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Single V Biwired speaker cables – Identical measurement HFN.

Discussion in 'Cables & Switches' started by CJROSS, Sep 19, 2005.

  1. CJROSS

    CJROSS
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    Single V Biwired speaker cables – Identical measurement HFN.

    Very interesting results - Ive quickly scrambled through the article by Keith Howard but in essence measure response from 2 loudspeakers (B+W 1NTs & 805) is identical with single or biwired cables. Yet he still goes on to refure that there is a difference as he has heard one :

    "Personal experience convinces me that bi-wiring can and often does improve speaker sound quality, and there must be a measurable reason for this. But even 20 years on, that reason and the measurement which validates it both remain elusive."

    I like the irony of all the measurements showing that the speakers output was indetical in each case, that still good old "well Ive heard differences" was wheeled out. Anyway an interesting set of results to wheel out the next time a biwire debate kicks off. Even after testing those 2 speakers and finding identical sonic spectrums via measurement from single & biwired cable setups. Even then the scribe goes on to say he has heard differences over 20 years, so the results are of no consqequence as he has heard different (a bit like seeing a fairy at the bottom of a garden, then doing a scientific test to prove existence of said fairy ie recording equipment et al), he is burying his head in the sand and reverting to his beliefs of what he has heard in the last 20 years.

    Now the results are of no surprise to me personally but the fact is that the chap has taken the time to actually measure the output of both speakers with single/biwre in a scientific and controlled manner, these results show no difference between cable types, yet still they are dismissed due to 20 years of “experience” sighted cable experience I would add.

    Sort of makes you wonder why the experiment was carried out in the first place as no matter what the results, then said scribe would revert to “experience”. So thus I am glad I don’t subscribe to the mag anymore.
     
  2. chrisw

    chrisw
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    Things that are the same can be different.

    Ever noticed how grated cheese tastes nicer than a block of cheese, a sliced apple over a whole apple. Now I know that the knife / grater and added oxidisation would affect this, but on the whole, the cheese and apple are both basically the same as they were before they were cut up, yet they seem to taste different.

    Food for thought :)
     
  3. CJROSS

    CJROSS
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    Eh maybe the fact your taste buds are not being overwhelmed by a mouthful of apple/cheese rather than a small amount grated or sliced ? A different amount on your palate. I cant believe Im arguing about grated cheese tasting different to a solid block but there you go.

    So Chris do you reckon there are differences in single v biwired even though measure identically in frequency response from the same speaker ? Ie if they differ then frequency response must differ, yet does not.

    food for thought indeed.
     
  4. chrisw

    chrisw
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    Even if I eat the same amount grated as was in a lump, I still think they taste different.

    As for bi-wiring it, I know it sounds different, mainly because the other half noticed it the day I did it, and generally she doesn't notice or care if something has changed in my set-up. She actually commented on the fact that the "the words sound much clearer". I notice the difference also, mainly when playing music, especially things with a big bass line, it all has much more clarity. But that may just be me confirming that the money I spent on the bi-wire was worth it.

    I think that some speakers sound much better, whereas others it is barely noticeable. The first time I heard a set of bi-wired B&W's I was really impressed - was part of the reason why I bought a set of them in fact.
     
  5. CJROSS

    CJROSS
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    You are describing differences in frequency repsonse in each scenario then Chris, and funnily enough both speakers tested in the HFN article are B+Ws 1NTs & 805s. Yet they show no difference in measured frequency at all. This does not compute Im sure you will agree.
     
  6. Knightshade

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    Here's a good one for you.

    When I first started to throw money at this hobby I invested in some Monitor Audio speakers (can't remember the exact model but....) The dealer told me that they were bi wire speakers and I should bi wire them to get the best out of them. I didn't see how it could make a difference so I didn't bother.
    Anyway, after a few weeks the old 'I wonder....?' started to take affect.
    So I bought the cable the dealer recommended. (about £20 per metre :eek: - God I was a mug....) Same cable as I already had just the Bi Wire version. Took the cable home, connected it all up and sat down to have a listen. I was sold! More detail, more dynamics, instruments had more air around them. Brilliant!


    2 weeks later I noticed the brass bridging plates were still in place.......

    After that a friend helped me A-B test the single and bi wired cable with and without the bridging plates. Needless to say the Bi Wire cable went back.....
    If you want to perceive something is better.....You will.
     
  7. chrisw

    chrisw
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    I will change back to a single cable tonight and see if there is a noticeable difference. And it'll be interesting to see if SWMBO notices.
     
  8. Gregory

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    Grated cheese probably tastes different as there is more cheese exposed to the taste buds at a time than for a block. Calories, of course would be identical - i.e. not sure cheese taste is a good analogy.

    I have a good friend who swears that his system wasn't sounding as good at home as it did when he demoed it, and he then discovered that the cables were in back to front (i.e . amp end at the speaker and vica versa). I trust his judgement on many things, but on this I think he has been communing with the fairies. I suspect that the same is true for bi-wiring and bi-amping, though I must confess that when burying speaker cable in the wall in our lounge I put in bi-wired surface plates as I didn't want to discover it wasn't all hogwash and wish I'd done it at some point in the future.

    Cheers

    Greg
     
  9. pwood

    pwood
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    Different speaker/ amp / cable combinations respond differently to bi wiring. So its not really possible to make swapping statements as to which is better given the variables. I have found that a better quality single wire cable costing approx the same as a bi wire combo of similar construction/ make, more often than not is the way to go ( provided you use better quality jumper bars)
     
  10. Knightshade

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    Bi amping is a totally different ball game. That will sound different. Twice the power for a start.:)
     
  11. parkem50

    parkem50
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    What kind of cheese?
     

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