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Size of DV footage

Discussion in 'Camcorders, Action Cams & Video Editing Forum' started by crawf1982, Dec 6, 2002.

  1. crawf1982

    crawf1982
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    Just started editing DV video on my PC using Pinnacle Studio 8. I captured about 30mins of footage to my hard disk and it takes up about 4.5Gb - almost a full DVD.

    This surprised me a little as I have read that using a Panasonic DMR-E30 (or similar) you can record 2 hours of footage to a DVD in SP mode which is all but indistinguishable from the broadcast programme.

    I assume the data is just encoded in a different way, but can I use Pinnacle Studio 8 to get similar results? If I were to write a DVD using the programme is that when the encoding takes place

    If I can only get 30 mins of footage onto a DVD using my PC I will definitely be getting myself a stand-alone player in the neat future.

    Cheers
     
  2. Choddo

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    DVDs use MPEG2 which is roughly 1/4 or smaller the size as it is compressed versus DV but, given the right parameters, fairly close in quality. You've obviously seen how good the quality of MPEG2 can be when professional production techniques are used on movies.

    Some packages include MPEG2 encoding and DVD authoring in one program or suite, but most people seem to like to use specialised tools for each stage of the process. See my thread asking about DVD writing from a couple of days ago for some links

    C
     
  3. MarkE19

    MarkE19
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    1Gb of disk space will give approx. 4 minutes of DV footage.:eek:

    When writing to a DVD the footage is converted from DV to MPEG2 and is compressed, therefore taking a lot less space. You should get around 2hours of footage onto a recordable DVD.

    Mark.
     
  4. JayX

    JayX
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    i run a 120gb harddisk, and capture using MainConcept DV codec (226mb/minute, so agreeing with the 4mins=1gb argument) i rarely need to cap more than about an hour (sometimes 90min if LP) at a time, and an hour is around 12-13gb.

    perform all my edits, render, so another 12gb used. then filter in Vdub, so another 13gb (altho you can delete the first file at this stage, but its a hassle if you've messed up somewhere just to recap it) and then using TMPGenc encode to X/SVCD for archive.

    its not that bad to be honest, a 40gb partition in NTFS should be fine for single projects.
     
  5. MartinImber

    MartinImber
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    My first experiments in video caputure resulted in 1.2 GB per minute.

    720x568 AVI

    analogue source
     
  6. MartinImber

    MartinImber
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    My first experiments in video caputure resulted in 1.2 GB per minute.

    720x568 AVI

    analogue source
     
  7. JayX

    JayX
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    use a different codec then :)
     
  8. MartinImber

    MartinImber
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    MPEG2 gave me blocking problems.

    Anything else but AVI at 720x576 seemed to lose quality.

    And this is off a 20 year old design portable video recorder.

    Can anyone guess what model it is?
     
  9. Xeonic

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    S*ny??
    You don't work for S*ny, do you :)

    Try encoding the DV with tmpegenc, tutorials on DVD Digest. When optimised, and using bitrates over 7Mbps, the quality can be up there with native DV. As choddo said, DVDs are encoded using MPEG-2, and some of these look pretty good to me at 1/4 size of DV.
     
  10. Choddo

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    In fact it must be a lot less than a 1/4 going from what these guys are saying - what's a dual layer DVD then? 9 Gig? So that's 3 hours of LOTR in 9 gig which is 50 Meg per minute, only 1/20 of the DV space - impressive stuff, innit :)

    A Gig per minute is frightening, need to order me an IBM 180GXP or that 200 Gig drive from Western Dig (I think)

    By the way, you mention NTFS - is 2000/XP a lot better for video editing then? I've been sticking with olde worlde WinME as I had some stability problems with games under XP but I can see myself doing a lot of video editing - should I risk it again?

    Thanks
    C
     
  11. JayX

    JayX
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    martin ::

    just because you need to use AVI doesn't mean you have to use standard uncompressed AVI drivers.. theres plenty of different codecs that use the AVI file extension that are a lot better for this kind of work...

    try using either huffyuv (very popular, altho i switched from analog to digital before i had change to mess with it properly) or try the codec i use which is MainConcept DV

    http://www.mainconcept.com/codecs.shtml

    its at the bottom of the page. the demo will include a little "MainConcept" logo at the top, but i have an integrated version in my software which doesn't, and i find if i need to use the demo, i usually crop the top off anyway heh :p

    i cap in 720x576 usually as well, and this codec gives me great quality from my DV cam at 226mb/min which is ideal. give it a shot, you wont lose any of your current codecs (in fact, its a great idea to have as many codecs as you can on the system, so you can experiment with lots of different things)

    choddo ::

    if you have up to date hardware, which is generally standard, then get the hell out of WinME :) even if your hardware is old, its a better idea to switch back to Win98SE (generally the best of the 9x OS')

    the main improvement with NTFS is that you have no minimum filesizes. when your dealing with an hour of DV, this is a godsend heh :) NTFS does bring more of a risk with it, as data recovery is harder if the damn thing crashes, but its only happened to me once (40gb :( )

    the 2k/xp base is a lot lot faster and stabler than 9x, you just have to make sure you have the hardware to back it.
     
  12. MartinImber

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    I tried to reply last night! - ISDN or web site was down

    Anyway I have tried TMPGEnc - rather good I thought.

    my 1.2 GB file compressed to 75MB including sound and looked better!

    I'm going to split VF1 over two DVD-R with 95 minutes on each - this will allow about 4500 to 5000 kbps average.

    Two pass VBR is good - running in best mode does a good job. However with a 2.4 GHz processor and 512MB Ram it still takes about 19 minutes per minute.

    So I will load in 20 minutes - compress then delete AVI - then when I obtain burning software I'll do the discs.

    What has suprised me is how well Beta footage has survived and how well it imports into the PC environment.

    I remember comparing my HVC4000P/SLF1UB combo with a VHSC combo and also a Panasonic camera with integrated Vhs recorder.

    1) Copy of copy of original better than Vhs copy of original, also that camera tended to go green!

    2) I had a worse lux value but kept colour a lot longer!
     
  13. Choddo

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    Couple of questions occur then as I'm a beginner;
    I captured 4 hours of DV last night using Studio8 with the default (unchangable) DV capture settings. The resulting files were about 226 MB/min - 4 Gigs max file size under FAT32 gave me 17:55 each - I assume that is just standard for DV ? Just that playback of that AVI using Media Player gives me a 360x280 image - what's that all about?
    Using realPlayer I get a larger image which looks about 720x576 but haven't checked, but there's some very nasty horizontal interlacing visible.

    This codec business is mind boggling.

    and I think my hardware is ok (Athlon 1.5, 512 Megs of DDR, 126 Gigs in 2 drives, GeForce3) so I might just try the upgrade tonight. It went badly wrong last time, still got in on dual boot & blue screens every time I choose XP - problem with the nvidia driver I think :/
     
  14. JayX

    JayX
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    heh tell me about hardware problems with xp.. when i had my IWILL board (£150 motherboard at the time) it refused to work with XP, i stripped the entire pc down flashed the bios, etc etc .. no work.

    so how did i fix it?

    i blew the motherboard up whilst tired after a overclocking experiment gone very wrong. caused £400 worth of damage and couldn't afford the same mobo, replaced it with a Soltek.. winxp works fine lol :)

    as for the filesizes.. sounds about right. i've never edited with FAT32 , and never wish too (altho i generally cap 3-4mins at a time (i mainly film bands)) and yeah , when i view my raw AVIs in Sasami ( my fave media player ) it decides that normal is 352x288 . i presume this is to avoid interlacing problems, as all video captured in DV is very badly interlaced.

    best way to solve this problem, either deinterlace in your editing suite if you can, or get vdub (virtualdub , its free and it's your best friend. simply wonderful) goto Filters, add Deinterlace (default option will be correct) and set the compression to the usual codec you use (it'll default to some crazy uncompressed thing that'll be huge, so make sure u set it) then hit F7 ("Save AVI") and let it process.

    its fun to watch the deint process on the monitor :D

    and yeah, im still learning too.. but i'm used to dealing with codecs and mpeg/avi files a lot anyway, so its not quite so daunting heh :)
     
  15. Choddo

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    Very interesting and makes a lot of sense, thanks.

    I assume that even without using vdub (thanks for the tip) the interlacing problem goes away when the same footage is viewed on a TV for obvious reasons, it's just that a monitor, being progressive scan, shows it up?

    Chods
     
  16. JayX

    JayX
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    i think it has to do with the way things are authored.. like, a dvdrip on the pc will be interlaced, but on tv its fine.. but converting it to SVCD without deint'ing will display it interlaced on the TV..

    so i guess the spec for DVD allows you to view an interlaced source without problems, but SVCD wont. i've never not deinterlaced my footage before burning, so im not 100% sure, but i imagine if burnt to SVCD it'd be interlaced on the tv as well.
     
  17. Xeonic

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    Yep. you're 99% there :)

    The easier way to look at it is that a PC monitor is non-interlaced (in non-interlaced mode, obviously!) and a standard TV is interlaced.

    Whether the file (SVCD,DVD e.t.c) is deinterlaced or not, it will be displayed as interlaced on the TV, because that what is can show.
    Similarly the same file will be displayed as de-interlaced on the monitor.

    So if you plan to put the view the stuff via a TV, your output is better being interlaced. If only via a projector, plasma, monitor e.t.c. deinterlace it.
     
  18. Choddo

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    right, that's what I thought, but from what JayX is saying, the appearance of an SVCD on the TV still doesn't look right unless it's deinterlaced first? That surprises me as the TV's interlaced display should mean it ends up looking ok, but maybe it's related to the fact that SVCD has fewer lines of vertical resolution than TV, DVD & DV

    I'll have to experiment and do some actual work myself :)
     
  19. JayX

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    interlace on a SVCD on tv is horrible.

    nothing more annoying imo, except maybe a bad IVTC (the amount of people dont do it properly, or "forget" (ie dont know) that SVCD does not support NTSCfilm (whereas VCD does).. altho if you have a player that can force it to PAL, not so annoying. bad luck for americans tho heh)
     

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