Should there be vaccine passports?

Should there be vaccine passports?

  • Yes

    Votes: 100 41.2%
  • No

    Votes: 100 41.2%
  • Yes for only for big crowd functions (like holidays + festivals)

    Votes: 43 17.7%

  • Total voters
    243

inkinoo

Distinguished Member
advocating for mandatory vaccinations is as abhorrent a position as being anti vax.
Except I’m not advocating for that.

Even if I was, to say it’s as abhorrent as being anti vax is nonsense.

If people choose not to get vaccinated, then there is certain things they can’t do. This has already been the case for some jobs and travel to certain countries.
 

TimCypher

Standard Member
The point is, are you happy to have a vaccinated person spread and give you Covid at the venue you're attending? With such a high proportion of hospitalised cases being double vaxxed and more cases being vaxxed than not, it seems nonsensical to stop unvaccinated from entering, tested or not, but give the vaccinated free rein to potentially infect others.

Well, I don’t think anyone would be happy to get Covid.

But the data is clear that vaccinated and unvaccinated people are not the same in terms of their ability to get infected and transmit the virus.

As of last week, there are now three studies available on this, from Imperial College, from the University of Warwick and from the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine.

And all three studies show a very significant drop in infection and transmissibility rates for folks that are double-vaccinated.

Taking an average of all three reports, if you’ve had two doses of Pfizer or Moderna, you are 79% less likely to get infected. That is to say that, of 100 people who have had two doses, 79 of them are completely immune from Covid infection. The equivalent number for AZ is 63%.

Now, that’s just for infections - because if you can’t get infected, then you can’t possibly pass it on.

If you are unlucky and find yourself in the minority that does still get infected, your viral load will be much lower than someone who was not vaccinated. And this has a corresponding impact on your ability to transmit, reducing it by 45% for Pfizer / Moderna and by 41% for AZ.

So, putting those number together, you’d be unable to catch the virus from 88% of people who have had two doses of Pfizer / Moderna and 78% of people who had AZ.

That is very significant, and cannot be ignored if reducing community transmission is your goal. So now, the government is not ignoring it and have decided to push forward with making potential super-spreader venues double-vaxxed only. That brings us in line with what other European countries like France, Austria and Greece are doing.

I do share some of the ‘moral concerns’ you raise. I wouldn’t like to see this or anything like this still in force in a post-pandemic world. But, for now, it seems practical and sensible. Better this than having to shut these venues down completely. This at least gives them a chance of staying open during the winter months.
 

Judge Mental

Well-known Member
That would be fine in my opinion.

But barring unvaccinated people is morally wrong in my opinion.

As the above poster put, it's fine for vaccinated people to go out and catch/spread but unvaccinated are being punished. Again 60% of hospital admissions are unvaccinated, that means the other 40% are vaccinated, that's quite a high proportion. So the vaccine clearly isn't as effective as initially thought (was supposed to minimise hospitalisation/strain on the NHS).

I do understand that in theory if you've been vaccinated you shouldn't get it as bad or die, but if you end up hospitalised we're back to the whole "strain on the NHS" thing.
I suspect this is shroud waving and may not happen but creating the fear that it might could nudge the apathetic towards getting vaccinated.
 

ostewart

Well-known Member
I think it's a big bluff to increase uptake!

If not, it's another nail in the coffin for the events industry - an industry that cannot take any more punitive measures from the government...

Pubs have been fine for ages, but nightclubs and music events are a big no-no.
 

inkinoo

Distinguished Member
If not, it's another nail in the coffin for the events industry - an industry that cannot take any more punitive measures from the government...

Pubs have been fine for ages, but nightclubs and music events are a big no-no.
Given the vast majority of adults are happy to have the vaccine, I don't see how it do any harm. If vaccination rates were less than 20% then I would understand, but 88% of the adult population have had their first dose.
 

The Thorne

Well-known Member
Also some people are too young to have the jab. Also having the vaccine doesn't stop you from catching and spreading Covid. I don't think vaccine passports should be implemented.
The argument I heard yesterday is by stopping unvaccinated from going to nightclubs, you are protecting them from potentially much worse outcomes .

yes double vaccinated can still get it but hopefully the huge majority will only have minor or no symptoms. But then so arguably do most under 25s anyway.

I can kind of see the point, that having a negative test when you go in isn’t going to help you if you catch it when you are there.
 

Laureline

Well-known Member
Given the vast majority of adults are happy to have the vaccine, I don't see how it do any harm. If vaccination rates were less than 20% then I would understand, but 88% of the adult population have had their first dose.

Unfortunately the 88% figure is a bit misleading. Looking at the age ranges of those who've received at least one dose

gUARDIAN VACCINATION.jpg


Then for those aged 18-30 you have around 50% of the population without even the first dose. Precisely the ag of those who go to clubs.
 

inkinoo

Distinguished Member
Unfortunately the 88% figure is a bit misleading. Looking at the age ranges of those who've received at least one dose

View attachment 1544648

Then for those aged 18-30 you have around 50% of the population without even the first dose. Precisely the ag of those who go to clubs.
The current dashboard says 46.3 million first doses have been administered.


How is that not correct?
 

The Thorne

Well-known Member
I think It might be a good idea to ban the vaccinated obese too seeing as they are more likely to spread the virus about.
Really evidence ahem. Yes they were more likely to get sick statistically unvaccinated but I have seen nothing saying that is still the case when vaccinated and certainly nothing saying they are more likely to spread it.
 

TimCypher

Standard Member
Then for those aged 18-30 you have around 50% of the population without even the first dose. Precisely the ag of those who go to clubs.
The policy, assuming it goes ahead, is not coming into force until the end of September. That’s ample time for any unvaccinated 18-30s to get both jabs.
 

Saul Goodman

Distinguished Member
Really evidence ahem. Yes they were more likely to get sick statistically unvaccinated but I have seen nothing saying that is still the case when vaccinated and certainly nothing saying they are more likely to spread it.

 

Doctor Wibble

Active Member
It does look like it.
I forgot about the dog in blade 3.



I'll have rewatch blade again soon.
After conducting extensive research* I must sadly inform you that these were two different locations. That said, one might argue that blood is relevant in both cases - a negative test for one, and BYOB for the other.



* two googles and a youtube I believe is the standard to meet this definition
 

Morden

Well-known Member
After conducting extensive research* I must sadly inform you that these were two different locations. That said, one might argue that blood is relevant in both cases - a negative test for one, and BYOB for the other.



* two googles and a youtube I believe is the standard to meet this definition
Edinburgh film festival had a themed experience night showing blade, then recreating the nightclub scene in 2018 for 20th anniversary

I wish i had manged to be able to go.


Before Black Panther, There Was Blade… | Edinburgh International Film Festival

EIFF Play: Blade
 

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