Simple Overclocking question

Miyazaki

Distinguished Member
Hi :hiya:

I have a athalon 2700+ and I can overclock it to a 2800+.

Is this as simple as it sounds, ie just select 2800+ in the bios or will I need a new fan?

Thanks for anyone's insight,

Cheers :)
 
it depends on 'how' you want to overclock and whether your cpu is unlocked.

taking your cpu as a tbred one:

the difference between a 2700+ and a 2800+ is the multiplier
both have a 333mhz fsb and different multipliers to achieve their clock speed. I beleive the 2700+ has a 13x multiplier - your motherboard and cpu may or may not accept any changes to this.
TBH your best best is to up the fsb from 166 ( which it should be at currently ) to say 180 or 190 and run something like prime95 and see if it runs stable. Up your fsb to as high as it will run with a stable system - then drop it down 5 or so mhz and leave it at that.
That should give you not only a faster cpu - but also your system ram and everthing on the bus will be running faster as well. that will give your system slightly more of a performance increase than simply a cpu multiplier oc - and does not require the cpu to unlocked.

changing multipliers upwards is not usually done by most overclockers ( even though this is what the manufacturers do to higher rated chips )
I up'd my cpu multiplier because i went as far as i could upping the fsb - but using a phasecooled set up ment i still had plenty of cooling power left to push the cpu beyond that. Unless you are intending spending £400+ on a cooling rig .... or modifying a fridge and airconditioning unit to cool your computer I would stick with the popular simple FSB increases ;)
 

Miyazaki

Distinguished Member
Thanks for the help.

So to do what you suggested I do or don't need a new fan? :confused:

On my bios i can choose to put the cpu at 2800+, i've never done anything remotely linked to overclocking before, so I don't really know what you were talking about.

All I want to know is if I can simply check the box that says 2800+ or not?

How would I find out if my cpu is a thoroughbred one or not?
 

Garrett

Moderator
I would not have thought you would need to have a new fan as you are only increasing the speed ever so slightly. I can increase the speed of mine a fair bit before it crashes and it is only a 1600 XP but have it set back at its proper speed, as the games I run are not that intensive on graphics or I run them at a lower resolution.

Do you have heat transfer paste between the CPU and the fan?
 

Hawklord

Well-known Member
I too have an xp2700+ in an Abit NF7-S Nforce 2 board(at stock 2.16 GHz). What could I overclock this to iyo. Will increasing the fsb mean you'll have to up the current going to the processor?
Is there an overclocking tool around that does all the hard work for you (finding highest fsb before instability). Something like ATI tool that I use to overclock my graphics card but for A CPU?

:)
 
Originally posted by Games Guru
Thanks for the help.

So to do what you suggested I do or don't need a new fan? :confused:

On my bios i can choose to put the cpu at 2800+, i've never done anything remotely linked to overclocking before, so I don't really know what you were talking about.

All I want to know is if I can simply check the box that says 2800+ or not?

How would I find out if my cpu is a thoroughbred one or not?

Download sisoft sandra ( direct download link below ) or some similar benchmarking and reporting tools - that should indentify your current cpu + aslo if you benchmark your current settings, you can then benchmark after any changes to evalutate any performance gain.

As for your fan / cooling - you will probably have a reasonable margin of heat dissapation to overclock - even if it is just a small increase.
I recommend overclocking the FSB ( front side bus ) as mentioned in previous post. This is the frequency the information bus that the cpu works on - along with the one it communicates to memmory and the rest of the system from.
It is this bus speed that determines the speed of your cpu along with a set multiplier - the cpu actually multiplies the fsb by a set amount to operate internally.

To change your FSB and increase your cpu and system speed (assuming you have a bios / motherboard that allows these setting / has the options to )
Enter bios when you boot your computer.
look for the bus speed setting ( it will most likely be set at 166mhz )
Increase this to 170mhz and then boot up and run a benchmark / sisandra - this will test to make sure your system is running smoothly and handling it.
If thats fine, reboot and enter bios and up the bus speed to 175mhz and repeat the tests.
Carry on increaseing in small abouts ( say 5mhz ) until your system becomes unstable.
If and when your system becomes unstable - enter bios and set the bus speed down by 5mhz and re test.
If thats still stable leave it set at that.

---------- your motherboard may have jumpers instead of bios settings, in that case get the mother board manual and reset the bus speed if you can ( when your computer is off ) and benchmark and test as above.

Click on this to download sisoft sandra
 
Originally posted by Hawklord
I too have an xp2700+ in an Abit NF7-S Nforce 2 board(at stock 2.16 GHz). What could I overclock this to iyo. Will increasing the fsb mean you'll have to up the current going to the processor?
Is there an overclocking tool around that does all the hard work for you (finding highest fsb before instability). Something like ATI tool that I use to overclock my graphics card but for A CPU?

:)

its not uncommon to get athlon xp thoroughbreds upto around 2.4ghz on air ..... but you are not guarenteed to achieve this.
Chips are not all equal - 2 identical processors may variy quite alot in the amount they will oc'
Although I have not got a great deal of info about bartons - they are supposed to over clock reasonable well in the same way.

Some aths and motherboards will allow you to modify multipliers as they are unlocked - but not all do - often this is a try and error testing to see if it works..... and cutting and soldering bridges physically on the cpu if it doesn't - not a job for the faint hearted.
Thats another reason to stick with fsb overclocks.
I had to cut one of my bridges to allow access to to higher multipliers .... but if you get it wrong you can totally distroy the cpu or lock it to a slower speed.

If you get the FSB upto 185Mhz with that cpu it should run as fast as a 3000+
 
******** important **********

If you are going to overclock - make sure you have checked with your motherboard manual on how to reverse changes should problems occur - or make sure you have access to the internet / friends that can help you out should you get stuck ( other than the machine you are attempting to overclock.
 

CAS FAN

Distinguished Member
I've had a little dabble with OCing in the past with little success. I have an xp2200+ which I normally have running at 133 fsb (1.8ghz). I've got it only to around 1.97ghz before i get crashes! If i go above that the machine won't boot and I have to clear the CMOS and start again.

I have an:-

MSI NT4Ultra mobo (MS-6590)
Athlon xp2200+ cpu
512 pc3200 mem
80gb hd (only recently installed and all OCing was tried before I git this drive)
40gb hd
GF4 Ti4400 G/Card

The CPU has a decent fan which can cool much higher CPU's

Anyone have any suggestions? Is this just a rubbish mobo etc for ocing?

Cheers
 

ted26

Active Member
After reading this thread i thought i would join in the fun :)

Went into bios and set fsb from 166 to 185

Ran sandra before and after ... alu 7846 now at 8605
fpu 3273 now at 3630

Before i push any further i would love to know if i am going in the right direction as this is my first time clocking :)
 

james.miller

Well-known Member
yep - you are. remember at all times to watch the tempreatures. Keep them under 55c at all times and you will be fine.

Which each clock increase test it with superPI or prime95 or something similar to make sure it is stable.


my xp1700+ defaults at 1.43ghz, but runs at 2.42hgz and higher if i want it to.

xp3509_1.jpg
 

Hawklord

Well-known Member
What a complete waste of time that was:mad:

I couldn't go any higher than a fsb of 175 before I couldn't load windows. When I seemed to get it stable within windows it wouldn't even get past the first screen on 3dmark2003 without crashing to the desk top.

I'll just have to keep everything at stock but it's a bit frustrating when you hear people getting their xp2700 upto around 2.8Ghz with normal air cooling:confused: (mine struggles to get near 2.2:zonked: )

maybe I'll have more joy trying to overclock my radeon 9700 pro (sapphire).
 
Originally posted by Hawklord

................when you hear people getting their xp2700 upto around 2.8Ghz with normal air cooling:confused: (mine struggles to get near 2.2:zonked: ).......


Anyone that says they had 2.8Ghz on air is talking rubbish
2.4 and if real lucky heading towards 2.5

2.8Ghz is out of reach of even most water cooled systems except water cooled peltier setups.
To get in the realms of 2.8ghz plus usually means having extremely good system parts, bridge cooling and over volting of the cpu, ram and motherboard - and phase cooling / heavy peltier.
For those that don't know about pelts and phase cooling:

Peltiers:
material that when an electric current is passed through it, the heat in the material travels from one side to the other - leaving one side cold and one side hot.
Basically if you put a water cooling block on the hot side ( or very heavy air cooling ) and the cold side on the cpu ceramic, you can potentially cool to 0 degrees C or lower.

Phase cooling:
Having a compressed then expanded liquid / gas system like on a fridge / freezer to cool the cpu. These babies can drop a running cpu down to -40 degrees C ... but in practice they keep an over clocked cpu at -10 to 10 degrees.

either way you are talking semi specialised and out of the league of the average user in terms of price and maintainance.
 

james.miller

Well-known Member
fraid not Ethics Gradient. The mobile bartons are absolutly flying - my friend has a 2500+ barton-M doing 2.7ghz right now on air.

Anybody that says they are talking rubbish clearly hasn't researched the subject;)
 
Originally posted by james.miller
fraid not Ethics Gradient. The mobile bartons are absolutly flying - my friend has a 2500+ barton-M doing 2.7ghz right now on air.

Anybody that says they are talking rubbish clearly hasn't researched the subject;)

I was under the impression Hawklord had an Xp2700+ TBred or Barton ...... as those asking on here about overclocking in very simple terms are usually not the ones knowing they can slot a 266 mobile barton @ 1.45v and stick it into a desktop.

I am well aware of what 'other' chips are being clocked at - I am a phase cooler myself - with plenty of bridge modded cpu's and mobo overvolting to my name ...... and a few expensive mistakes along the way.

But generally speaking the levels of the users on the thread with regards to expience and commitment to overclocking is low - and most have the stock usual chips - tbreds tbirds and straight bartons as far as I am aware. Also the choice of memmory and motherboards for the top level overclocks tend to specified from the off my oc'ers - the average users don't tend to consider that and end up with hardware that won't go into the up bus mhz ranges regardless of what cpu they are trying to OC

Theres research ..... and then theres assumptions and common sense ;)
 

Miyazaki

Distinguished Member
Thanks for all the help guys. Much appriciated.

I went ahead and simply checked the 2800+ box on my bios, but windows wouldn't load properly aftera couple of times. I changed it back to 2700+ and increased the FSB from 166mhz to 171mhz and i'm running that sandra programme right now.

Remember I haven't upgraded my fan or anything.

Does windows not load properly because the computer doesn't want to make the cpu work too hard and overheat or something?

What do you reckon will be the max for my cpu to go safely to? Like 179mhz or 182mhz?

Cheers :smashin:
 

CAS FAN

Distinguished Member
Not sure if you have a program similar but my MSI board comes with a Fuzzy Logic 4 program and this auto overclocks your chip by increasing the FSB until it crashes and then setting it just below that level. This way all you have to do is press an auto button and it does the rest for you.
 

Miyazaki

Distinguished Member
I saw some other stuff in my bios as well.

AGP aperture size for one. This is set at 128mb, which is what my video card is (Radeon 9700 non-pro)

It also says that video ram cacheable is disabled. Would I want this enabled?

Also my cpu core temperature is at 59 degrees celcius, when it is not overclocked. Is this high? What would I want it not to exceed?

Cheers
 
Originally posted by Games Guru
I saw some other stuff in my bios as well.

AGP aperture size for one. This is set at 128mb, which is what my video card is (Radeon 9700 non-pro)

It also says that video ram cacheable is disabled. Would I want this enabled?

Also my cpu core temperature is at 59 degrees celcius, when it is not overclocked. Is this high? What would I want it not to exceed?

Cheers

leave them set where they are ( agp and video chache )
If your cpu core temp is 59 without any load on it, then running a bit hotter than it should under a decent cooling solution ( depending what exact cpu type it is )
Make sure you fan and heatsink are seated properly and are running clean - check all system fans for dust and gunk.
If u can try reseating the heatsink and fan and adding some thermal heat transfer paste like for example arctic silver ( follow the instructions carefully and only use a very small amount )
 
When you are over clocking the cpu, several things have to be taken into account:

The cooling solution for your cpu - often to allow your cpu to run stable at higher clock rates it requires you to increase the voltage to the cpu. Increases in voltage mean increase heat produced. Add that to the increased heat produced in working your cpu harder with over clocking - you need to make sure your thermal solution is working effectively and efficiently

Memmory - when you increase the FSB, memmory needs to operate at increased speed to match the FSB speed. Make sure your ram is capable of operating at higher bus speeds - this may envolve increasing the voltage to it to allow it to operate stable at higher speeds - this also means it will get hotter than normal.
Another important thing with ram is the latency rates.
Alot of users buy ram as cheap as possible thinking that 512MB or ram will make there machine as quick as any other. This is not the case - if the ram latency is high then you could well be loosing up to 10% system performance per clock cycle. If you can afford it try to buy the lowest cas rated ram you can ... then in bios try to lower the settings even more and see if it will run stable.

Also the motherboard northbridge chip will get hotter with overclocking - you may have to added a small fan or other cooling solution to allow it to operate at higher frequencies.


............... its never just as simple as it looks ;)
 

CAS FAN

Distinguished Member
59 degrees celcius is indeed a tad high. Mine runs at 51 degrees when slightly overclocked from 1800mhz to 1900mhz (an increase of around 7/8htz on the fsb) and about 49 degrees when at normal speed. You could try better case cooling (mine used to run hotter until I got a new case with built in top fan) and a better CPU fan/heatsink.
 

james.miller

Well-known Member
Originally posted by Ethics Gradient
Anyone that says they had 2.8Ghz on air is talking rubbish
2.4 and if real lucky heading towards 2.5

you said anyone. If you were refering to people who specifically DONT have mobile boartons then im sorry - it wasn't obvious;)
 
Originally posted by james.miller
you said anyone. If you were refering to people who specifically DONT have mobile boartons then im sorry - it wasn't obvious;)

I was pretty sure he (hawklord) had a straight xp tbred - and it was to him and his chip I was refering if you notice the quote in the original post you quoted me from ;)

my very first comment:

"taking your cpu as a tbred one:
the difference between a 2700+ and a 2800+ is the multiplier"

..then Hawklord asks about his .. and I reply:

"its not uncommon to get athlon xp thoroughbreds upto around 2.4ghz on air ..... but you are not guarenteed to achieve this."

..... he tries his overclock then complains that he can't get it to 2.7Ghz

..... I quote him and reply:
"Anyone that says they had 2.8Ghz on air is talking rubbish
2.4 and if real lucky heading towards 2.5"

Maybe I should put disclaimers in for every other chip that he doesn't have ( my assumption is from and educated guess along with the fact that he has not corrected me when i quote him and discuss it )

I tend to carry on discussing the chips concerned rather than throwing in new ones that the user I am talking to doesn't have ;)
Next time I am having a converstation about someones Ford Mondeo's top speed - I'll remember to throw in a disclaimer about the speed of Ferrari's no matter how irelivent to the converstation .......... just to be PEDANTIC ;)

maybe next time you could introduce the barton mobiles as an option to replace the users current chip as an option if they are serious about overclocking. Again I make the assumption the people on the thread are interested only in overclocking thier current systems - with a minimum of fuss to get a little extra out of them rather than having to spend extra money on upgrades.
 

Hawklord

Well-known Member
I didn't mean to start an altication:blush:

I may have exagerated when I mentioned that I'd heard ppl overclocking their xp2700 to 2.8 ghz on air. I was just a bit peeved that my lack of know how or cpu spec was not giving me the results I wanted. I wasn't critsising any of the info you knowledgable people were offering just expressing my frustration at spending the best part of four hours fiddling under the hood for next to nothing or no benefits:(

I'll get around to upgrading my cpu, memory and g card when the next generation show themselves as for overclocking I'm gonna stick to stock speeds as I'm still able to play most games to the max and stability is the most important concern for me :D

thanks for your words of wisdom anyhow:smashin:
 

Miyazaki

Distinguished Member
After running prime95 and rebooting at unclocked level, in the bios it said my core cpu temp was 64 degrees :eek:

Surely this can't be normal?

I dusted around the back of it and put the hoover over the fan intake and took out some dust.

I simply can't understand why it is so high?

When I bought my pc I bought a fan capable of cooling an athalon 2800+, so I can't understand why the temp is so high.

Just out curiousity what would be the maximum temperature I could run my cpu at?

I looked online and the only links I found were out of date or unavailable due to maintainance.

I have a throughbred athalon 2700+ with an abit mobo.
 

The latest video from AVForums

Samsung Micro LED, Mini LED, NEO QLED TVs and More: AVForums Podcast Interview
Subscribe to our YouTube channel

Latest News

Klipsch Heritage Forte IV speakers now available in UK
  • By Andy Bassett
  • Published
Primare unveils NP5 Prisma MK2 network player for August
  • By Andy Bassett
  • Published
PROMOTED: How to watch UK TV from any country
  • By AVForums
  • Published
Samsung Micro LED, Mini LED and More: AVForums Podcast Interview
  • By Phil Hinton
  • Published

Full fat HDMI teeshirts

Support AVForums with Patreon

Top Bottom