use???
     
  21. mark88

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    Even if you have a DVI/HDMI ready HDTV, it's still not plain sailing. DVD players, HTPC's and now SKY are just 3 things under your telly that offer DVI/HDMI connections.

    How many TV's are there on the market that have 3 or even 2 DVI sockets?

    switchbox-o-rama
     
  22. stanleyntl

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    If you look at Pace's HD receiver on www.pace.co.uk, its spec has component, DVI, HDMI and regular scart connections.
    Surely SKY will be using Pace hardware, so other outputs ought to be supported - including downconversion to std TV. :rolleyes:
    No provision to record HD as per SKY's statement is totally nuts - no consumer will put up with that! :suicide:
     
  23. kid rock

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    Does anyone think that the launch of HDTV by sky will mean no more sky digiboxes and sky+ boxes or will there be a dual sevice operated by sky for say the next 10 years? Can the Astra satellites support this dual system?

    Kid Rock
     
  24. stanleyntl

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  25. peezee

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    :confused:

    I can't see anywhere in the BSkyB announcement (nor the Home Cinema News article) that explicitly says that the future Sky HD STB's will have NO Component (YUV) output connection, it just says HD programming would be available via HDMI only, which is slightly different...

    I would think the new STB's will support HD and SD programming via its HDMI output, and SD-only programming via the Component ouptut (and maybe Scart or Composite if they're willing to keep those alive)... or?
     
  26. steve36

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    Yes, I agree it probably will have component output, but only for SD output.
    The PACE box appears to be outputting HD via component.

    So why would most people upgrade to the new (probably more expensive) system if they have not been allowed to view the HD signal.
    Unless of course Sky closed the old satellite a la analogue, so forcing people across.

    And yes, I agree the fault does in some part lie with the manufacturers, especially of hi-end displays that should have had this in place for over 18 months, or in the case of a replacable interface card, a suitable card made available.

    Steve.
     
  27. cerebros

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    Actually, it said the vast majority of programming which suggests some things may not be HCP protected.

    I'm wondering if the rights holders have forced Sky's hand on this and insisted that certain programming must be copy protected. Probably the film companies are behind that.

    I'd guess that Sky's own programming (I'm assuming that they'll probably have a hi-def sports channel) wouldn't be HDCP
     
  28. General Skanky

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    Having literally just bought a pw6, I'm more than happy to sit back watch what happens.

    There's no rush as far as I'm concerned. So many new products to appear first.

    All the bugs etc also need to ironed out and pricing needs to drop before I'd even consider HD.

    The first HD boxes will cost the Earth, will be far too exclusive channel wise and not offer value for money imho.

    A good example for comparison would be Sky+.

    Expensive new. Took 2 years before the software appeared to allow over 137Gb drives to be properly recognised and the deal to drop to £99. Only 'then' did it become attractive to me. And before anyone says anything, the 'revolution' that Sky+ was when it came out is comparable to how we today perceive HD TV to be in the future.

    And we're not even going into the connection options. The death of Scart needs to be in full swing too!

    So at a guess I've got 4 - 5 years say before I'll be looking to be fully HD with a new display and Sky box.
     
  29. cerebros

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    Why are they more to blame than anyone else? DVI might have been around a while on computer hardware, but it's comparatively new for AV gear. The manufacturers made a product and people bought it. Unless the panels and other products were sold explicity as compatible with Sky's HD service I don't think anyone has real grounds for complaint.
     
  30. 69COU

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    The manafacturers like Panasonic are not helping
    Current Projector PT500 ( one DVI ) input.
    Their latest DVD player has 1 HDMI out.
    latest Receiver to go with this for your switching has only one HDMI in.

    So the brand new just released stuff will mean getting behind the back of your receiver and unplugging your DVD if you want to plug in SKY.

    Surely a company like Panasonic who are heavily involved in the HD TV standard may have thought you may have more than one HD source!!!

    Or maybe we have all missed something and it can be daisy chained a bit like the simple USB ports on opur computers??
     

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