Should TV channels be held responsible for logo damage on Oled

Ibis

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Haven't got an oled, but seems to me people are missing a trick. If a tv channel display's a constant logo or replicates logo or similar in the same position and this causes should the consumer be able to claim legal damages against the broadcast company? Maybe a class action would get some to change their ways. There are ways to send realtime scores etc without having to display all the time. Thought this might be worth a discussion.
 
No of course not, that would be absurd.

It's entirely your choice and responsibility what you display on your TV. You are in no way forced to watch any particular content source.
 
And buying an oled is also a choice.

Although I've read these newer oleds have technology to help with preventing these problems from occurring ...although how they stop you watching sky news all day everyday is beyond me. 😉
 
The days of burn in on oled TVs has changed...the manufactures have taken steps to help prevent this.i have a LG 55B7 oled TV since September 20q7 and watch mixed content and game on it.. oled is a different beast to LCD tvs with led backlighting...care and attention is needed like setting up the tvs picture settings...I can honestly say this is the BEST TV I've ever owned...and I haven't experienced any burn in at all...in fact to me the picture seemed to improved since I've had the tv.
 
If a commerical broadcast company has left damage through their logo for example, advertising their brand and that logo is burned onto your screen. They have not made reaonable adjustments to negate damage I think there might a legal case, certainly across the pond.
 
That's why I have stayed with the higher end QLED Samsungs. You still get a sexy picture and are guaranteed against screen burn
 
Haven't got an oled, but seems to me people are missing a trick. If a tv channel display's a constant logo or replicates logo or similar in the same position and this causes should the consumer be able to claim legal damages against the broadcast company? Maybe a class action would get some to change their ways. There are ways to send realtime scores etc without having to display all the time. Thought this might be worth a discussion.

If we are to experience the very best televisions money can buy then yes something needs to be done , whether the TV manufacturers make some form of agreement with the broadcasting companies whereby they use a different colour logo or a transparent logo [ I don't know ] or they agree to limit the amount of times that logos are shown -My first choice was an LG B9 but I chose to buy an LED TV as I was scared of my investment developing Burn In .
Very frustrating .
 
No.
The TV should be able to cope with 100% white.
This is the reason I haven't got an OLED plus the 'secreenwashes'.
 
The technology is reminiscent of the days of plasma burn-in. There are plenty of posts on AVForums about screen damage on OLED displays caused my static images. Manufacturers seem to ignore the fact that broadcasters like splattering logos, static banner bars and other guff across their output. People have favourite channels and these often come with this screen garbage. That OLED screens need regular screenwashing, or whatever it's called, tells much about the lack of robustness of the technology. I suppose that if you only ever watched material without much in the way of on-screen nonsense you'd be OK, but in spite of the picture improvements over LED technology, I won't consider OLEDs for my viewing.

Clem
 
I can remember seeing burn-in on CRT TVs back in the 80s. Admittedly it was in a gym where a CRT was showing the same image all day every day.

I bought a Panasonic plasma display in 2006 and had it for 10 years. No image retention whatsoever. I watch a mixture of channels including Sky Sports with the score shown for 45 mins before a break. Never a problem.

In 2016 I switched to a OLED TV and had it calibrated. In 3 years no image retention. After 5 hours of viewing a screen 'wash' is performed when the TV is turned off. No gaming but even if I did I would be sensible and avoid having the same image shown for several hours.

Nothing wrong with plasma or OLED. Just employ a bit of common sense when using them. If watching Sky News all day (why???) there are ad breaks and switching to another channel for a minute or two is hardly a chore.
 
Samsung have self emitting quantum dots working in the lab.
It will take time but OLED's writing is on the display panel.

@RayP - there is also the lifetime to consider. Organic compounds have a shorter life than crystalline ones.
 
Samsung have self emitting quantum dots working in the lab.
It will take time but OLED's writing is on the display panel.

@RayP - there is also the lifetime to consider. Organic compounds have a shorter life than crystalline ones.
Don't understand your point about OLED's writing on the display panel. Yes, nothing lasts forever and the advice about plasma was the brightness reduces to about half in 10 years or maybe less. I never noticed any difference. Whether I will still have this TV in 6 years is a moot point.
 
@RayP: Why should I have to apply 'common sense' when I want to watch something on TV? It's a piece of domestic/consumer equipment. If it has to be used in a special way to avoid it being damaged then it's not fit for purpose in my book.

Clem
 
@Clem_Dye , the clue is the words "common sense". It doesn't have to be used in a special way. You just avoid the situations where damage might be caused. Would you walk across the road without looking first? Of course not. So why keep the same channel on without switching briefly to another just to prevent the problem?

And I hope you've taken yours out of 'dynamic mode' that it ships with. Another common sense move. ;)
 
@RayP: but having to remember to do something on a frequent basis still suggests that the product is not fit for purpose. My LED TV isn't in dynamic mode, but even if it was, I wouldn't be worrying about it cooking the screen. Each to their own, obviously.

Clem
 
I had a Samsung plasma which got burn in but LCDs weren't anywhere near as good as they are now.
My 65DX902B does a very good job for me to keep it until it degrades or dies.
 
@RayP: but having to remember to do something on a frequent basis still suggests that the product is not fit for purpose. My LED TV isn't in dynamic mode, but even if it was, I wouldn't be worrying about it cooking the screen. Each to their own, obviously.

Clem
It only needs doing if you’re watching hours of television on one channel. How often does that happen? Personally, I rarely watch more than 30 mins of any channel that has a ticker-tape banner. We’re all different so people should be aware of the consequences.

I don’t know about LED TVs but my OLED has a routine to clean the screen.
 
Burning was something of the past with PLASMA with a constant picture shown for hours on end. ok if it is moving like "fireside" on Amazon. But a single picture could cause problems and it seems that OLED and QLED could be a problem particular with early ones ie 3 years old ! Is that old for a TV well it is for a OLED or for a curved screen (>) In time all tvs will degrade ,ans there is a reason why because manufacturers do not want you to keep a TV for 10 years they want you to buy a new one every 3/5 years or less ! Oh look a new type of TV is out I must buy it to keep up with the neighbours. (not here) I would admit we in this house have our two TVs (Plasma) on for an average of 12 hours or more a day ! wife likes the shopping channels (BOO) me I like Amazon and Netflix ( superb) But like all Tvs we now switch them off completely from the power when finished , this I think helps to prevent "burning " . well that's my opinion. But I am a little worried that guys may end up with burning on one screen down just after 3 years oh dear me ! Is this a deliberate attempt by the makers to make you buy another "!
 
I have posted on another thread that I have just exchanged a LG B6 for a Samsung Q90 due to screen burn on the LG caused by the Good Morning Britain logo. Considering this is a show that only airs for two and a half hours between Monday and Friday, you’d think it not a risk, add to that the fact my other half most probably watches no more than thirty minutes daily, you’d think the risk was negligible, but it wasn’t, Richer Sounds came up trumps but the reply I got from Good Morning Britain after writing them a lengthy letter wasn’t. Here’s the response


“Thank you for your recent email.

All broadcasters use on-screen graphics and many channels, especially News and Sport stations, use static on-air captions which can remain in the same location for many hours. However, I have spoken to our technical team and they have confirmed that domestic equipment should not be affected by screen burn during normal operation if it is set up correctly.

We are transmitting a legal signal with levels within tolerance and we comply with EBU Recommendation R129 (Guidance on avoiding 'image retention' on displays). Our Graphics Designer and Graphics Supplier are experienced broadcast professionals and feel that our graphics are a good mix of clarity and unobtrusiveness whilst conforming to our event stylebook.

If you have any concerns you may like to reduce settings for contrast, brightness and colour to between 50 and 70%. However, I would advise you to contact the manufacturer of your TV directly if you require further information or advice.

Thanks again for taking the time to contact us.”​
 
Just having the 'screen wash' would put me off.
 
Just having the 'screen wash' would put me off.
Why? It kicks in when I turn it off with the remote. The LED turns blue showing its cleaning the screen. It helps protect the screen. I’d be more concerned if it didn’t have a cleaning process.
 
The issue isn't so much 'burn in' as 'burn out' or more uneven wear. Each sub-pixel has a certain life span and having a red logo, which only uses the red sub-pixel and on continuously causes those to wear significantly more than the rest of the red sub-pixels that are varying in intensity and can be 'off' too if the colour displayed doesn't have any red in it.

This is why you see the logo only affecting the Red slide. The Red sub-pixels have worn out. Obviously it can affect the Magenta (red and blue) and Yellow (red and green) slides too because the Red is no longer present so the area looks Blue or Green. On grey slides, the area is Cyan because there is no more red.

It really depends on the life of the individual sub-pixels and the logo on screen. It's also why its a cumulative effect - it doesn't matter if you only watch an hour a day with other content watched in between - that hour adds up to 7hrs a week, 365hrs a year etc of wearing those sub-pixels faster than the rest. Its worse with a single colour (Red, Green, Blue) because these are using just 1 sub-pixel and intensely to get the brightness. White logos use all 3 sub-pixels equally so the work load is shared and some logos are more a transparency too.

If you only watch 21:9 ratio content, eventually the middle of the screen will be 'dimmer' because these sub-pixels will have worn more. Then when you watch full screen content, the black bar areas will be more noticeably brighter because they have had much less use and therefore not worn.

Burn in would require a static image to be displayed continuously without turning off or changing channels. OLED TV's, I believe, do have safeguards in place to minimise that risk, such as dimming the screen, using screensavers and/or pixel shifting but its much more difficult to even up the wear. Individual sub-pixels may start off with the same amount of 'Life', but certain things can cause them to burn through that life faster than the rest - such as static logo's/boxes etc - because they have to be on continuously.

If you look at the CNN red Slide (max brightness) on the RTING's test, its clear that the Red logo has used up the life of the Red sub-pixels in that area. However, you can also see where People are on screen.

real-burn-in-week-94-tv-3-red-small.jpg


You can see that in some areas, the red has worn out completely - so we get 'black' but if we go to the Magenta slide (red and blue), we see the black become blue showing that the Blue sub-pixels are still working...

real-burn-in-week-94-tv-3-magenta-small.jpg


This is indicative of uneven wear rather than burn in....

Compare that Red Slide to the one at regular Brightness...

real-burn-in-week-94-tv-2-red-small.jpg


You can see that despite displaying the same content, the red slide shows much less wear/deterioration. This again is to be expected as the sub-pixels are not being used as intensly/brightly so therefore not wearing out as fast. A candle that burns twice as brightly burns half as long... A lightbulb used with a dimmer switch lasts longer than one that's on full too...

Sony have guidelines to minimise this - zoom in on 21:9, don't use EPG's (or be very quick) etc. All things to keep the wear more even across the panel. Its not just a Channel logo that can affect the evenness of the wear but watching news with ticker tape scrolling which is still moving, EPG boxes and, as this shows, even moving people such as a newsreader, can wear certain sub-pixels faster than the 'background'.

The problem isn't 'burn-in' on the traditional sense so its not about limiting your news viewing to an hour or two a day and making sure you have the screen wash active. Its still going to cause more wear to some sub-pixels compared to the rest and the more you watch, the bigger the difference in wear becomes. The sub-pixels have a finite life so if they are being used more and brighter than the others, they are using up more of their life and thus will fade until eventually they cannot illuminate at all. It will happen to ALL sub-pixels eventually - its just that some content causes that to happen to certain areas quicker - thus this is 'uneven wear' rather than burn in.

I don't know what the solution is, who is at fault or should be made accountable. I do think that maybe OLEDs are NOT the best technology for everyone - certainly not for those that watch certain content with constant regularity - maybe not those with Kids that watch NickJr for a couple of hours everyday for example or spend hours looking through Netflix to find something to watch. At least with Netflix, I guess you can look on other devices and add to 'my List' to minimise the amount of time that Logo is on screen.

There is no denying that OLEDs have amazing PQ but by design and the very nature of content will lead to uneven wear. An image isn't consistently using all sub-pixels evenly so there will be uneven wear - its whether or not the wear will even up over time or whether you continue to display certain content that is wearing out certain sub-pixels faster so that gap becomes larger and larger until it becomes noticeable....
 
I am sure this story will go on and on ! The question do you a leg to stand on taking the manufacture to court if you not covered in warranty ???
 
Not if you have been made aware of this.
 

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