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Sim2 HT200 and progressive scan

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by William Pulles, Mar 29, 2001.

  1. William Pulles

    William Pulles
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    I am considering purchasing the Sim2 HT200 DLP projector for my home theater and was wondering if anyone has had experience with comparing its performance with and without a progressive scan DVD player?

    Does the HT200 have a good enough built in de-interlacer to not benefit from prog scan DVD players? At the equivalent price of 6000 UK pounds, the HT200 should have some good built in features!

    Thanks

    William
     
  2. Ludae

    Ludae
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    You'd have thought so wouldn't you? But no. You can do better than the built in de-interlacer in the HT200, which is serviceable but not as good as one would expect all things considered.

    A progressive scan DVD player (such as the Denon 2800) that uses the Sil503 de-interlacer will give better results.

    But don't forget that at present there is not copy protection standard for 576 line progressive output so if you have a lot of PAL territory DVDs you may wish to consider a stand alone de-interlacer like the iScan Pro which also uses the Sil503 processor and will have the advantage of de-interlacing your other video sources as well.

    Also note that the HT200 will not reproduce the full vertical resolution of anamorphic widescreen DVDs but the HT250 will.
     
  3. tiberious

    tiberious
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    According to Macrovision themselves, they could protect on PAL progressive tommorow if the go ahead was given by the forum.The code is already written and ready - which makes it even more frustrating.

    As a HT200 user, I would say that the scaling is not bad - but can be improved considerably.Thing is, for the first few months, you will not really notice it - you will be far more interested in the "whole" than the "parts".Once the novelty has started to wear off, you may start looking more closely at the scaling performance - by then , the choice and cost of pro-scan should be a lot lower - hell maybe by then we may have pal progressive !! - are there no pressure groups to represent us here ?

    -should also add of course, that no 800x600 panel svga projector (which is most you will see)will allow full vertical resolution of anamorphic dvd, without use of an anamorphic lens (I think !).
     
  4. William Pulles

    William Pulles
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    Thanks for the responses. What is an anamorphic lens?

    Which PScan DVD Players other than the Denon 2800 and Camelot Roundtable use the Sil503 Processor? I have also read the review of different chips by Don Munsil and Brian Florian where they slated the Genesis chipsets that seem to be used by most of the DVD Players.
     
  5. tiberious

    tiberious
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    Anamorphic lens are used to enable projectors with 800x600 native panels to use the whole panel to form a 16:9 image, instead of an 800x450 segment of it (the largest 16:9 ratio you can fit into 800x600).

    It is achieved by outputting a 16:9 image as a 4x3 image (making it look tall and skinny), the lens then stretches the image back out to its correct aspect ratio. Result - 33% more vertical resolution and brightness (and some other nice side effects)

    Isco and cygnus("panamorph") both make these lens.
     
  6. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Well, if you do a search of the site for posts by me since Oct 2000 you'll find pertinent info I think.

    I posted about this unit after seeing it on a real cinema screen, complete with perforations....earlier/later last year. The info is still worthwhile. Remember that they have probably improved the internal de-interlacing since my dem.....

    Gordonnull
     
  7. William Pulles

    William Pulles
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    Hi Gordon

    I did in fact take your advice and I also went back a bit into the archives of the forum on this topic. I must also say that I appreciate the comments I have been getting from all on this topic as it is impossible to get properly informed opinions about these issues down here in South Africa. I am therefore totally reliant on you guys to help me out with these questions.

    Having followed some of the recent debates regarding the upcoming Arcam DV27 and the imminent release of DVD Pscan players for region 2 DVDs actually makes my dilemna even greater. I have also been reading some of the previous topics relating to external systems such as the the Rock, iScan Pro etc and basically have the following problem. Finally, I have also been reading the detailed articles by Stacey Spears, Don Munsil etc on DVD players in general and Pscan players specifically and it appears to me that many of the Pscan players (particularly those that use the Genesis chipsets) may have significant problems with certain DVDs.

    I have now purchased the Sim2 HT200 and therefore have a projector that has its own internal scaling capabilities (not necessarily the best but better than nothing). I have both region 1 and region 2 DVDs (South Africa is also region 2) and would ideally like to view both types in deinterlaced mode through my Sim2 HT200. I also continue to watch videos from my VCR as the selection of DVDs for hire is still a fraction of the videos that are available.

    My questions are the following:

    1. How important is the de-interlacing chipset used by a PScan DVD Player when selecting between different avaliable players?

    2. With the imminent release of a Pscan player for PAL type DVDs and being in a situation where I have both region 1 and region 2 DVDs is it worth waiting for a PScan player that applies PScan capabilities to both region 1 and 2 DVDs? (E.g. Will the Arcam DV27 be capable [officially or unofficially] of playing both region 1 and 2 DVDs in Pscan mode?)

    3. With all the options out there, is it not simply better to go for a relatively cheap normal DVD player with the external de-interlacer system such as the iScan as suggested by Ludae?

    4. What are the pitfalls to look for when considering an external de-interlacer. I have read earlier postings regarding possible lip-synch problems for example.

    5. What are the benefits of all the other de-interlacing output resolutions such as 960p, 1024p, etc etc (such as shown on spec sheet for The Rock for example) and do they have value for the Sim2 HT200 projector?

    I know that these are lots of questions but I'm becoming quite confused as to how I should move forward and as PScan DVD players are pretty expensive I am wanting to avoid making an expensive mistake? I would really appreciate some guidance here. :confused:
     
  8. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    1: I think we'll have to wait and see once we all start to get our hands on them. The quality of this chipset will obviously have an effect on de-interlacing performance but there are other issues with regard to DVD player performance. The "chroma" bug that is spoken about in the MPEG decoder chipsets is just one then there's the audio performance to consider as well.

    2: I guess you could wait and wait and wait. No one knows exactly when macrovision will be adopted for PAL playback. Until that time any units which will do Pal progressive will have to be modified or hacked ones. The Arcam DV27 has the necessary hardware on board to do Pal progressive but this capability is disabled in the firmware I believe. So, I'd guess it could be hacked and switched back on or, when they are allowed to, Arcam could re-enable it with a new software release. I'd guess other DVD player manufacturers using the Sil chipset could do the same.

    3. This option does have the benefit of working on all incoming sources and can be excellent in performance. Is it better? I'll wait and see for myself before commenting.

    4. Pitfalls are lip-sync as you say. Ease of use. How many inputs, how is it controlled, are there on screen menus. Do you want the external box to do the scaling and aspect ratio control and if so how is this controlled. Even before you get in to the picture quality it's a good idea to work out how you plan to integrate such a device in to a system.

    5. These output resolutions are for CRT based devices, Plasma's, LCD's, DLP's and D'Ila's. Just now you only need to consider two. 480P (de-interlaced NTSC)and the other being the native resolution of your projector 800 x 600 (svga). All scalers are likely to support both. Not all will support aspect ratio control of both, if any. Line Doublers and basic de-interlacers will support 480P and probably PalProgressive as well, they may allow aspect ratio control too.

    I hope this is of some use anyway.

    Gordon
     
  9. Chris Frost

    Chris Frost
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    William (and Gordon)
    Just an additional footnote.

    If you use a de-interlacer such as the iScan Pro then you can make use of the HT200's internal scaler to control the aspect ratios.

    The HT200 is one of the few single lens projectors to allow full aspect ratio control with inputs via the 15pin D connector and its component progressive scan input.

    Regards
     

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