Should their be an area for Blu-Ray/HD-DVD disussion?

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by Rob20, Feb 14, 2005.

  1. Rob20

    Rob20
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    With the HD-DVD format out in less than a year, and Blu-Ray out in just over, I would assume forum members would like somewhere for them to post news discuss the benefits/weaknesses of each etc.. at the moment I'm not sure where news should go, (or where other people put them). Perhaps a joint HD/BR thread would do at first covering all aspects of the formats, (players, recorders, discs etc.), all in the one thread? WHAT DO YOU THINK?
     
  2. Rasczak

    Rasczak
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  3. KraGorn

    KraGorn
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    But why is it in the Recorders forum? It's playback technology surely? :confused:

    I'd never have known about that thread if it weren't for your post.
     
  4. Rasczak

    Rasczak
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    Because I started it and I 'live' in the DVD recorders forum :)

    Seriously BluRay is primarily starting as recording technology whilst HD DVD is primarily starting as playback - although both will do vice versa. It had to go in one or other of the forums...
     
  5. Rob20

    Rob20
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    Doh! how did i miss that!?

    edit: Ah!, I didn't. That is just a thread. Not even a sticky one at that. I'm tallking about having a permanent area where people can discuss the new technologies. There are hundreds of areas on this forum, surely there's room for a combined HD-DVD/Blu-Ray forum? :smashin:
     
  6. Rob20

    Rob20
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    At least I'm not the only one who missed it. Still reckon there should be a seperate forum area.
     
  7. KraGorn

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    As someone with zero interest in PVRs I was under the impression both techologies were basically about commercial releases of hidef movies, you surprise me by saying BluRay is aimed as the PVR market.

    I agree with Rob though, I think it could usefully be perhaps a sub-forum of this one.
     
  8. AML

    AML
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    You could argue that D-VHS should have one too, but since this technology wont last much longer, theres really not much point. Both HD DVD and Blu Ray still have to prove themselves worthy of their own section.
     
  9. Rob20

    Rob20
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    But surely a format based on tapes was never going to succeed in the long term anyway? Especially after people had experienced the conveneince benefits of the disc format. Does anybody feel that hi-definition discs will fail? I don't. Hi-def tv has been a resounding success in Japan/USA, why would hi-def discs not be? Especially when more and more people are looking to buy large lcd/plasma screens. There are whole seperate forums discussing Blu-Ray and HD-DVD, (www.blu-ray.com). Surely there's room here. Even if it's just a sub forum, or sticky at a push.
     
  10. Rasczak

    Rasczak
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    No. HD DVD is very much aimed at commercial releases: it's dirt cheap to produce with very little investment required by disc producers, it is reasonably robust and even a single layer disc has more than enough disc space for a top-notch MPEG4/WMV High Def movie with extensive extras. The fact that combi discs (one layer DVD-Video and one layer HD DVD) could potentially mean mass market penetration of the format. I would humbly suggest it's has a guaranteed future, and a healthy one at that, in the pre-recorded market.

    BluRay on the other hand has a few hurdles to jump in order to match HD DVD in the playback scene - and these all generally relate to production costs. For one BluRay discs are fragile - they use either a caddy or a special coating to protect the discs. Either options increases the production costs as can be seen from current day DVD-RAM. A second reason is that disc producers will need to invest in modified production equipment - which again 'ups' the cost. Thirdly combi BluRay/DVDs (which have been developed by JVC) are simply not cheap to produce. And finally tri-wavelength lasers (BluRay, DVDR, CDR) are currently very expensive - not least because Panasonic, Sony, Philips etc have all worked alone to develop their own optical heads. By contrast the NEC-Toshiba variant is on the verge of mass production.

    I think BluRay will be great for Playstation 3 or even Disney. BluRay discs will be able to store both ROM and RW content hence making it ideal for games or interactive kids discs. But features like this will be of little interest for most movie studios which is why Paramount, Warner and Universal are backing HD DVD. BluRay will also be great as 'large capacity DVD-RAMs' both for high-def and standard def content.
     
  11. KraGorn

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    Hmmm, thanks for that, I hadn't appreciated the difference in targetting since most press releases and commentaries on said portray this as the next VHS vs. Betamax battle except this time related to pre-recorded material.
     
  12. Rob20

    Rob20
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    The Japanese movie companies seem to be getting behind Blu-Ray, combined with fact that the PS3 will featuere BR playback, (and considering Sony's stranglehold on the games market in Japan), that could make it difficult for HD-DVD to establish itself. Look at the impact the PS2 had on dvd sales in Japan circa 2000/2001. It seems as if Blu-Ray players that will play pre-recorded discs, (other than machines that will only record tv), will be released in Japan at a similar time to HD-DVD. Even if the XBox 2 does have HD-DVD playback it's unlikely the Japanese will buy it in favour of the PS3 or Rev.

    The States on the other hand will see HD launched late 2005, with the posibility of the XBox 2 having HD-DVD launched at the same time. Imagine of the XBox 2 were to be released for $300 with HD-DVD playback, (perhaps with an extra charge for a remote as is the case with the XBox and dvd playback!?). Would be very cheap way into HD-DVD viewing with the bonus of the latest games machine. The PS3 may well be out 6+ months later supporting a format that doesn't have the same software support/film studios backing it.
     
  13. Rasczak

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    Those owned by Sony anyway. As I mentioned in the 'other' BluRay/HD DVD thread there is an interesting article in the current Home Cinema Choice magazine. If you want High Def Garfield buy BluRay, if you want Lord Of The Rings, Matrix etc buy HD DVD....

    I strong believe it will be software that will decide the dominant format of the future. Especially now Samsung and Thompson have also put their weight behind HD DVD.
     
  14. Rob20

    Rob20
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    But if sufficient people buy Blu-Ray machines and PS3, demand for Blu-Ray discs may convince film studios currently with HD-DVD to release discs for both Blu-Ray also. However, companies Sony own would only do so if the Blu-Ray format dies like Betamax.
     
  15. Rasczak

    Rasczak
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    The same works both ways: MGM and Disney may well opt for HD DVD if BluRay fails to gain mainstream acceptance as a reliable pre-recorded format....

    I'm also not convinced PS3 will make that much of a difference. DVD gave new CD like properties to video. High Def content just looks better (albeit alot better). Will PS3 users really appreciate the difference? Kids: probably not? Adults: those that care will have 'proper' High Def players.

    As I said above I think the HD DVD/DVD combi disc is going to be significant. MPEG2 compression is sufficient now to get a standard 2hr movie in reasonable quality onto a single layer disc. Whilst MPEG4 compression is already at a stage where a high def movie will fit onto a dual layer DVD (8.5GB) - hence a single layer HD DVD (15GB) will be able to have not only have the high def video but also a lossless Dolby Digital and lossless DTS soundtrack with several GBs spare for extras. And all at a cost comparative to a current dual layer DVD.

    I guess we'll have to see...
     
  16. Rob20

    Rob20
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    Didn't Sony buy MGM last year though?

    As for PS3 having Blu-Ray, I was suggesting it's significance in Japan. Also, it's a misconception that Playstation is bought mainly by kids. Infact the demorgraphic of PS2 owners is mainly 18-30 year olds rather than 8-18. 18-30 year olds have the disposable income to buy games that kids don't. When I was a kid I'd have to save for months to afford new games, or wait for b/day/xmas. Now I can have a game whenever I want. Have bought 35+ in the last 2 1/2 years.

    The point is that the PS3 would sell with or without BR. I'm not suggesting that people will buy a PS3 for BR playback necessarily, but people who are interested in movies and games will recognise that £300 for the latest games hardware and BR playback is a bargain. You could see BR playback as a bonus feature for some. Especially when there are 2 formats, and standalone players will be double if not treble the price of the PS3. Perhaps people will not want to commit to either format in case it fails. At least if BR fails you have a PS3. It worked for the dvd format, and Sony is onbviously hoping it will for Blu-Ray. Otherewise they'd stick with a far cheaper dvd drive.
     
  17. Rasczak

    Rasczak
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    Yes - but what I'm saying is that several studios (such as Warner) have the same vested (financial) interest in the success of HD DVD as Disney and Sony owned MGM have in BluRay.

    I agree entirely - but is this the same market that is going to invest in High Def? - at least initially - given the high cost of high def panels? I would suggest such users probably fall into the 25+ age bracket, i.e middle managers. Surely we can expect High Def to start as a niche market rather than a mass takeover?
     
  18. Rob20

    Rob20
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    By the time Blu-Ray/PS3 is released you'll easily be able to buy an hdmi hi-def set, (720p/1080i) for around £1,000. Though perhaps only 32", 37" max, but good enough. Easily within reach of most people working full time I would suggest. Maybe not late teens, but early 20's sure. Especially as young people are liable to take out loans or take advantage of interest free options abvaialable.
     

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