sky hd and PHD8

Discussion in 'Sky Digital TV Forum' started by golden phoenix, Mar 26, 2006.

  1. golden phoenix

    golden phoenix
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    The phd8 im told doesnt do native resolution at 50 htz.

    how will sky hd outputting a 50 htz 720 or 1080i signal look on the phd8....will there be upscaling involved and can it accept these signals at 50 htz over a digital input anyway?

    remember no external scaler.

    thanks!
     
  2. choddo2006

    choddo2006
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    Only over HDMI/DVI. Yes it can accept both 720p/50 and 1080i/50 on those.

    This is why I'm using analog out of my scaler and I'm praying most content on Sky won't be encrypted until there's a solution for this.
     
  3. Piers

    Piers
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    Yet to see Sky HD, but from Euro 1080 aka HD1, both 720p and 1080i @ 50 Hz into both the HDMI and DVI cards on a PHD8 look very good.

    As you haven't got a scaler (yet???) choddos comment need not worry you!
     
  4. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand
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    Hello brownieeyes

    Seeing as SKY HD will be outputting both 720P and 1080i at 50Hz via YPbPr (for now) and HDMI (now and in the future) you'd require more than one Display if you wanted everything to be viewed at the Native Resolution of the source signal :)

    720P and 1080i sources look good on the PHD8 and as you surmise your relying on the Displays own video processing engine to remap the Input signals to the Displays 1024x768 pixels.

    The TY-42TM6DB (DVI) and TY-FB8HM (HDMI) Boards will both accept 720P and 1080i HDCP and non HDCP signals at both 50Hz and 60Hz - additionally they will accept 1024x768P at 60Hz.

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  5. golden phoenix

    golden phoenix
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    thanks for clearing that up guys.

    piers once i have my sky HD and my PS3 i will be booking you in for calibration. hopefully xmas 2006!!!:clap:
    provided you are not in the bahamas.

    on the subject of the phd8, i know there is a thread already on comparisons with px60 pv600.
    have any of you calibrators had a chance for a comparison? if not what are your general thoughts?

    when are the specs for the new panel model available (i know the actual display normally isnt released until about september time. do we know if the PHD9 will be accepting native res 1024 x 768 at 50 htz on this new model? as this could pursuade me to break the bank and get a scaler, sell my phd8 for newer model.

    is the compromise over the 50 htz an issue for those of you with scalers and phd8?
     
  6. fid

    fid
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    Is it better to connect sky hd to the phd8 via component or is it better to buy a HDMI/DVI blade to connect it up?
     
  7. choddo2006

    choddo2006
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    I don't reckon it's worth spending £120 or whatever on an HDMI blade until we see if the pain of HDCP kicks in.
     
  8. fid

    fid
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    That's what I was thinking

    Just trying to work out whether it's better to input the sky hd through the component board (in which case I'm going to need a component controller as my dvd player already uses that) or get a component to vga lead and do it that way
     
  9. Mr.D

    Mr.D
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    I'll probably use component for Sky HD and xbox360 on mine , hdmi will be reserved for blu-ray , hd-dvd and HTPC once they get hdcp sorted on the graphic cards.
     
  10. flexiondotorg

    flexiondotorg
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    Hi Joe,

    The last I heard was the HDMI blade would accept 720p/1080i/p at 50hz and 60hz, but would not accept natve resolution at any refresh rate.

    Wheres the DVI blade accepts 720p/1080i/p at 50hz and 60hz and also accepts native resolution at 60hz only.

    I can confirm the DVI blade behaviour as that it what I use but I am interested to know if the HDMI blade has been confirmed to offer that same input signal/refresh rates as the DVI blade now?
     
  11. choddo2006

    choddo2006
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    The PDF says the HDMI supports "VGA60" whatever that means
     
  12. golden phoenix

    golden phoenix
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    Anyone ?????:lease:
     
  13. datsunman

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    I'm interested in this too brownieeyes, held off purchasing a PHD8 but am now not so sure of the PX60, hopefully someone will get one calibrated soon so we can hear about the results! :)
     
  14. choddo2006

    choddo2006
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    I'm not compromising, I'm using native res at 50Hz.

    Over RGBHV.
     
  15. gizlaroc

    gizlaroc
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    I agree, a Version 1 Dtrovision hdmi-vga transcoder looks better on the panasonics than going straight in on dvi/hdmi anyway, whether using 720/1080 or native.
     
  16. flexiondotorg

    flexiondotorg
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    I have my Lumagen VisionDVI connected to just DVI blade in my PHD8. FRC'ing PAL DVD and Freeview to [email protected] (native res) introduces hardly any motion judder when using VIDEO de-interlacing on the Lumagen. We watch 90% of stuff using this FRC'd mode, it looks great!

    However, for sport (particularly football and snooker) I switch to [email protected] which has no motion judder and the picture quality differences compared with native res are minor.

    When I decided to buy the PHD8 in November 2005, I did worry that I was making a compromise but since Lumagen fixed VIDEO de-interlacing when FRC'ing (in December 2005) then everything has been peachy and I have no regrets.

    I am hoping that the Lumagen engineers are able to resolve the minor issues that remain with AUTO de-interlacing SD material, which aren't critical as using VIDEO de-interlacing has proved to be a good "fix" so far.

    Now, here is the really interesting point. The DVI blade in my PHD8 is the same model that was used in the PHD6 and PHD7, neither of which would accept [email protected] or [email protected], yet using that same card in my PHD8 it can display [email protected] and [email protected]

    So, the question is this; Will a new release of the DVI blade for the PHD8/9 be able to display a native res signal at both 50hz and 59.94hz on the PHD8, or is the inability to display native res at 50hz a limitation of the panel itself?
     
  17. Mr.D

    Mr.D
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    I don't think native res is so important on the PHD8. The panel is designed to downscale from inception anyway by virtue of its non-square pixels and less than full hidef resolution.
     
  18. flexiondotorg

    flexiondotorg
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    The first time I used the DVI blade the picture was horrific because the defaults for the blade were bonkers, sharpness was way up for example which really exagerated artifacts in broadcast material. Once those settings were made more sane the differences between DVI and VGA were more subtle.

    From the testing I did I couldn't see any huge differences, although there were slight differences of VGA vs. DVI.

    Using DVI enables the PHD8 can display a larger range of shades of grey which results in better piture detail for low lit/dark and high contrast scenes.

    The VisionDVI has 10-bit processing for analogue outputs and 8-bit for digitial outputs. As a result, some scenes can exhibit slightly more colour banding when using DVI. But since having the system ISF'd colour banding is a thing of the past.
     
  19. gizlaroc

    gizlaroc
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    Mr. D, when you see a Panny panel pixel mapped perfectly with a decent processor there is a huge difference, I am not just talking about sending it the correct resolution but actually pixel mapping it 1:1.

    remix_88, I really can not see any reason to use dvi on the panny at all, if you have a scaler and watch any pal material it becomes even less appealing.
     
  20. Mr.D

    Mr.D
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    My PHD8 is 1:1. However I see very little difference feeding it 1368x768 instead to get the pixels square. Desktop slightly sharper at 1024x768 ( but not so much that it outweighs the square pixels) but differences on video material are slight to say the least.
     
  21. gizlaroc

    gizlaroc
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    You surprise me, I notice quite a jump between feeding the screen 1366x768 and feeding it 1366x768 and get it pixel mapped, having said that, it became really noticeable when I put the Crystalio scaler and SDI modded my kit.

    (I am using the 50PHD8 hence 1366x768 is native for me)
     
  22. choddo2006

    choddo2006
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    Hang on, say that again. What's the difference?
     
  23. gizlaroc

    gizlaroc
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    Too many people think that if you send the screen its native resolution that it is then pixel mapped, it is not. You then have to adjust the horizontal and vertical size to get it to snap in.
    You may also have to adjust the front porch, back porch and the sync width to get it looking correct.
    As soon as you actually get it to snap in the processing and scaling on the plasma is bypassed and the image looks so much sharper.
    I am amazed at how many set ups I see with scalers in them that are not pixel mapped, and the people using them don't even know, they have been running them like that for ages too.
     
  24. Mr.D

    Mr.D
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    I'm quite sure mine is pixel mapped with 1024x768.

    With 1368x768 I actually overscan a pixel either side of the display although with the non-square pixels on the PHD8 its more like 1.3 pixels. I also don't bother with anything other than 60Hz , the frame repeats do not bother me in the slightest in spite of trying to get irked by them it just doesn't bother me or anyone else in the house.
     
  25. innerise

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    Having just configured a new Shuttle PC with my 42PHD8, i'm also confused about this.

    The native res of my PHD8 is 1024x768. When I connect the PC to the Panny via DVI-to-HDMI at 1024x768, the display is absolutely sharp and fills the screen entirely. Just as it is on my TFT, in fact. The only problem is that the image is stretched horizontally due to the non-square pixels of the panel. I don't need to do any adjustments to make the display 'snap' (and by this, I assume you mean snap to a sharp, well-defined image). In fact, any adjustments I do make causes the image to become fuzzy.

    To get a non-stretched image, I feed the panel a non-native res and let it scale down, which gives me a slightly softer, but ratio-perfect display.

    Now, how can this not be 1:1 pixel mapping, when the content of exactly 1 pixel from the PC is filling the content of exactly 1 pixel on the panel, albeit elongated?

    Please help me understand...I don't even remember my dissertation being this difficult :)
     
  26. choddo2006

    choddo2006
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    ah ok - yeah the vp30 has good test patterns for that, showing horiz lines & vertical lines and you get very clear banding when it's not right
     
  27. gizlaroc

    gizlaroc
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    :rotfl:


    If you are feeding it with DVI from a htpc you may find it is right straight away??? Mine defintley was not, I had to actually go into the service menu to get the horizontal size small enough. But on a HTPC the edid may get the timings spot on for you, but with a scaler you have to get it there yourself.

    Download the Nokia Test Pattern from here.........

    http://www.freepctech.net/files/Nokia.zip

    and run that, this will show you exactly when the screen is 1:1 mapped.
     
  28. Mr.D

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    Its possible with DVI that the panel is smart enough to read the resolution and just snap it onto the panel I suppose. I certainly don't have to monkey about with my HS20 when its pixel mapped over DVI. What gizlaroc is talking about is getting the pixel timings correct when you feed an analogue signal ( vga) into the panel for pixel mapping purposes ; 1024x768 for the 42 , 1366x768 for the 50.

    The way to do it is adjust the picture lineup control so that the image is neither under or overscanning the panel ie one pixel in the signal maps to one pixel on the display. Then adjust the dot clock settings ( I forget what they are on the panel but its probably something like CLK and phase). Than if that doesn't get you there ( it probably will) you can adjust the equivalent settings on the source ( the one's giz mentioned) probably in powerstrip for a PC and perhaps availabel in some scalers as well

    Ironically I found the SD panels map better to 856x480 with two pixels either side lost in overscan rather than the 852x480 of the panel. Same with panasonic ae100 I seem to recall.

    I prefer the marc rehjon dila calibration pattern ( google it) but remember to tile it as the desktop backround rather than stretch to fit.
     
  29. golden phoenix

    golden phoenix
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    bloody hell i started the thread and now im lost. but since were taking about getting the best picture, i would like some advice on what i intend to do, so some feedback from giz, mr d, maw, choddo, remix 88, joe ferdnand, liam,piers etc. and av gurus would be much appreciated.

    you can see from my sig the kit i have (all new)

    i intend to get sky HD

    hopefully i was going to use PS3 as my dvd + blue ray player.


    i have 1 hdmi blade/1 scart blade.


    please tell how can i get this native res at 1.1 pixel mapping from all sources. remember no scaler, but i do intend on calibration. is this possible just being calibrated or is a scaler a must to achieve this?

    if you could provide all possible solutions, with and without scaler and lead set ups this would be great. please an idiot guide for the novice

    i really would be grateful if you would address my set up/issues

    thanks in advance.
     
  30. flexiondotorg

    flexiondotorg
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    I will be adding some HDCP kit hence my requirement for DVI. I am an information security analyst by profession, I have done my homework and I am not prepared to gamble on a HDCP stripper.

    As i mentioned in an earlier post native res look great, even when FRC'ing from 50hz to 59.94hz, although for sport I have then option of using [email protected]
     

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