Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by Roland @ B4, Sep 18, 2001.
So Roland, if you can't afford £4k for a new projector, you might as well not bother?
...if you *have* to have a new one, IMO, yes.
I'm afraid that it isn't quite that simple, you can buy a great projector costing a LOT of money and it will look crap when used in the wrong circumstances. One has to take into consideration size of room, lighting conditions, type of ceiling, viewing distance, throw distance, size of screen, source material, resolution, with or without scaler, is DVD player progressive or interlaced. Are you going to use a HTPC? What annoys you most? noise, rainbows, screen door, scan lines, motion blur, poor contrast, poor brightness, size of projector? Do you want to floor or ceiling mount? Aspect ratio of the screen, 4:3, 16:9, 2.35:1? Try to get a good understanding of the various projector technologies such as CRT, LCD, DLP, DiLA, LCOS. Try to figure out which technology would suit your needs and budget the best.
cant even be bothered arguing
What kind of watch do you wear?
Surely though Roland is biased in that he has seen all sorts of top class projectors.....having never viewed a good crt, my sanyo is the biz for me!
If anyone ever shows me a good crt without permission i think i may have to throttle them....
ps. there is my addition to the original thread,<br />sanyo plv30 (with iscan/quadscan) together less than £3k
I'm with Roland on this one. I have only found one projector under £3k that I thought did a good job. That is the baby Sanyo. I would and do recommend this to people from what I have seen.
But if it was compared with even the more basic CRTs it would only get 3/4 out of 10, as opposed 7/8 for the basic CRTs on picture quality. Top Barco etc getting 9/10 out of 10. It is the reality of the situation. It isn't in the same class. Many people can't live these limitations, I expect Roland is one. I hope to collect my CRT tomorrow. I guess I am as well.
I'm with Jeff:
What I really want is a 3:1 wide screen with side blanking that comes in to create the bigger aspect ratio's. Prefferably wide, wide wide. My dilemma is that I love CRT. The two are, for the most part, mutually exclusive unless you want to go through tubes fast.....Compromise is required.
New I'm close to Roland but let me answer from a fixed panel view.....to even the score
£0 -£3000...... PLV30 with Iscan
£3-£5000....... Sony VPL10HT
£10,000 plus. An anamorphic lens and a calibrated D#ila probably with a Rock as it has 2.35:1 aspect ratio control for my ideal weirdo screen
Id go with Gordons recommendations up to £5k. After that point the following would be on my wish list:
£5000 to £10000: Seleco SVP420 + Glass Lens upgrade + Quadscan Elite Scaler
The 420 + Glass Lenses gives all the performance of the £9K SVD500 but for about £7000. Add the Quadscan Elite for around £1300.
£10000 upwards: Seleco SVD800 + Quadscan Elite Scaler.
Both projector choices are CRT. Still king of the hill in my opinion.
1. £0 to £3000
2. £3001 to £5000
3. £5000 to £10000
4. £10000 upwards
I don't get to see all the projectors as I am isolated so guys have a go at this one. Subjective or not. <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
When it comes down to it, buy the best YOU can afford. All very well snoby opinions of certain technology, but I could only afford "x" amount, which limited me to lcd. Sure others offer a better picture, but I have no problems with my setup considering how little it cost me. <br />There is always bigger and better, thats part of the fun. What matters is that we have fun buying the stuff and then fun using it.<br />Try it out, see what you think.
<br /> <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
I think that some people think that CRTs are just for "high end people".
Well, that's wrong IMO. I don't have that much money and was able to get a decent second hand for £1.5. That's less than I was going to spend on a new LCD/DLP which I was going to buy.
I genuinely felt I made the right decision, but that doesn't mean that people with LCDs shouldn't still enjoy themselves watching films which is what it's all about.
I am certainly not sorry about the projector I bought for the money and space I have.<br />For me its much more of an experience for the same price as a good widescreen t.v.<br />Some people prefer televisions to projectors, thats fine.<br />All according to funds and room and acceptance of family.<br />If I did it all again, I would buy the same stuff if I had the same money.<br />I have no doubt that crt or dlp is better than lcd. Maybe in the future I will upgrade. <br />But me and my wife have many hours of fun watching on the big screen. <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
My original reply too Spectre was intended to point out that if you haven't seen/heard/driven whatever anything better, then your normally fairly happy. I mean look at all those sad people out their that are happy with CD because they've never heard vinyl !
I looked at quite a few projectors before I bought mine and to be honest I would have been happy with a Sanyo PLV 30 till I looked at some others.
I'm happy with my purchase, but then I thought the 2 (old) CRT's I viewed were absolutley rubbish, washed out and grainy, after reading what every is saying on this board I'm willing to bet that both were either badly in need of a service or incorrectly setup.
Basically go with what suits you and looks best it doesn't matter with it's CRT, DLP, LCD or a 14" portable, we're all only here to get the best from films.
And no to a separate CRT thread.
CRTs I don't care how good they are. I, like a lot of people in the UK, live in a house that does not have a "spare room" for a cinema. Do I, not to mention the wife, really want a large CRT unit hanging from the ceiling 24hrs a day - No way. I have enough trouble hiding a 5.1EX system and the 6ft motorized sceen box in the main lounge. So money aside, CRT is not practical even in my "little" five bedroom detached place.<br />cliff
I guess this depends on how you interpret the question, and there is certainly a lot to be taken into account with CRT's.
The thing I struggle to get my head around is this "video snobbery". It doesn't seem to exist on the audio side. I use around £10k worth of amps and speakers but I know the thrill people get when they first connect their TV up to their hi-fi, or get their first surround system. <br />My main monitor is a Sony RPTV, I only use the LCD projector when I fancy the "big screen experience", and in my opinion it's plenty good enough for my needs.
Down with the CRT Fascists! <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">
[ 19-09-2001: Message edited by: Noel ]</p>
I should add that I'm not picking a fight with you, Spectre. You run a great forum, you're not afraid to get involved or add your opinion and you admit when you're wrong (unlike me!). I just disagree with you..... <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">
Three cheers for Spectre!
The responses to this post sound almost racial!
What amazes me is that CRT is still fighting back hard, when a year ago it was generally thought LCD/DLP (out-of the-box) technology was going to wipe the floor.
Noel, havent you left out Terrorists?
On the way back from the "event" I tried to convince myself that DLP was the way to go (poor Chris Frost had to listen to a couple of hours of me attempting to kid myself). After a day or two had elapsed I knew that I was kidding myself and that nothing touches CRT. CRT has everything against it (set-up, geometry, convergence, size, WAF, possible burn-in of tubes etc. etc.) except one thing; picture quality.
So, my answer to the original question of best projectors at each price point is;
Whatever Roland (B4) can supply for the money minus an amount for a decent external scaler.
E.g. although Roland says that the Barco Cine7 with LiMo Pro is good for £10k I bet a Vigatec or Rock scaler coupled with one of Roland's units would be a far better bet for your £10k.
The set-up Roland had at the London hi-fi show was (correct me if I am wrong Roland) a 9" retubed and recon unit for about £8k (plus VAT) connected via a Rock blown on to a 3 metre screen.
I know the total is well over £10k but you get the idea. Superb pictures.
Slingshot. No, it's not complete garbage. I'm dead sure that for some people, they'd rather argue for LCD than admit they've spent money unwisely. (Unwisely being when they could have gotten a better alternative but didn't do the research).<br />On the other hand, you of course have a point that some people are totally happy with their LCDs. And fair play to them. The most important thing is that people are happy with their setup.<br />But your're suggestion that we sit and watch 14" portables is, of course, garbage.<br />I think there is a common path.<br />I bet a lot of people (maybe most?) start off with a relatively small telly. Maybe sub 20". (I was happy with a 16" colour TV for 10 years). Then when they get a job and somewhere to put a larger telly, maybe they upgrade to a 25".<br />Then they get into home cinema and get a widescreen. 28" or 32".<br />Then if they decide they want something larger, they'll go for a RP, LCD or CRT. It's at this point that folks have to decide how much they want to commit. £4k + is a serious investment to the vast majority of people. I think this thread relates to people who have already decided to make a serious purchase.
Crt and the best picture doesn't have to cost a fortune.<br />Lcd has Pros, portability, ease of use, better Waf acceptance and erm..........<br />It has it's fans for those reasons, but for good picture quality then I personally cant live with the "lack of Blacks and contrast levels"
I have just had installed a used Barco Data 800 CRT with 16:9 90"x50" screen, both cost a grand total of £800! The picture is outstanding for the money, no tube burn and a crisp picture, all for less than the cheapest LCD. It can be done!(will improve even more when i finally get a Quadscan (I'll be looking for a bargain here as well))
I'm sorry if this doesnt settle well with LCD fans, BUT CRT RULES! <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">
I was personally thinking about getting a CRT but even in my mid 20's having a large 4 bedroom detached house I would'nt want a CRT hanging from the ceiling. Again its down to personal preference, which makes the world such a cool place <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> .
When I finally find a place which sells this MDF I will post some pictures from a newbie projector fan for the princely sum of £1300. The pictures should be good quality coming from a £1000 digital camera so perhaps some of the CRT guys could post their pictures too, of course a picture doesnt tell the whole story but it will be nice to see the CRT's point of view too <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> .
I used to visit the Digital Media World every year in London (3D animation) and at one of the shows they had a screen about the height of our house and it cost about 250,000 !.
Again I dont think arguing on a forum will get anyone anywhere, but I and others always enjoy sharing tips/experiences of our projectors whatever the technology. What matters most is that my Sony VPL-CX1 was my first step into the projector world and who knows what my next projector will be in a few years time <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> .
Yes - deliberately left out the terrorists....
We know everyone here has strong opinions, and we know people are smart enough to make their own decisions. But that's a boring answer, thus some of the comments by everyone above. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
Lets get back on track guys the orginal posted asked for views of projectors in each certain price brackets I gave MY views based on CRT. I hoped we were going to get quick fire choices from the digital camp.
Noel <br />The watch question still has me smilling. Yes its true it's analogue and a leather strap.
What's a holiday?
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