Should the EU send more vaccines to the UK ?

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acatweasel

Distinguished Member
whether its the North Atlantic Treaty or the Brexit withdrawal agreement, don't you think treaties should be respected?




I think it's not so bad actually, or it could have been so much worse :confused:.

Before the pandemics the EU had zero budget, zero competence in buying medicine, so it started from scratch a few months ago. We have succeed in buying millions of doses together instead of bidding one against another.

And in a few months, the EU will end up producing between 2 and 3 billions doses/year, which will come in handy with variants.


I'd rather say the British vaccine vaccine development (special mention to Oxford University), the readiness to pay the highest price and then, the NHS rollout were absolutely brilliant

and the British population is very pro-vaccine : a huge plus too



.. now without the UE plants manufacturing the bulk of the vaccines and sharing them, I'm not sure the UK would be be now : the US will not lift a finger for you and India has requisitioned its production.

You'd ask China or Russia?
1. Yes. So what?
2. Zero budget? So did Britain, so what?
3. Astra Zeneca as no profit? Well done France in ensuring they will never do that again.

Sanofi and the Pasteur institute did so well did they not?

Aghh, and I voted to stay in the union. Next time my thoughts will be different. Are you sure you are not a Brit trying to promote the Brexit agenda?
 

The Exiled Dub

Active Member
The EU commission has failed to protect EU citizens. Vaccine rates are ridiculously low.
Vaccine rates are not low in Ireland. As soon as the HSE gets the vaccines, they are being administered and the take up is very high. The problem that Ireland has is the actual supply of vaccines. Just not receiving enough and that is something that is out of the government's control.
 
Do you read? Your graph is "cases" as in diagnosed covid. Brazils death rate is 10x France. Twerp.
oops

you are welcome to post the right graph then, here is one
1617786082284.png


I see the Russian vaccines did not save Hungary
 
It’s nowt to do with respecting treaties. It’s about the EU being in the position of needing to invoke articles within said treaties because of desperate circumstances that could have been averted.
Have been averted? How?

Even the USA who poured incredible sums into operation Warp Speed and kept all their production to themselves are not in the situation the UK has achieved thanks to the production of EU plants.



I think you’re being quite generous. If the EU had started from scratch (a ”few months“ ago?) that might explain some things. It’s one thing to be unprepared. It’s quite another to not have a plan. Plans might be inadequate or inept but at least they’re a starting point. I hope the constituent member countries and their representatives are more intent on holding the Commission accountable than you seem to be.
I'm giving a positive spin to it, no doubt. And of course it was not good enough.

I think we need to set up the same agency as the USA (NIAID) at the European level.


It seems like you want credit for what you perceive to be the generosity of the EU. It has nowt to do with generosity. It’s geo-politics and economics.
indeed and in the future we might see the UE end up doing the same as the USA or the UK: keeping their production for themselves.

but I do not think this would be right, we are supposed to be the good guys and help the world.

I think we should be grateful first and foremost to the scientists and researchers that made each of these vaccines possible. There are many of them and they come from every corner of the globe. They deserve the lion’s share of the praise.
yeah, so you would credit the Franco-British Sanofi–GSK using the recombinant protein-based technology event though it failed last December?

I’m not ready to heap much praise onto any politicians or pharmasuits until things settle and we can look back with a broader context
sure

I still think it is interesting to factor in how the UK went from the worst pandemic situation to the best in a few week's time.
 
Vaccine rates are not low in Ireland. As soon as the HSE gets the vaccines, they are being administered and the take up is very high. The problem that Ireland has is the actual supply of vaccines. Just not receiving enough and that is something that is out of the government's control.
we have a tracker for vaccine deliveries/use do you have one in Ireland?
1617787725715.png



 

Judge Mental

Well-known Member
Have been averted? How?

Even the USA who poured incredible sums into operation Warp Speed and kept all their production to themselves are not in the situation the UK has achieved thanks to the production of EU plants.




I'm giving a positive spin to it, no doubt. And of course it was not good enough.

I think we need to set up the same agency as the USA (NIAID) at the European level.



indeed and in the future we might see the UE end up doing the same as the USA or the UK: keeping their production for themselves.

but I do not think this would be right, we are supposed to be the good guys and help the world.


yeah, so you would credit the Franco-British Sanofi–GSK using the recombinant protein-based technology event though it failed last December?


sure

I still think it is interesting to factor in how the UK went from the worst pandemic situation to the best in a few week's time.
The EU can’t take any credit for EU plants. That’s just a matter of geography.
 

Watcher No1

Active Member
Re: The US - this is a holdover from the Trump Administration - the contracts are written in such a way that the USA (via government) cannot give away the doses. The doses that were supplied to Canada and Mxico were 'loaned', as, as far as I know, that can't be done elsewhere.

The EU (and various member states and leaders) have handled the whole vaccination roll out awfully
 

scarty16

Well-known Member
This is like when the EU claimed to have won the olympics by combining all the countries medals together.

 

BorkenArrow

Member
I think it can
Not the Halix one, Dutch Gov were asked to contribute, they refused, EU were asked for funds, they refused. UK gov went in and paid for all the infrastructure to be installed out of British taxpayers money and sent the Vaccine task force in to help start manufacturing.

Then the EU stepped in and stole all the vaccines, stole British taxpayers money, without lifting a finger to help at all.

They come across as just a bunch of thieves, no integrity, you can't do business with people like that.
 
D

Deleted member 897717

Guest
I'd like to thank the EU for:

champagne
brioche
The Tour de France
Gerard Depardieu
Renoir
camembert (the cheese not Citizen Camembert)
Braque
Proust
brie
Zola
Debussy
Jean-Paul Belmondo
brioche
Berlioz
caniches
Gauloises
Chanel
 
Not the Halix one, Dutch Gov were asked to contribute, they refused, EU were asked for funds, they refused. UK gov went in and paid for all the infrastructure to be installed out of British taxpayers money and sent the Vaccine task force in to help start manufacturing.

Then the EU stepped in and stole all the vaccines, stole British taxpayers money, without lifting a finger to help at all.

They come across as just a bunch of thieves, no integrity, you can't do business with people like that.
I do not know this issue, perhaps you can point us to some references, I found this one:


now, my general feeling on this is like the Valvena startup, the Brits arrive in the end at the last stage of a process which turns out to be successful after years of work and investment.

They come with venture capital and big money and think they are entitled to own the plant, the production, whatever...


It doesn't work like that, sometimes sovereignty trumps capitalism

But it's not really a UE-UK issue, in the present situation, try doing this in other sovereign countries: China, India, the USA or Russia ... it won't work either.
 

DJDave87

Active Member
If the EU didnt export any vaccines at all, how would their vaccine roll out be looking? From a UK perspective, its hard to think if the UK didnt have any vaccines from the EU that the EU would be in any better of a position. If you give all of the UK vaccines to the EU, that 30 million disappears pretty quickly among the EU whilst having the tiniest of impacts. And that assumes all our vaccines are given to the EU.

How exactly are the vaccines being counted? Ie if america is sending over raw ingredients to the EU, they make it and then send it back, is that US made or EU made? Or does it count where its bottled or something? Likewise with it being an oxford led research team that developed the 'british' vaccine, which i think is being made in parts of the EU and used and adminsitered in parts of the EU without the UK government being dicks about it, can we call any oxford/az vaccine UK made?

Does pricing come in to this at all? If the EU are paying cheap cheap prices and the UK are paying more does it make a difference? If its going to result in us all coming out of this vaccinated and having spent the exact same amount of money and any long terms benefits being equitable its hard not to think there should be any issues.
 

scarty16

Well-known Member
I'd like to thank the EU for:



 
This?

Yes that's the (sad) Valvena story

The UK didn't create and fund this Franco-Austrian startup. As the article says, the UK "snatched" the end result and funded the last research phase. As I said, the Brits have a big checkbook, and once the see a profitable startup... the USA tried to do the same with CureVac.


Another thing of note is that, the end-product Valvena bottling plant is located in Scotland.

Given "Global Britain" exports zero vaccines, it is unlikely a single jab from this plant would go to the EU before the UK has been fully served anyway.


The only chance to modify the situation would be for Scotland to rejoin the European Union, and it will absolutely not happen before Valvena production starts.
 

Steven

Senior Moderator
I think it's not so bad actually, or it could have been so much worse :confused:.

Before the pandemics the EU had zero budget, zero competence in buying medicine, so it started from scratch a few months ago. We have succeed in buying millions of doses together instead of bidding one against another.

This statement is only accurate if the reader overlooks the individual decisions that taken together means today the EU vaccination numbers are behind the USA and UK.

The EU took over the procurement efforts of individual countries (Germany, France, Netherlands, Italy).

The EU insisted on greater manufacturer responsibility and lower prices in the contracts, which is understandable, but this came at the expense of speed

It was also the case all 27 nations had to agree to the contracts before the first August 2020 agreement was entered.

The EU also backed the wrong horse assuming Sanofi would come through
 

raduv1

Distinguished Member
Yes that's the (sad) Valvena story

The UK didn't create and fund this Franco-Austrian startup. As the article says, the UK "snatched" the end result and funded the last research phase. As I said, the Brits have a big checkbook, and once the see a profitable startup... the USA tried to do the same with CureVac.


Another thing of note is that, the end-product Valvena bottling plant is located in Scotland.

Given "Global Britain" exports zero vaccines, it is unlikely a single jab from this plant would go to the EU before the UK has been fully served anyway.


The only chance to modify the situation would be for Scotland to rejoin the European Union, and it will absolutely not happen before Valvena production starts.

The article says the French government refused to fully fund it . It also goes on to state that many governments were approached at the launch of the project and the UK was the fastest to respond .

Your post says the exact opposite in what the article itself is stating
 

raduv1

Distinguished Member
The article says the French government refused to fully fund it . It also goes on to state that many governments were approached at the launch of the project and the UK was the fastest to respond .

Your post says the exact opposite in what the article itself is stating
Well just read my post again ...
 
This statement is only accurate if the reader overlooks the individual decisions that taken together means today the EU vaccination numbers are behind the USA and UK.

The EU took over the procurement efforts of individual countries (Germany, France, Netherlands, Italy).

The EU insisted on greater manufacturer responsibility and lower prices in the contracts, which is understandable, but this came at the expense of speed

It was also the case all 27 nations had to agree to the contracts before the first August 2020 agreement was entered.

The EU also backed the wrong horse assuming Sanofi would come through
I think that's pretty much it, though I'm not sure the Sanofi would have really changed the situation.

The most important thing I think is the European Union has a 447.7 million population. The USA has 328 millions, has spend an incredible amount of money and still they have 32% of their population vaccinated while the UK has 47%.

Not only there are a lot of jabs to produce, but "Global EU" exported 77 millions jabs instead of just keeping it all.



For the "lockdown was enough" UK, we could just remove the jabs delivered by EU plants and redo the maths.
 

raduv1

Distinguished Member
You are suggesting the UK should just have stayed in lockdown instead of using the jabs sourced in Europe?

Jabs sourced from a company under contract with the UK , not the UKs fault the EU is piss poor and tied its own hands on lawsuits if that company failed to deliver upon that contract agreement.

That is down to the EU and EU only , tis a bugger that pissy lil Island managed to secure a better contract than the might of the Bloc innit . This is the meat of the whole matter here said and done .
 
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scrowe

Distinguished Member
There’s a lot of Pro EU statements and justifications from the OP around this subject. If we accept as fact the EU is undeniably all-knowing and all-seeing, on behalf of its members and everyone outside the EU has been reliant or would be so much worse off without this EU that is made to sound like a worldwide charity and humanitarian organisation, and we accept all this.

The single question still remains.

Why has their management of vaccine development, testing, manufacturing, supply and distribution been so sh*t. Especially given no-one outside of the EU could have done any of theirs without the EU in the first place.

Its all the UKs fault apparently. We either stole the recipe we used to make our dish from the EU, or swooped in like vultures to pig out on a fat meal painstakingly prepared by the EU, or treacherously paid to plant,water, and grow the vegetables in the neighbours garden, and then had the nerve to receive some of the vegetables in return, and whilst trying to feed our own household, from our own garden, with a bit of extra from theirs, then being asked to leave ourselves hungry and donate meals back to the neighbour, so they can tell their own household they don’t taste that nice, so don’t eat them, and just put them in the freezer just in case we might want to eat them later.
 
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