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Sim2 300

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by mart.stokes, Nov 19, 2001.

  1. mart.stokes

    mart.stokes
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    Saw the SIM2 300 DLP projector over the wekend at the Manchester hi-fi show (apart from SIM2 being there it WAS a hi-fi show) and I have to say I am impressed. It was one of the first projectors I have seen that has caused me to have no interest in the specification, just the picture. Is it as good as a Barco Cinemax and a S&W interpolator gold? Don't be so bloody stupid! But I reckon you get over 50% of the visual performance for less than a sixth of the price. I was pleased to hear that SIM2 also offer a "no dead pixels" guarantee (easier on DLP I suspect).

    How will it stack up against the new Sony 11? I have no idea but given the price difference (the SIM2 may cost up to £9k) the Sony may have the advantage.

    The SIM2 as an alternative to CRT? Closest I have seen yet.

    Specs I can remember; 1280 by 720, 1100:1 contrast (could be optimistic), 95% brightness across screen, 6 segment colour wheel. Deinterlacer by Faroudja (sorry if spelling is wrong).
     
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    Bit unfair comparing to the Sony 11HT, it's in a different price bracket.

    Better to compare with the Sharp Z9000E that will be about the same price as the HT300 - uses same DLP unit. Now that would be a comparison.
     
  3. ReTrO

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    It sounds good to me. My boss is looking at one for his HC so is he gets one I will be able to give you a short write up, but that won't be until new year, when they are avilable in numbers.
     
  4. Roland @ B4

    Roland @ B4
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  5. mart.stokes

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    Roland, yes the Cinemax vs. HT300 comment was VERY tongue in cheek. It's just that somebody was bound to ask so I wanted to point out the futility of such a comparison.

    No dead pixel guarantee is 12 months, normal guarantee two years.

    Roland, I am still a big fan of CRT and I will ALWAYS tell people that a second hand projector off your good self combined with a Rock+ or Vigatec will still blow anything else into the weeds for the price. I came away from the event disappointed because my worst fears had come true, panel projectors cannot compete. I just believe the HT300 has moved fixed panel up a gear and I am still holding off. It's not even a WAF thing, I want the convenience of fixed panel with the performance of CRT.

    The sad thing is that OWL/SIM2 were comparing the HT300 to their top of the range CRT BUT USING DIFFERENT DISKS (not as clever as the event!) and different source machines.

    The Manchester hi-fi show was last month!!!!! Oh, my goodness!!!
    In fact there are two, the one last month (which I couldn't attend because I was being stopped by traffic cops in South Africa for various minor offences) was the Practical hi-fi one (which is always excellent). This month's was at the Hilton Hotel Manchester Airport and, apart from OWL/SIM2, it was very much an audiophile event (and had few exhibitors).

    RRabi is correct, it is an unfair comparison with the Sony, but it is one people will make because DLP is still an expensive technology, LCD has reduced in price (in relative terms) so people may think that (technology prices apart) these two machines are in the same ball park. If the Sony is better, more power to it!
     
  6. mart.stokes

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    Roland makes a very important point about the picture versus specification. I believe many of us (myself included) have not yet "matured" past the point of specification. These forums are littered with references to such things yet audiophiles (Gord bless 'em) have "matured" past specifications on equipment and are only interested in how good something sounds to them (forget the fact that a certain speaker may drop off past 16kHz, if it sounds great it will sell!).

    The HT300 is the first bit of equipment I have seen that made me NOT want to read the spec sheet.
     
  7. Jeff

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    Just to add a couple of my thoughts being a DLP projector owner by choice. If you haven't seen a good fixed panel projector connected to a good HTPC then you haven't seen one. The event was probably rather CRT biased with all the best scalers connected to CRTs. If we have a second event, Kryton might have to side with the digital projectors which should help to even things up a little. :)

    Jeff
     
  8. mart.stokes

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    Jeff, that is the sort of comment I love to hear :D
     
  9. ReTrO

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    Roland: What did you think of the small Barco show at Pinewood today? Shame they didn't have their DLP working. They could also do with a new sound processor, that Rotel is old!
     
  10. Roland @ B4

    Roland @ B4
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    Sorry mate just Clicked and I didn't say high. (How Wrood)
    Bit of a funny day for me first show as a Barco Customer.

    Barco are late coming into this DLP lark for Home cinema. It has never been their policy to bring out a "me too" product and I think there is some serious tweeking going on over in Belgium. Last I heard it will not be ready untill 1st Qtr 2002. We'll be talking about the Sim2 400 before then. (just a guess for next product name)

    Screen surface let the CineMax down a bit. but other wise not a bad set up certainly not the punch I would have expected. SDI into the S&W interpolator whould have done it more justice

    Plasma looks interesting but was struglingy with 60hz material but still only a prototype hard to judge. I only saw it with cartoon.

    Projection specialist sound systems are always crap and quite right too.
     
  11. mart.stokes

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    Roland, the sound system comment is an interesting one. When I was auditioning my Denon amp I didn't really want to look at the picture, closing your eyes (with a DVD you know well anyway) is a good way of judging the sound. So, it follows that it is perhaps a good idea not to have a good sound system when watching a picture. You are influenced in lots of ways.

    Take my wife (the old jokes are always the best, "PLEASE TAKE MY WIFE"), I have noticed that she associates picture size with loudness. If she is watching a demo of a projecor she is quite happy for the sound to be up LOUD, it seems to fit! But when we are watching our 50" Pioneer she won't tolerate the sound to be as loud. When we had our 29" Sony (honest, it was the dog's in those days of the early 90s!) she wouldn't accept anything louder than a gnat f*rting! Very strange! Big picture = big sound, little picture = little sound.
     
  12. Phil Hinton

    Phil Hinton
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    That is an interesting point indeed,

    When i had my set up in the livingroom, with my 32" w/s, my girlfriend would always complain that the sound was too loud if over a quarter way round on the amp.

    Now in the cinema room with a 7.5ft image and the amp volume at halfway, she didnt complain at all, very strange.But in a good way.:p
     
  13. Roland @ B4

    Roland @ B4
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    That's a kind way of putting it.

    My arguament goes that videophiles wouldn't recognise good sound if it fell on them.

    I said before "Get an audio person to set up a projector and it will sound lovley"

    2 ears 8 speakers

    2 eyes 1 projector
     
  14. Phil Hinton

    Phil Hinton
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    size matters:kisses: :D :D
     
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    Feel like i`m in the Barco club!!
    Contrary to whats oft touted in here,the best dlps are getting closer to crt-plus they have the convenience and portability factor.
    You dont have to continually fiddle with them,and you dont need to bring in someone every 6 months..to get the best out of it..
    I am a crt owner(..and have been for some years)-but iv`e also just bought a little Hitachi lcd which is cracking.
    The analagie between the mondeo not becoming a formula one-will soon be redundant.
    The crt is the slow moving truck,the dlp is the sleek roadster..
    The future(..and I dont have one)-is dlp..crt is yesterdays technology.
    Its like the best record decks-I still havnt heard many sounds from cd that come close.(but look whats happened to records!)
    People want ease of use and convenience and high quality rather than bloody awkward and high quality.
    I do.Though iv`e always advocated the superiority of crt,i`m not naieve enough to admit its doomed.
    I give it 5 years-tops.
    Doug
     
  16. Roland @ B4

    Roland @ B4
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    Agreed

    If you are having to fiddle that often sounds like something is wrong.

    The future DLP...... we will see. It won't be CRT we all know. DLP is the product today but it ain't ever going to beat CRT. Companes like Sony don't just miss a market like this. There are some better technologies waiting in the wings, just cost a lot at the moment.

    I'm willing to bet that in 5 years time it will not be CRT,LCD or DLP that we will be watching.
     
  17. Phil Hinton

    Phil Hinton
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    JUst out of interest douglas Q what CRT do you have?
     
  18. Jeff

    Jeff
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    I'm not sure about fives years, but by 2004 25% of the projector market will be LCoS.

    Jeff
     
  19. Chris Frost

    Chris Frost
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    If "people" means Joe Public, then there is plenty of evidence to suggest that quality is a secondary consideration. We've could have had HiDef TV instead of Sky, VHS won over Betamax, the nations favourite read over breakfast is the Sun. The list goes on...

    Being Home Cinema enthusiasts, we sometime lose sight of the fact that simply a big bright colourful picture from a small projector impresses Joe Public. They rarely stop to question the quality unless it is really awful. The finer points of black level, colour accuracy, de-interlacing etc just cause their eyes to glaze over.

    I don't think it matters to the general public what technology is inside, as long as the picture is big and bright from a small box that needs no maintenance.

    The future? Well, most living rooms have the seats facing one corner. So, what does that tell you..?

    But, of course, we enthusiasts take a different view.:)
     
  20. Paul D

    Paul D
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    When i first started looking for a projector. I popped over to the American AVS website. The main topic?, what was best CRT or LCD/DLP!.
    There are two completely different camps. Both loathing the other.

    After the "Event", i had a better idea what "I" wanted from my picture.

    I have three choices of what type of projector gives the best image!.

    LCD for colours. Very saturated and vibrant, zero flicker.

    DLP for good detail, and all round quality.

    CRT for texture/blacks/depth, and relaxing image.


    I have three choices of what the drawbacks are!.

    LCD has poor black level, screendoor or vertical banding.

    DLP with rainbow is a killer unless double speed, plus slightly washed out colour/black level.

    CRT are big, need more maintenance/fitting. Are expensive when new. Will be phased out.

    Notice i didn't mention D-ila/Lcos? WHY?

    Well this type of projector is just in its infancy.
    JVC has just lifted it restrictions on other manufacturers making a PJ based on this technology.
    This may mean lower cost PJs, with longer life "cheaper" bulbs.
    Black level will certainly improve. Screendoor is not an issue. Colours are very accurate.
    I expect to see the first generation of these early next year.

    I now have a "CRT" projector. And i make no excuse for saying, it's the first time since i started using projectors that i am satisfied with the image. In fact i've now started to think about my audio setup!.

    What will i buy when upgrade time comes?.
    God knows!.

    If given the choice, i would prefer a "fixed" panel projector. As the above posts indicate. Conveniance/size/cost are as important as performance. But i would need for the next PJ to be a improvement, not a backstep just for the sake of it etc.
     
  21. mart.stokes

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    Yes, that's why women go for loud sales executive type men. They think they may have a HUGE.....................




    ...................HOME CINEMA!!!!!
     
  22. mart.stokes

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    OH MY GOODNESS, are you saying the Sun ISN'T a quality publication????????????????:eek:

    Next you will be saying Father Xmas doesn't exist!
     
  23. Guest

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    I dont dispute that the best pictures in the domestic market currently emanate from crt-I dont think anyone does.
    But I think now with crt the disadvantages-which are many-outweigh the advantages-which are few.
    I think the technology of now-the better dlp`s and the better dila`s -almost have the beating of crt;/
    ..and Roland your right,there are other things round the corner which will be better still.
    But the point is this,I dont want to wind up like those old lp12 fans who still lament the pasing of record-when everyone else has cd.
    crt is dying,it needs professional-expensive installation to get the best out of it-it does need at least yearly tweaking-in some respect(especially in my house,with my crt in a custom cabinet that keeps getting knocked by the kids!)-its bloody massive,not portable,needs blackout conditions to work at its best,bloody convergence-what a pain in the arse...
    ..and Roland,if you are subliminally suggesting that my crt is not set up to optimum-your wrong.
    Iv`e had crt`s for 15 years,I think that makes me a fan.
    But,I applaud the day when people can get the level of quality that is almost impossible to attain now without much commitment-off the shelf.
    This-if we are honest-is what we all want.
    ..as i said,I give crt another 5 years-not a message one might want to accept if one makes their living from installation/refurbishment of crt`s-granted..but none theless-true i`m afraid.
    Doug
     
  24. Guest

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    708..
     
  25. Roland @ B4

    Roland @ B4
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    My petrol lawnmower is much better than these newfangled electric things too! :-{)

    The writing is on the wall CRT will have to go, but only when the the other technologies can produce a better picture. They have long way to go yet.
     

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