Shutter speeds on a canon 350D

jezzerr

Novice Member
Im going to be using the 350D to take some pictures of my child on xmas morning opening her presents ive been told that i would need to use a fast shutter speed so i wont get any motion blur,Someone said i should be using 1/200 but on the camera i see nothing saying 1/200 when i try to dial in the shutter speed,But i do see 200 so would this be 1/200? Ive noticed when its down to 200 the exsposure level is down to -2. I will be using the onboard flash.

This is when im in manual mode.
 

Jammyb

Novice Member
Depends on the focal length being used and the subject movement.

A child opening presents using a focal length of say 35mm (around 50mm equiv) 1/50s is probably ok, but aim for more like 1/100 to 1/200 if you can to get more keepers. With an IS lens you can go slower, but not too much.

Personally not a fan of manual mode for this type of thing. I'd stick to Av mode, aperture wide open then raise the ISO to keep the shutter speed up. Maybe sit by a window to maximise soft natural light.

If using a flash then yeah stick it in Manual mode, ISO200 to 400 maybe and 1/200s and the flash will fill in for the lack of light.
 

jezzerr

Novice Member
Hi

Yes i normally use AV mode but as its indoors and quite low light im going to have it set to M mode,Ive not yet used M mode yet. So 1/100 to 1/200 will that just display as 100 and 200 on the camera?

Thanks
 
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Jammyb

Novice Member
Yes, but just to be clear I'd only use M mode in conjunction with a flash unless you're sure what you're doing.

Onboard flash is fairly harsh and unflattering, so make use of natural light where you can. Though kids on Xmas day are unlikely to want to wait till mid morning. You can look at some home made onboard flash modifiers if you want to try and soften things up.

DIY onboard flash diffuser - Google Search
 

jezzerr

Novice Member
I dont think ill get away with saying lets wait a bit longer to open your presents lol,Yes i was just going to use M when i need the flash,Then i shall go back to AV mode when i can.

I have noticed the flash is a bit over powering so i think i will need a diffuser of some sort cheers for the link.

I had heared of the ping pong ball method.
 

Ian_S

Distinguished Member
AV mode in poor light that needs a flash will give poor photos as the shutter speed will be for ambient light, not flash so you'll get very long shutter speeds. With on-board flash you need A or P modes, or M. I would also use ISO400 so any background is not too dark.

1/100 will be fine. IS will be of no use, or make no improvement unless your children are good at keeping very still, unlikely on Xmas morning.

M mode is good with flash as it will vary flash output to try and meet exposure, which isn't actually very manual at all. Set M mode to 1/100, f/8.0, and ISO 400 and have a play, I think you'll be surprised as long as you don't ask the impossible.

What you will struggle with will be red eye with the on-board, but that's easily fixed later.

Have a play before the morning, it'll show you that M mode with flash is actually a good auto mode... :D
 

jezzerr

Novice Member
Thanks for that advice.

My lens only goes from 3.5-5.6

Yes im sure red eye will be on nearly every photo but as you say it can be sorted later.
 

Ian_S

Distinguished Member
Thanks for that advice.

My lens only goes from 3.5-5.6
No..... ;)

The f/3.5-5.6 means that at 18mm the smallest aperture value is f/3.5 and at say 55mm the smallest aperture value increases to f/5.6. That means you can't use a value less than those at those lengths.

You will however be able to set larger values. The electronics in the camera and lens will prevent you from being able to set values that the lens doesn't support.
 

jezzerr

Novice Member
O dear i seem to had got the aperture value all wrong,playing with the camera i now see what it means 3.5-5.6.

Thanks for that.
 

12harry

Distinguished Member
Strictly jezzerr, - these are the largest apertures, ie the most amount of light will reach the sensor - but it creates limited Dept-of-Filed and if there is flash about you will be overexposed. I will agree that the camera software should prevent incorret exposures.

Have you tried taking photos of said-child playing with small toy parts, or unwrapping a sealed-box etc.?
Practice before the Event - with digital you can delete for free. You need to get Framing/Snap second-nature otherwise you might as well have bought a "fun camera" - one with face/smile-recognition would be even better, maybe under £100.
FWIW I think fitting brighter room-light is far easier. Flash is yet another nightmare for the inexperienced. . . . .
 
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jezzerr

Novice Member
Hi

This isn't the first time ive taken pictures at xmas but this is the first time with the 350D for the past 2 or 3years ive been using a canon G9,And was amazed on how i captured the paper half ripped or her smile etc...

Yes if only i could get the room brighter so then its more natural,Then i could capture the xmas atmosphere like the lights on the tree and window,But sadly i cant think of a way to get the room light enough so i can take pictures without the flash.
 
Hi
Yes if only i could get the room brighter so then its more natural,Then i could capture the xmas atmosphere like the lights on the tree and window,But sadly i cant think of a way to get the room light enough so i can take pictures without the flash.

Is the light in the room really so poor? How far have you pushed the ISO up?

The 350D isn't great at high ISO (i have one), but I've taken shots at ISO800 indoors, thus allowing a reasonable shutter speed in low light and been able to remove most of the noise in Lightroom 3 afterwards. Just an idea.

If you're going to use the on-board flash, then you may as well shoot in full auto mode and let the camera decide the settings. especially Christmas when you don't want to risk missing that perfect shot. Just a thought.

Darren
 

12harry

Distinguished Member
Replace all those Low-Energy 8W lamps for something nearer to 30W Low-Energy (=150w filament) - although I see some stores selling halogen lights (but they will get hot, + risk of smells from light-sockets!).

BETTER: Buy a builder's 500W halogen lamp and tripod (£19 complete) - reflect the light off the white (is it?) ceiling and the whole room will be transformed. Take the pictures . . . . switch off. Make sure everyone knows about the flex and keeps away from the lamp-housing, for that reason alone I'd never put one near curtains - put at the far-side, but so no-one can look into the lamp. You need to set Auto White Balance, or set to "Halogen" etc.... again practice beforehand - this practice will make the children more-relaxed, later on (And it helps you the same!).

I also came across this, which might be useful for any friends you've not seen, visitors, etc. Make sure the wife is on-hand with a powder-puff to keep her in the loop, mainly.

Don't forget that you have the "fall-back" of the earlier camera - indeed why not compare pics with the two cameras.....AFTER you are familiar with the new one. I've seen many folks who buy a fancy camera and looking at the pix shows no difference.... don't let that happen, here....Practice lights, Practice camera.
Good Luck.
BTW those light fittings he's demo are a fortune! However, they are lovely even light and wrap up into a small bag. The Builder's Lamp can go in the Garage/Loft when cool, with a polly bag over it to keep clean.
 
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jezzerr

Novice Member
Is the light in the room really so poor? How far have you pushed the ISO up?

The 350D isn't great at high ISO (i have one), but I've taken shots at ISO800 indoors, thus allowing a reasonable shutter speed in low light and been able to remove most of the noise in Lightroom 3 afterwards. Just an idea.

If you're going to use the on-board flash, then you may as well shoot in full auto mode and let the camera decide the settings. especially Christmas when you don't want to risk missing that perfect shot. Just a thought.

Darren

Yea the room doesn't light up to well,Ive tried iso 800 but the light in the room is pretty bad so the shutter speed doesn't improve. Im going to have to have a good play at the weekend.



Replace all those Low-Energy 8W lamps for something nearer to 30W Low-Energy (=150w filament) - although I see some stores selling halogen lights (but they will get hot, + risk of smells from light-sockets!).

BETTER: Buy a builder's 500W halogen lamp and tripod (£19 complete) - reflect the light off the white (is it?) ceiling and the whole room will be transformed. Take the pictures . . . . switch off. Make sure everyone knows about the flex and keeps away from the lamp-housing, for that reason alone I'd never put one near curtains - put at the far-side, but so no-one can look into the lamp. You need to set Auto White Balance, or set to "Halogen" etc.... again practice beforehand - this practice will make the children more-relaxed, later on (And it helps you the same!).

I also came across this, which might be useful for any friends you've not seen, visitors, etc. Make sure the wife is on-hand with a powder-puff to keep her in the loop, mainly.
Three point video lighting tutorial - YouTube

Don't forget that you have the "fall-back" of the earlier camera - indeed why not compare pics with the two cameras.....AFTER you are familiar with the new one. I've seen many folks who buy a fancy camera and looking at the pix shows no difference.... don't let that happen, here....Practice lights, Practice camera.
Good Luck.
BTW those light fittings he's demo are a fortune! However, they are lovely even light and wrap up into a small bag. The Builder's Lamp can go in the Garage/Loft when cool, with a polly bag over it to keep clean.

Thanks for that video clip looks a great way to do it,Nice idea about the builders lamp cheaper way to improve things,I dont have a low energey bulb in the living room just a normal 60w bulb.

Just messing around with one of those white plastic tubes you get from a photo shop to put your 35mil film in,I cut a piece out of the tube and placed it over the flash,Didn't seem to make any difference,These is with the light turned down so i could get the effect of the xmas lights,Not a good time to take a quick pic as my daughter is not well.

Actually looking at the wallpaper the flash mod pictures seem to be a bit better the lights on the window and tree seems better.What do you think? Also my daughters face looks more natural?

tubeTest.jpg


Flash Mod:

tubeTest-2.jpg



Living Room Light On

tubeTestlights.jpg


Flash Mod

tubeTestlights-2.jpg
 
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12harry

Distinguished Member
I'm beginning to see the problem. A 60w bulb doesn't help, you'll need glasses before long, my own sitting room is lit by 3x 40w clear (in prismatic glass shades, otherwise you lose the effect), a standing lamp where I read is 75w (now Low-energy eq.) and there are two wall lights 40w ea and a third 2x 40w - the wall-light wirng was installed via the kitchen cupboards, so avoiding replastering, or exposed wiring.

Good to see your pics
- I think they are too dark.... Paint Shop Pro will fix almost anything, but some extra exposure in-camera would help.

In general;
To have one picture that exposes two subjects needs two exposure regimes:
but you will need a tripod, ideally set the camera to delay - an advantage is you can all be in the picture...job done!
1), Determin the flash output for the distance between camera(flash) and daughter (hope's she's well soon). Shutter needs to trip connected flash, so it must be in "flash" mode.
2), A slow shutter to expose the Xmas tree so, even if it's flashing, you have enough exposure. Camera may need to set on 1 sec, although somewhat longer might help, if you can have this. [RTFM].

So it's a balance between two subjects and one aperture - by adjusting the shutter-time you set the lights on the trees. - by adjusting the flash-power [RTFM again], you can get the face exposed. Don't know yr camera, but you should look to have Aperture Priority to stop it being changed....better still "Manual"

+ Now the room: - Well, that's just got to take its chances.....good luck.

You will prob. find the room is too dark and any further fiddling loses either tree-lights -or- face. However, you can change the room lighting by changing bulbs - some experimenting is needed . . . . who thought photography is easy!

BTW those diffuse lights (on the Vid) are nearly £100 apiece and equiv 500W.
However when using flash their colour-temperature will be closer, although for value-for-money the Builder-light is pretty good - and very good for painting ceilings, as you don't "miss" bits (or does yr Misses do the top-painting?). Ordinary tungsten lights will tend to make the walls look yellow.
 
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jezzerr

Novice Member
Hi

You are right they are on the dark side they were just test shots as they were at night,I wanted to see if the tube i put over the flash would make the flash better on the skin colours you cant really see as the pictures are not good as the room was darkish,But it does seem to make the wallpaper look less brighter and more as it would if you were to see the wallpaper with your own eyes.

Thanks for those tips,I cant bounce any light of the ceiling as i have tinsel going across so i think it would look worse,Seems my daughter is feeling a bit better today thanks.

Cant win with my living room at the moment this morning and now the sun is right in the living room so i had to draw the curtains to take this picture,This was at F3.5 ISO 400 with the little flash mod.

I might go out later and see if i can get a brighter light bulb it might make it better.

The picture was of Dino not my daugter....

I think its going to depened on what the lighting is going to be on xmas day if its going to be a dull day then it will be harder to get a decent picture but im sure i can work it out.

PhotoBucket seems to make the picture look worse than it really is,My daugters face looks all wrong here but it looks better on the computer.

Thanks

Test_.jpg
 
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Jammyb

Novice Member
I suggest shooting RAW rather than JPEG as you'll find it much easier to correct your white balance and exposure in post.

Is it too late to ask for hotshoe flash for xmas?
 

jezzerr

Novice Member
I do shoot in RAW but these pictures are just quick ones so not done any touching up in lightroom.

Dam shame i should of asked for a hotshoe flash its to late but i should have some money after xmas so i think that will be on the list of things to get,Even thought it will be to late by then but on the good side ill have 12months to practice lol
 

gangzoom

Well-known Member
One thing I hate using is the built flash on my 450D. But given I haven't got a external flash I tend to try get away without using it when ever possible, and with a little practice at holding the camera steady you can get some decent shots.

jezzerr; What shutter speed are you using? For in door shoots without a flash I tend to use as slow speed shutter speed I can get away without the picture becoming blurred, use as high ISO as possible (my 450D goes up to 1600). Also try framing the shots slightly differently, may be focus in on the face of the subject and have the xmas tree in the background. I've found trying to light up a whole room with the built in flash always produces under-exposed pictures.

None of the pics below have had must post processing, just a tiny bit of cropping in the last pic.
img7016tk.jpg

40mm zoom, f 3.5, ISO 800, 1/45 sec exposure, no flash in doors day time, Sigma 17-70mm 2.8-4 lens
dsc0045kd.jpg

40mm zoom, f 4.0, ISO 200, 1/15 sec exposure, no flash in doors day time, Tamron 17-50mm 2.8 lens
dsc0029ar.jpg

40mm zoom, f 2.8, ISO 200, 1/20 sec exposure, no flash in doors day time, Tamron 17-50mm 2.8 lens
 
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jezzerr

Novice Member
Nice pictures you have taken gangzoom i can see that has way more light than my living room has,Ive been using 1/100 shutter speed,ISO 400. Dont know how yours compares to the 350D but high iso indoors in my house doesn't do much,If i could put a energy saving light bulb in then i think i could get quite nice pictures for xmas,But i cant put those bulbs in because the livingroom has a dimer switch.

Thanks
 

gangzoom

Well-known Member
Nice pictures you have taken gangzoom i can see that has way more light than my living room has,Ive been using 1/100 shutter speed,ISO 400. Dont know how yours compares to the 350D but high iso indoors in my house doesn't do much,If i could put a energy saving light bulb in then i think i could get quite nice pictures for xmas,But i cant put those bulbs in because the livingroom has a dimer switch.

Thanks

Have you tried shooting with a longer exposure time, I've found 1/40 is usually fast enough to capture most human expressions, sometimes you can get away with even 1/20. Play around with all the settings and see which gives the best effect.
 

jezzerr

Novice Member
No so far ive just been shooting at 1/100,Ill play around more with shutter speeds. Thanks

EDIT: When you say 1/40 1/20 is that when you have the flash off? If you were saying with the flash off then thats no good for me as my lighting is poor i have to have some kind of flash.

As im using the flash how slow i can i set the shutter speed?
 
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Jammyb

Novice Member
1/60s I believe, won't make much difference as most of the light will still be coming from the flash, but tree lights will be brighter.

You can buy dimmable energy saving lamps, 20W are equiv to 100W, they produce a cooler less yellow light as well which personally I prefer
dimmable energy saving spiral 20w - Google Search

edit: Mmm actually the tech doesn't seem that great
 
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jezzerr

Novice Member
I thought great when i saw those links thinking they have started to make those lights where you can use them on a dim switch,But then i read this:Important: Do NOT attempt to use this bulb with a dimmer switch. This may damage the light bulb beyond repair. This light bulb contains its own dimmer. Use with a conventional light switch!

Thanks anyway....

Cheers for regarding shutter speed.
 

jezzerr

Novice Member
Well i do now know what im going to get after xmas a good flash plus the nifty fifty as i think getting some nice blur in the background would be great in some pictures of my daughter at xmas so then the picture will stand out more and be all about her not her and the tree decs etc...
 

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