1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Sky HD - are 720/60p, 1080/60i and 1080/50i inputs compatible?

Discussion in 'Sky Digital TV Forum' started by Dizagaox, Sep 17, 2005.

  1. Dizagaox

    Dizagaox
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2005
    Messages:
    31
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Ratings:
    +4
    Hey everyone,

    Just as the title says, are these input signals compatible?

    My Hitachi 42PMA400e is compatible with these through analogue componants, but Sky HD uses 720p/50 and 1080i/25.

    Firstly, the "i" is in a different place, and also the denominator is less than the ones on my list. I'm not sure what it means.

    Thanks.
     
  2. loadsofleads

    loadsofleads
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Have a search for 'Hitachi PD5200', owners of these plasmas (me being one!)have been scratching our heads wondering if they are compatible also. Only time will tell......... :(
     
  3. richard plumb

    richard plumb
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2002
    Messages:
    14,340
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Location:
    Windsor
    Ratings:
    +1,027
    looks like its missing 720p/50?

    That'll lose it HD Ready status. It'll probably make it incompatible with Sky, as 720p/50 is a likely candidate for their sports.

    You might get away with it if you can set the box to output 1080i, but we don't know yet.
     
  4. Dizagaox

    Dizagaox
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2005
    Messages:
    31
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Ratings:
    +4
    It does it at 60, not 50 (so 720p/60) which. In all cases, it uses more frame-rate.
     
  5. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
    Distinguished Member AVForums Sponsor

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    13,983
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Living in Surrey, covering UK!
    Ratings:
    +2,788
    1080i25 should be read as 1080i50.
    If the box can be set to output a constant resolution regardless of content then you may be OK as Richard says. Interlacing 720P and scaling to 1080i in the STB may not be the best idea though.

    Gordon
     
  6. Dizagaox

    Dizagaox
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2005
    Messages:
    31
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Ratings:
    +4
    Well for Sky HD you need both, so as long as 1080i/25 and 720p/50 are compatible, it should work through componant cables.
     
  7. Dizagaox

    Dizagaox
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2005
    Messages:
    31
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Ratings:
    +4
    I've bumped this thread to ask another question:

    Many people have been saying "you don't need to upscale" if you have 720p/60 or 1080i/50, as 720p/25 and 1080i/50 fit within it, but then some say otherwise.

    Basically, mine is compatible with American HDTV 100% - but for some reason, Sky have a lower frame rate.

    Does this mean I can't watch Sky HD? Can someone give me a finite answer?
     
  8. ManThatYouFear

    ManThatYouFear
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2005
    Messages:
    61
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Ratings:
    +0
    while on the subject but yet NOT how much is this HD sky box going to cost us poor goits?
     
  9. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
    Distinguished Member AVForums Sponsor

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    13,983
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Living in Surrey, covering UK!
    Ratings:
    +2,788
    Sky have a lower frame rate as Europe is a 50Hz area and USA is a 60Hz country. 720P/50 sent to a display that supports 720/60 will not get you an image....well it might if you're really lucky but I'd say it's a pretty safe bet you wont.

    Gordon
     
  10. Rimmer

    Rimmer
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    European TV runs at 50Hz. American TV runs at 60Hz. There are no plans whatsoever to up the European field/frame rate to 60Hz.

    Your TV is partly compatible with Sky HD in that it can take a 1080i50 input. The question is what happens with 720p50. As described above the STB may have an option to convert 720p50 to 1080i50, but no one really knows at this stage.
     
  11. Dizagaox

    Dizagaox
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2005
    Messages:
    31
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Ratings:
    +4
    Yeh, so I guess it's reccommended i get one of those upscalers, right?

    Or should I wait until Telewest/NTL reveal more about their STB, cos' it might do 720p/60 - i think this cos' the box NTL is using is an internationally used one too.

    It's a safe bet I guess that Sky Sports and Sky One will be HD on all the HD services, but would there be any considerable difference in terms of quality between Sky's HD signal and NTL/Telewest's HD signal?
     
  12. Stephen Neal

    Stephen Neal
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2003
    Messages:
    6,080
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Ratings:
    +681
    The NTL box may have facilities to receive and output 1080/60i and 720/60p - but I would expect this is only to be compatible with broadcasts in these formats in 60Hz regions. The UK (and the rest of Europe) will be 50Hz for their HD broadcasts (and the European HDTV certification for receivers only requires 50Hz modes, though the HD Ready certification for displays requires both 50 and 60 inputs.

    Just because the NTL box can output 60Hz video doesn't mean it will when fed 50Hz - and to be honest you wouldn't want it to. Broadcasters spend US$10,000s on standards converters to do this - a low quality set-top-box job will be juddery and not great for HD quality.

    I think your best hope is the Sky box allowing a permanent 1080/50i output (which is 1080i/25 in other peoples language)... Whether it will do this or not, we'll have to wait and see.
     
  13. pez

    pez
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2004
    Messages:
    776
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Location:
    Newport
    Ratings:
    +27
    Not sure anyones mentioned it yet, but the rumours im hearing are that unless you have an HDCP complient HDMI port, you wont get any hidef content out of a sky hidef box.

    pez
     
  14. Welwynnick

    Welwynnick
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2005
    Messages:
    7,084
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Location:
    Welwyn, Herts
    Ratings:
    +825
    That's not quite true. For the many people who have HD displays without HDCP compliant DVI and HDMI inputs, the first generation Sky HD box will have HD capable component outputs. Future versions will not.

    The two questions that haven't been answered are whether all or only some of the HD material will be available over component, and for how long it will be available.

    As it stands, HD displays with component inputs will be able to take some HD programming from Sky, but if you were buying a new TV, you would be ill-advised to depend on it.

    Nick
     
  15. Starburst

    Starburst
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    17,838
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Ilkeston
    Ratings:
    +979


    Yep, at this time SKY will only confirm that all their own channels will be accessible in HD via component, other broadcasters that choose to use the SKY platform have the option to follow suit or specify HDMI HD output only.
    The question on how long SKY will allow HD over component would depend upon pressure from the US distributors although there will be issues if SKY decided to use HDMI only and there were existing HD subscribers who still had panels that relied on component.
    It may be that the HD via component will simply not be an option for the second generation STB thus allowing SKY to control access without risking alienating an existing user base.
     
  16. philthyanimal

    philthyanimal
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    keene electronics do a box that will accept a dvi input with hdcp and output it via vga. this will get round the hdcp and 50hz, at least it wil for pw7 owners
     
  17. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
    Distinguished Member AVForums Sponsor

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    13,983
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Living in Surrey, covering UK!
    Ratings:
    +2,788
    Will it? I think you need to wait till the Sky box is available and it's been tried before saying that......there are plenty of cases of these HDCP stripping devices not working with some products DVI and HDMI outputs. You are probably correct but bests let someone else waste their money first.....

    Gordon
     
  18. GrahamMG

    GrahamMG
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2004
    Messages:
    4,449
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    UK
    Ratings:
    +192
    Yep a truely perfect answer Gordon, although using VGA/HDMI convertors are likely to gain in popularity no-one can promise anything will work these days due to the "great God" copy protection. I actually asked SKY man and Thompson and neither knew..... Methinks that a SKY HD service in time for the world cup is not a safe bet currently.......
     
  19. philthyanimal

    philthyanimal
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    you probably right gordon. think i'll wait for someone to test it
     
  20. StooMonster

    StooMonster
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2002
    Messages:
    4,970
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    Kent
    Ratings:
    +314
    I heard Sky were shocked by results of a survey that showed them how many potential HD customers only had 50Hz input over analogue, i.e. the vast majority. Component outputs may be around for longer than you think. However, to ensure this it's probably a good thing to sign-up with SkyHD's website and Currys etc and select option that you only have component and don't have HDMI.

    I also believe it will be difficult for them to turn off HD on these outputs because customers will complain like mad, and they could even be in trouble with Sale Of Goods And Services Act.

    Ring Ring
    Customer: "My Sky HD has stopped working, the screen is blank on the movie I've just paid for"
    Sky: "What is your connection?"
    Customer: "Dunno"
    Sky: "Three wires, or one wire with rectangular end?"
    Customer: "Three wires"
    Sky: "Because you have analogue connection to your display, and can not resolve a HDCP signal, you need to use HDMI"
    Customer: "But my telly doesn't have that"
    Sky: "You need to use HDMI connection to view, you could buy a new television"
    Customer: "But I only bought this telly last year, I want money back for movie and to cancel HD now"

    StooMonster
     
  21. Starburst

    Starburst
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    17,838
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Ilkeston
    Ratings:
    +979


    Exactly.

    It'll probably be left to the SKY+ HD software to control the access of HD over component and HDMI as requested by the broadcasters.
    SKY can then still allow HD over component on the first gen box while preventing it on the second gen box which would I suspect meet any demands by the content providors.

    A little juggling to make sure a first gen SKY+ owner got like for like if required and that should tide everyone over until such time as HDCP equipped displays were all that were left or when HDCP is dropped after proving rather weaker than the designers hoped for:)
     
  22. StooMonster

    StooMonster
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2002
    Messages:
    4,970
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    Kent
    Ratings:
    +314
    Agree BSkyB have probably got waivers with content owners and broadcasters that only first-gen boxes output unencrypted Component HD video.

    But I don't think it will be that complex, i.e. having software control access.

    It's possible that first-gen boxes will output HDMI (with HDCP) and Component and later-gen boxes simply won't have Component connectors.

    Simpliest, easiest and cheapest to implement methinks.

    StooMonster
     
  23. Dizagaox

    Dizagaox
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2005
    Messages:
    31
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Ratings:
    +4
    Well, as long as they do permanant 1080i signals, i'm fine - I think they will, because most of the shows they announced today as HD are broadcast 1080 in the US. Plus, 720 boosted to 1080 is better than no HD at all.
     
  24. Xcelsia

    Xcelsia
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2007
    Messages:
    3
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Ratings:
    +0
    I was working on a project recently whereby we had a problem of Sky boxes colour syncing with screens (had either, red, blue or green wash). I though it may be down to HDCP so disconnected the HDMI cables and installed component. For starter the colour problem remained and was simply down to the colour not syncing correctly with Pioneer on start up; had to power both down and leave off for a couple of minutes and then turn the sky box on and let it run a while before turning the screen on - trick to overcome this was to ensure the sky boxes were left running at all times. Secondly, when i connected the component, colour was still a porblem but i also found that when changing from SD and HD channels the picture was scrambled. Basically with that particular box you could NOT watch HD content over component, everything else was fine.

    I recently tried this again with a different box and it worked fine over component for both SD and HD. To be on the safe side i will stick with HDCP compliant HDMI without any HDCP stripping boxes etc. Cant wait for Crestrons PVID with HDMI later ths year! Strange why it would happen on one and not the other.
     
  25. Stephen Neal

    Stephen Neal
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2003
    Messages:
    6,080
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Ratings:
    +681
    All current HD broadcasts on Sky HD are 1080/50i - there are no 720/50p broadcasts on satellite in the UK at the moment.

    Most US drama (even the stuff originally shot for 720p networks like ABC and Fox) is shot 1080/24p (and sped up to 1080/25p for broadcast as 50i). Most European drama is shot 1080/25p and broadcast as 1080/50i. European sport and entertainment shows are shot 1080/50i native.

    The only 720/50p native sources in the UK are some games on some consoles I believe...

    *** JUST SEEN HOW OLD THIS THREAD IS ***
     

Share This Page

Loading...