Signal strength on HD box

I 'think' I have the capacitor problem, so I've contacted Watchdog about that too.

I don't think Watchdog will be round to fix it any time soon. The programme won't be back until the autumn.

Why not simply cut your losses and your blood pressure and fit the capacitor kit? Sky have a massive legal department and they win every time. You are living in cloud cuckoo land if you think Sky will cave in over a "little" matter like warranty. They'll just carry on churning out their "refurbished" replacements. :rolleyes:

See http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=758785
 
I have a similar problem.

Picture (via component) from one tuner is fab - SD almost at HD quality. Picture from the other tuner is as bad a VHS at times!

It was very apparant this weekend, watching a recording of Dr Who (SD), which looked amazing. Then a recording of I'd do Anything (SD) which was one str8 after and must have been from the other tuner due to padding which was awful.

As I only had it installed 2 weeks ago, should I be calling SKY?

I don't think this is the same thing. The broadcast quality of BBC output varies dramatically, and Dr Who this weekend was pretty good SD, whereas the I'd Do Anything I think always looks terrible in SD (which irritatingly we're forced to endure for the results show, the main programme being in HD).

So I don't think how these two programmes looked is a good test of your hardware setup. You need to check your signal strengths on the two tuners and see if you have any real discrepancy.
 
I don't think Watchdog will be round to fix it any time soon. The programme won't be back until the autumn.

Why not simply cut your losses and your blood pressure and fit the capacitor kit? Sky have a massive legal department and they win every time. You are living in cloud cuckoo land if you think Sky will cave in over a "little" matter like warranty. They'll just carry on churning out their "refurbished" replacements. :rolleyes:

See http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=758785

But isn't a refurbished exchange from Sky with a warranty better than spending money on a capcitor kit with no guarantee of success? Particularly for those people with an aversion for 'tampering' with the insides of electronic apparatus? The Sale of Goods Act applies to ALL companies, big or small. Nobody is above the law as you seem to suggest. It is also wrong to suggest that Sky have no obligation to repair or replace faulty boxes IMHO. If there is a problem with these boxes, then Sky need to put it right and at their expense.

You only ever seem to post in this forum in the context of the 'PSU' problem and the way to deal with it i.e buying a PSU or a capacitor kit from Satcure. I'm afraid I have to wonder whether you have a financial arrangement with Satcure?

ATB

Max
 
I don't think this is the same thing. The broadcast quality of BBC output varies dramatically, and Dr Who this weekend was pretty good SD, whereas the I'd Do Anything I think always looks terrible in SD (which irritatingly we're forced to endure for the results show, the main programme being in HD).

So I don't think how these two programmes looked is a good test of your hardware setup. You need to check your signal strengths on the two tuners and see if you have any real discrepancy.

Ah right.

A mate suggested recording 2 programmes from the same transponder (or something) to see if the same signal strength and quality. So I did ITV1 and ITV3.

Started off same, but within a few seconds the signal quality started going up and down on tuner 2. Whereas the strength and quality on tuner 1 remained the same - 100% quality and 75% strength.

Had an email from SKY telling me to switch off at the wall, then on again and wait 3 minutes. Have done that but now all my recordings have gone!
 
I think your box has serious problems. Anyone else lost all their recordings simply from powering down?
 
But isn't a refurbished exchange from Sky with a warranty better than spending money on a capcitor kit with no guarantee of success?

Not when the so-called "refurbished" exchange still has a crappy power supply. And the "warranty" is 90 days. You don't seem to get the point that even if you were to win a legal battle with Sky, their only obligation is to supply you with a replacement which is likely to give you exactly the same problems within months or even weeks. At least one poster in this forum is on his fourth HD box! There's no "guarantee of success" there!

You only ever seem to post in this forum in the context of the 'PSU' problem and the way to deal with it i.e buying a PSU or a capacitor kit from Satcure. I'm afraid I have to wonder whether you have a financial arrangement with Satcure?
Yeah, right, click on my affiliate link and make me some commission! (Oh. I don't have an affiliate link.) :(

Buy the parts wherever you like. Several people here have advocated Maplin.

The reason I harp on about the PSU is that it seems crystal clear that ALL the Thomson boxes use capacitors which will fail so there is absolutely no point in messing with a Digibox until you've replaced them with something better. I see post after post complaining about various symptoms which are almost certainly (90%) due to the crappy power supply. But "helpful" people say "try pressing this magic button sequence" or "change the LNB" etc. while ignoring the (to me) obvious.

better than spending money on a capcitor kit with no guarantee of success?

Here's a question: how many people here have fixed the power supply but found that it did NOT cure 90% of the symptoms?

Back in the days when I had a TV repair shop, I repaired quite a few Pace and Amstrad analogue boxes. I'd always replace the PSU capacitors before even trying to diagnose the fault cause. There was simply no point in wasting time trying to locate a mysterious fault when experience told me that a low voltage or electrically "noisy" power supply could produce an enormous number of different symptoms. I'd get customers complaining that I'd charged them for a power supply repair when they'd brought the box in with a "faulty tuner"!

Nothing has changed in twenty years. Manufacturers still use crappy capacitors and users still can't understand why a power supply can cause a "tuner fault" or whatever.
:rolleyes:
 
Not when the so-called "refurbished" exchange still has a crappy power supply. And the "warranty" is 90 days. You don't seem to get the point that even if you were to win a legal battle with Sky, their only obligation is to supply you with a replacement which is likely to give you exactly the same problems within months or even weeks. At least one poster in this forum is on his fourth HD box! There's no "guarantee of success" there!


Yeah, right, click on my affiliate link and make me some commission! (Oh. I don't have an affiliate link.) :(

Buy the parts wherever you like. Several people here have advocated Maplin.

The reason I harp on about the PSU is that it seems crystal clear that ALL the Thomson boxes use capacitors which will fail so there is absolutely no point in messing with a Digibox until you've replaced them with something better. I see post after post complaining about various symptoms which are almost certainly (90%) due to the crappy power supply. But "helpful" people say "try pressing this magic button sequence" or "change the LNB" etc. while ignoring the (to me) obvious.



Here's a question: how many people here have fixed the power supply but found that it did NOT cure 90% of the symptoms?

Back in the days when I had a TV repair shop, I repaired quite a few Pace and Amstrad analogue boxes. I'd always replace the PSU capacitors before even trying to diagnose the fault cause. There was simply no point in wasting time trying to locate a mysterious fault when experience told me that a low voltage or electrically "noisy" power supply could produce an enormous number of different symptoms. I'd get customers complaining that I'd charged them for a power supply repair when they'd brought the box in with a "faulty tuner"!

Nothing has changed in twenty years. Manufacturers still use crappy capacitors and users still can't understand why a power supply can cause a "tuner fault" or whatever.
:rolleyes:

I still think that it's wrong to let Sky get away with it, by effecting repairs yourself. No one in their right mind would do that with any other product, why do it with something that not only have you bought, but you're paying an on going subscription for the service that makes it work! Bonkers IMHO.

The Sale of Goods Act applies to all companies large or small and Sky are not excluded. To pay for replacement parts that Sky should be footing the bill for is bordering on stupidity IMHO. If my box fails, Sky will be footing the bill I can assure you. It's the law!

I don't dispute that there are problems with PSU's and probably other components too. But this Forum is polarised towards people posting with faults, it's the reason that many people arrive here. There are approaching half a million boxes in service and if they were all failing then it would be in the national press and on the news! ITV & BBC would be making all the capital out of it they could! All previous polls here on the subject have indicated that there are failures, but not the catastrophic amounts that you are promulgating. If a box needs a new PSU, there's only one company that should be dealing with it right now ... Sky ... and at their expense!

My apologies if you're not connected to Satcure, but every post you make seems to be linked to promoting their business, even linking to a review on the Sky HD box which just happened to be on their site too! If you took part in the day to day postings on this site, rather than just to the threads that might indicate that someone ought to have a replacement PSU from Satcure, I might not be quite so cynical.

ATB

Max
 
As an ex- TV repairer I guess I'm attracted towards the technical questions. I don't actually watch much TV, I'm not interested in Hi-Fi or DVD, and I simply pop in here to help out with technical problems. Satcure appears to be the only site with really useful technical information so forgive me if I can't find others as good. However, I can recommend
https://www.satalogue.com/tech/ and
http://www.satelliteforcaravans.co.uk/ and
http://www.stevelarkins.freeuk.com/ and
http://www.morlocks.co.uk/sky.htm and
http://www.analoguesat.co.uk/ and
http://www.satellitesuperstore.co.uk/advice.htm
but none of them has information that specifically deals with Sky-HD or faults.

This site http://www.aerialsandtv.com/atvstockaerialtests.html
has excellent information about aerials but that's not relevant here either.

So forgive me for being unable to find a better source of information. I'm just doing my best to help.

I do agree that Sky OUGHT to sort out the problem for everyone but I can't imagine it happening. They will continue to grind you down with "refurbished" digiboxes till you get fed up. So, given a choice between nipping down to Maplin and buying a few capacitors, or putting up with an endless procession of lost recordings and faulty Digiboxes from Sky, you can guess which option I'd choose! :)
 
As an ex- TV repairer .... you can guess which option I'd choose! :)

Yes I think I can! :D

But maybe not so for many others with faulty boxes. As Bachstrad implies, most people would not expect to have to get out a soldering iron to compensate for Sky's failure to meet their SOGA responsibilities, and many just wouldn't have the technical skills to do it anyway.
 
Some people bang on about how good their Sky HD box is, good luck to them.

Sam Radford offers good advice to those who have a failing or faulty box. He's exactly the type of person that is useful and appreciated on a forum such as this. If he chooses to restrict his postings to one general subject, it's no-ones business but his.

Thanks Sam!
 
As an ex- TV repairer I guess I'm attracted towards the technical questions. I don't actually watch much TV, I'm not interested in Hi-Fi or DVD, and I simply pop in here to help out with technical problems. Satcure appears to be the only site with really useful technical information so forgive me if I can't find others as good. However, I can recommend
https://www.satalogue.com/tech/ and
http://www.satelliteforcaravans.co.uk/ and
http://www.stevelarkins.freeuk.com/ and
http://www.morlocks.co.uk/sky.htm and
http://www.analoguesat.co.uk/ and
http://www.satellitesuperstore.co.uk/advice.htm
but none of them has information that specifically deals with Sky-HD or faults.

This site http://www.aerialsandtv.com/atvstockaerialtests.html
has excellent information about aerials but that's not relevant here either.

So forgive me for being unable to find a better source of information. I'm just doing my best to help.

I do agree that Sky OUGHT to sort out the problem for everyone but I can't imagine it happening. They will continue to grind you down with "refurbished" digiboxes till you get fed up. So, given a choice between nipping down to Maplin and buying a few capacitors, or putting up with an endless procession of lost recordings and faulty Digiboxes from Sky, you can guess which option I'd choose! :)

AFAIC, there's no OUGHT about it! It's a legal responsibility!

If you buy a new car and the engine management system failed during the warranty period, would you source a new PCB and fit it yourself at your own expense? I certainly wouldn't and I strongly suspect you wouldn't either! That's probably an extreme example, but does highlight what you're advocating. A better example would be a TV set, a DVD player, or AV Amplifier, people wouldn't dream of repairing faulty equipment at their own expense whilst the manufacturers have a legal responsibility to repair it for them. In the case of a Sky STB, it's even worse, because purchasers are paying an ongoing monthly subscription to receive a service that the equipment is used for.

If people wish to repair their own boxes themselves at their own expense, that's their choice. As I mentioned before, in my case I pay Sky £65 a month for my service and there's no way I'm going to repair goods at my expense that have failed whilst still under the protection of the Sale of Goods Act.

To allow Sky to fail to meet their obligations by promulgating the idea that Sky are above the law and the only successful way to rectify these problems is by paying for them yourself is IMHO quite wrong. This is my main concern about the advice you offer.

ATB

Max
 
Some people bang on about how good their Sky HD box is, good luck to them.

Sam Radford offers good advice to those who have a failing or faulty box. He's exactly the type of person that is useful and appreciated on a forum such as this. If he chooses to restrict his postings to one general subject, it's no-ones business but his.

Thanks Sam!

I think you are missing the point which I'm trying to make, it has nothing to do with "banging on about how good the Sky HD box is" :nono:

It's to do with the promulgation of the advice that Sky are above the law and that people should be making repairs at their own expense, when quite clearly those repairs should be the responsibility of Sky and made at the expense of Sky themselves.

ATB

Max
 
I think you are missing the point which I'm trying to make, it has nothing to do with "banging on about how good the Sky HD box is" :nono:

It's to do with the promulgation of the advice that Sky are above the law and that people should be making repairs at their own expense, when quite clearly those repairs should be the responsibility of Sky and made at the expense of Sky themselves.

ATB

Max

Au contraire. With respect, I think you may be missing the point that Sam Radford is making (and I agree with him) which is that Sky actually concedes they have obligations to customers after the original maufacturers warranty period (by waiving the £65 call out fee for so many, that is what they are, in fact, doing) However, Sky fulfills those obligations by supplying a replacement box, at their own expense.

Of course it's very likely that any replacement box (new or refurbed) will contain the same psu (and dodgy capacitors) as the originals and therein lies the problem and the point.

My own Sky HD box (original and supplied when they first became available) only recently started to exhibit some minor faults consistant with a failing PSU. Rather than wait for it to fail and then chase Sky for an engineer to visit, take time off work for that visit and then get a replacement box that might fail again, I made the choice to buy an exchange psu and fit it myself (no soldering required). Now I have a STB with a psu that should last at least 3 years (guaranteed for that period by the supplier of the exchange unit).

I do take your point that the Sale of Goods Act is in place to cover consumers when they are supplied with inherently faulty goods but it's very likely that using that avenue would eventuate in Sky supplying a replacement box and round and round we go.

I'm grateful to forum members who can offer advice about technical matters and solutions to problems and I was perturbed by your suggestion that Sam Radford was some sort of plant by a commercial enterprise. A little bit of research shows him to be a member with over 3000 posts which are by no means all concerned with Sky HD psu's.
 
Au contraire. With respect, I think you may be missing the point that Sam Radford is making (and I agree with him) which is that Sky actually concedes they have obligations to customers after the original maufacturers warranty period (by waiving the £65 call out fee for so many, that is what they are, in fact, doing) However, Sky fulfills those obligations by supplying a replacement box, at their own expense.

Of course it's very likely that any replacement box (new or refurbed) will contain the same psu (and dodgy capacitors) as the originals and therein lies the problem and the point.

My own Sky HD box (original and supplied when they first became available) only recently started to exhibit some minor faults consistant with a failing PSU. Rather than wait for it to fail and then chase Sky for an engineer to visit, take time off work for that visit and then get a replacement box that might fail again, I made the choice to buy an exchange psu and fit it myself (no soldering required). Now I have a STB with a psu that should last at least 3 years (guaranteed for that period by the supplier of the exchange unit).

I do take your point that the Sale of Goods Act is in place to cover consumers when they are supplied with inherently faulty goods but it's very likely that using that avenue would eventuate in Sky supplying a replacement box and round and round we go.

I'm grateful to forum members who can offer advice about technical matters and solutions to problems and I was perturbed by your suggestion that Sam Radford was some sort of plant by a commercial enterprise. A little bit of research shows him to be a member with over 3000 posts which are by no means all concerned with Sky HD psu's.

If you wish to do Sky's repairs for them at your expense, that's fine by me. I don't think it's right. They are not above the law.

Sam only posts in this forum in connection with PSU's and other threads relating to 'The 15 month blocking issue', everytime linking to Satcure. It's easy to see why I drew the conclusion that I did. I already apologised to Sam for drawing that conclusion (Post 32 if you missed it), if he wasn't connected to Satcure, but also outlined my reasons for why I thought that might be the case.

I welcome help and advice in the Forum. I don't think that advising people to 'roll over' because Sky have good lawyers and that they are above the law, (in this case The Sale of Goods Act), could be considered as good advice in any way, shape or form!

ATB

Max
 
"I don't think that advising people to 'roll over' because Sky have good lawyers and that they are above the law, (in this case The Sale of Goods Act), could be considered as good advice in any way, shape or form!"

I wholeheartedly agree!
 
I confess that I'll do anything for a quiet life. I don't like conflict and I don't believe in so-called "warranties". On several occasions I've tried to claim on a "warranty" and each time it's ended up costing me more (time off work, mental strain etc.) than simply fixing the fault myself. OK, I'm maybe a little unusual in being able to fix most things but sometimes it's worthwhile paying someone else to fix something - not necessarily in the short term but in the long term.

A good example of that was a dishwasher which shall remain nameless. It went wrong twice under warranty and each time I had to take a day off work so that an "engineer" could turn up at 5.05pm, replace something underneath, then wander off muttering to himself. On the third occasion, I paid a local guy to fix it. He pointed out that the solenoid valve (?) was rated at 220 volts and had burnt out. He replaced it with a 240 volt model and the dishwasher has been fine for the last 5 years! OK, it cost me 50 quid but the alternative would have been to get yet another "warranty" callout for a mumbling "engineer" to fit an underrated part again and lose another day's work - probably every year. And, out of warranty, would that company have charged me to fit the same underrated part? You bet they would!

Anyway, sorry, I'm wandering way off topic but I just wanted to make the point that warranties aren't worth the paper they are printed on, in my experience. Hence my "don't bother to sue" attitude.
 
I do not have and never have had any warranties - i do not believe in paying for warranties - sale of goods act covers it all - so when my sky hd box started playing up i complained to sky, i got a derisive answer from a sky person on the other end of a very expensive phone call. As i do not have to put up with this i contacted Mr James Murdoch - result? New sky box.... moral of the story - when you complain go to the top.
 
I do not have and never have had any warranties - i do not believe in paying for warranties - sale of goods act covers it all - so when my sky hd box started playing up i complained to sky, i got a derisive answer from a sky person on the other end of a very expensive phone call. As i do not have to put up with this i contacted Mr James Murdoch - result? New sky box.... moral of the story - when you complain go to the top.

Spot on!

"This does not affect your statutary rights", the magic words that are part of all warranties, why? .... Because the Sale of Goods Act overides them all! No one is above the law ... not even Sky!

ATB

Max
 
I started off this post about 3 weeks ago in connection with my signal strength varying between the 2 channels on my HD box. Since then on an infrequent basis (every couple of days) the signal has been going down and we end up with a blank screen and a bit of a buzzing(?) sound. The odd thing is that this happens at around the same time each day that it happens ie between 5:45 and 6 in the evening - odd or what??
Tonight it cut off and we lost several hours of recorded Euro golf which me and the other half quite enjoy, very frustrating. The box is only 10 months old and I bought it on ebay - brand new and very pleased until the last few weeks when things have been going downhill. Will Sky replace the box even though not bought from them - I'm paying them close to £70 per month what with the HD box and Sports and b/band and their telephone, so hope they will be supportive!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have been looking at the various posts re replacement PSU's from Satcure (and I'm a bit of a techno freak when it comes to electronics - give me something mechanical and I'm fine!!) but dont see why I should go to this extent when the box is less than a year old.
Think I will phone Sky over the next couple of days and see what their attitude is.
Any thoughts from you out there would be much appreciated????
 
I started off this post about 3 weeks ago in connection with my signal strength varying between the 2 channels on my HD box. Since then on an infrequent basis (every couple of days) the signal has been going down and we end up with a blank screen and a bit of a buzzing(?) sound. The odd thing is that this happens at around the same time each day that it happens ie between 5:45 and 6 in the evening - odd or what??
Tonight it cut off and we lost several hours of recorded Euro golf which me and the other half quite enjoy, very frustrating. The box is only 10 months old and I bought it on ebay - brand new and very pleased until the last few weeks when things have been going downhill. Will Sky replace the box even though not bought from them - I'm paying them close to £70 per month what with the HD box and Sports and b/band and their telephone, so hope they will be supportive!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have been looking at the various posts re replacement PSU's from Satcure (and I'm a bit of a techno freak when it comes to electronics - give me something mechanical and I'm fine!!) but dont see why I should go to this extent when the box is less than a year old.
Think I will phone Sky over the next couple of days and see what their attitude is.
Any thoughts from you out there would be much appreciated????

Still sounds like a PSU problem to me, but I think if you go to Sky they'll offer to fix it (i.e. replace with refurbished box) for their standard fee (£60?). After all, as you say they're getting £70 a month from you which they might lose.
 

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