Discussion in 'Sky Digital TV Forum' started by Hades, Jan 16, 2008.
Quoted from Digital Spy
It is about time... we first got SKY in 1992 as my dad bought it when they got the Premier League.
Am I right in saying its been pretty much the same "blue" EPG since then?
any idea when this will happen?
Looks like they have covered it by a wide margin
I'd read on here somewhere that the upgraded EPG will only be available on the new HD boxes coming out from Pace, Samsung and Amstrad as they will have increased on board memory / RAM to allow for the extra features.
That could be incorrect though.
Says nothing about the box brand. I would think there will be many unhappy Thomson customers if they don't get it... me included.
I'm presuming that this will be a Hi-Def EPG? Or will they keep it as now? Hope that isn't a daft question .....
Probably been the same since the sky digital launch in 1998
You'd like to think it would be in HD
I would hope so too. Using this ancient EPG on an HDTV is like using aVista with a 640x480 monitor. It looks like crap.
I am guessing the channel preview will be similar to the Anytime display.
So that part at least ought to work on any Sky+/HD box.
Some suit from sky promising something again. Will never happen!
About 6/8 months ago some suit, probably the same one said they were going to enable the usb and sata ports for additional storage and it wouldnt need to be a sky branded product.
They are just carrot dangling in order to ream you for as much money as they possibly can each month.
and "this year" could mean dec 31st...
The problem with something like the EPG is what is the incentive to Sky?
No extra money in it for them really, but there is a cost. So why bother? At the end of the day, an SD EPG isn't going to stop someone subscibing to HD is it?
nope, there was no such thing as an EPG on Sky back then, it was analogue and you could set your box up how you wanted with channels in any channel number etc
also a lot of German channels as Sky was on 19 degrees
Ah yes ... 'Film Net' via a dodgy decoder! I believe there was some interesting content on that channel. Not that I would have known anything about it of course!
Anyone using a Freeview DVR, the V+ or probably even Freesat would take one look at the SKY GUI and shudder. You are right that it's going to cost SKY money to develop and some backlash from subscribers who are left with the standard EPG but the market has moved on and faced with superior looking GUI's and in many cases functionally more flexible SKY has to spend not to get ahead but stay in contention.
Up until last week my SKY+ walked all over my Freeview DVR in terms of the DVR functions (series links, padding etc) but right now thanks to an update to the 9200 it is seriously making mince meat of the SKY front end.
My Tivo, which is nearly ten years old, still walks all over the Sky boxes in this regard.
Yeah TIVO hit the nail on the head at the first effort, damn shame SKY's rivals didn't see it as an option to counter the SKY+. The HD V+ running TIVO would have been a major draw and perhaps even Freesat but there are certainly advances in EPG/DVR integration that are gaining ground and well that sad fact is that perhaps 99% of the UK pop are unaware of TIVO so will be impressed not only with what SKY+ did back in 2001 but what Freeview and Freesat can do in 2008.
If the HD V+ ran Tivo s/w I'd have cable hooked up like a shot! Oh hang on a minute though! I forgot, there's no HD content which is why I have Sky anyway!
Couple of interesting points for those that might have forgotten, it was Sky who marketed TiVo in the UK and Thomson who made the boxes, odd they got it so wrong when launching their own branded product!
While directly involving SKY made a lot of sense TIVO were perhaps a little naive when it comes to the UK market which was simply not ready for a standalone PVR and SKY were quick to both exploit that seed of awareness with SKY+ based on a generic NDS DVR design.
Once SKY+ launched again TIVO should have moved to the cable market but again TW and NTL were cash poor and TV services were never the priority which explains why Cable only got the DVR 5 years after SKY subscribers.
Bad timing, poor marketing decisions and a very niche market all contributed to a very fine service falling flat on it's face.
IMHO, I think Sky took Tivo on in a rather cynical way, more to take it out of the market knowing that Sky+ was just around the corner. Their marketing of Tivo was very poor indeed, a major contrast to the heavy push they put behind Sky+ just a very short time after the Tivo launch. It's rather simplistic and IMHO factually untrue to say that the market wasn't ready for a PVR.
I still use my Tivo to find TV programs to record. Searching by channel, title and wishlist. Wishlist enables me to search by actor, director and key word. It's still light years ahead of Sky. It bugs me everytime I delve into the Sky EPG to look for a program to record. The worst thing is not being able to overlay the EPG over what you're watching, that does my head in.
Say you're into cooking Indian Food. How would you go about finding programs on the subject via Sky, answer .... you can't! I can search on curry, curries or Indian food on my Tivo and catch all the upcoming programs across all the channels I receive. What about all you guys re-setting your series links for the new series of Torchwood? No need on the Tivo, because the 'season pass' previously set up will automatically pick up the new series and of course will only show 'first run' episodes and not 'repeats' if that's how you set the season pass up. As I said earlier, this is software from nearly 10 years ago, I'll bet the new Sky EPG still won't come near to the functionality of the Tivo EPG.
Perhaps which is why I consider TIVO to have been a little naive, yes the SKY subscriber was the obvious market they were going for (cable was too fragmented and DTT too small) so a tie in with SKY made sense (cheaper to admin and a captive market) yet they ended up partial funding the DVR awareness campaign which led to the SKY+ (and unlike the US where TIVO established itself thanks to more Sat and Cable multi-channel suppliers) it didn't get the beach head in the UK especially at the initial price.
So I fully agree, SKY probably knew early on that a generic DVR was on the way and played TIVO like amateurs.
If the market was ready for TIVO then they wouldn't have had to do any tie-ins with anyone, TIVO were breaking new ground in a market that had no idea what a PVR was or even if they needed one.
Even now the DVR has had to fight tooth and nail to get accepted, it may even be said that it'll be analogue switch off that finally confirms the UK market is ready for mass adoption of the DVR concept.
TIVO was a 21st century product launched in the 20th century to an analogue audience who were still in love with the VCR and being smitten by the DVDr, it was perhaps too far ahead of it's time.
i just hope the pip works better than the anytime one which is truely awefull, terrible lag and the whole page flickers like crazy as you move up and down each item ...
Yeah I've read some people have that problem, mine has smooth playback but obviously a little delay as the box locates and plays back the pre-recorded Anytime video segment when you scroll through the programming.
The new EPG would be taking the "Live" feed from one the LNB inputs while running the EPG from internal storage perhaps with real time updating if the second tuner is available so it should all be smooth playback. The only question mark is if there are conflicts when handling SD or HD PIP in a HD GUI, that provides room for failure
Of course the market was ready for Tivo, every Sky digital subscriber was a potential customer. Who wouldn't want to pause live TV and record programs without video tape! They just needed to be informed and sold to!
Tivo had to target Sky's digital customer base and with no infrastructure in the UK, linking with Sky was a 'no brainer'. What Tivo didn't know and I'm not sure it was down to naieveity, was Sky's plans to bring out their own PVR (Sky+), albeit an inferior PVR but obviously with better margins for Sky. Sky obviously knew that the market was ready for for a PVR, they just wanted it to be theirs. Eliminating Tivo from the scene was a shrewd move on Sky's part, unfortunately detrimental to their subscribers in that you were right, Tivo was a 21st century product launched in the 20th Century, Sky+ EPG features still need to catch up!
I think the current market for DVR's shows that the UK mass market were simply not ready to ditch the good old VHS nearly a decade ago and even now less than 50% of SKY subscribers have SKY+, Freeview takeup percentage wise is even lower and the percentage of VM customers with V+ is even less.
BTVision is 100% DVR of course
So the market wasn't ready ...... that's why Sky introduced Sky+ then!
Which sold in rather pathetic numbers (until the price and sub were reduced) which does indicate the market wasn't ready for the DVR concept in 2001.
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