Should the EU send more vaccines to the UK ?

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Considering the UK is out "of the woods" at the moment mainly thanks to vaccines produced in the EU, do you think the EU should accept the private "UK served first" contracts and export vaccines right now?
....or is the EU right to ask for reciprocity and serve first countries that are critically affected at the moment?


This is originally a post from the brexit benefits thread which was a bit out-of-topic, I'll try do edit the original post and transfer here what should be transferred
______________


Vaccine-wise, things are getting better fast as production ramps up, tomorrow a Sanofi plant in France will start to make Pfizer jabs

I do not know whether is allowed to post information in other language than English here, tell me

Vaccins anti-Covid : Boris Johnson piégé par le « made in Europa »
Thierry Breton mène au pas de charge la contre-offensive diplomatique face aux Britanniques, désormais dépendants de l'UE pour la deuxième dose des vaccins.


Nevertheless a summary
  • since the EU has put in place the reciprocity principle in vaccine exports the Brits are suddenly getting more collaborative
  • no more "demands" they want a "mutually beneficial" relation
  • 2/3 of the vaccines injected in the UK, are made in the EU : the USA sent nothing, India sends nothing anymore
  • the UK has 2 production plants, they produce only the AstraZeneca and one factory is far from operational (?)
  • "the brits should not worry, they will have their second AZ dose as soon as AZ has fulfilled its contractual obligations vis-à-vis Europe"

the article describes the situation in
  • Hungary : the Russians delivered 40 000 Sputnik, while 11 millions doses will be delivered by the EU
  • Austria and Danemark want to cooperate with Israel, but 100 % of the BioNTech-Pfizer jabs in Israël are made in Europe

overall
  • Europe is the first vaccine manufacturer in the world with 190 millions jabs, ahead of the US
  • the US keep all its production, while the EU make 100% of the vaccines used in Canada, Israel, Saudi Arabia
  • there are 53 production sites in the EU
1617706036947.png


 

IronGiant

Moderator
I do not know whether is allowed to post information in other language than English here, tell me
So long as you post in English and give a summary of any links you post that are in French, as you have done, that should be fine :thumbsup:
 

Steven

Senior Moderator
Considering the UK is out "of the woods" at the moment mainly thanks to vaccines produced in the EU

I suspect most people on AVF will ask "does it matter when EU nations are not using the vaccines they do have",

Do you have a source for this assertion that is not behind a pay wall to support the majority of vaccine doses in the UK are non UK produced? I was not aware the UK government divides the vaccine figures into the factory of origin. The EU alleged last month 10 million vaccines sent to the UK when we know there were 30 million vaccine doses given in the UK in March 2021

 

Judge Mental

Well-known Member
As has been pointed out many times the ‘EU’ doesn’t produce vaccines. Private sector compaInes which happen to be geographically located in a sovereign nation which also happens to a member of the EU produce vaccines. As such they should attempt to fulfill the contracts they have entered into with their customers.
 

raduv1

Distinguished Member
As has been pointed out many times the ‘EU’ doesn’t produce vaccines. Private sector compaInes which happen to be geographically located in a sovereign nation which also happens to a member of the EU produce vaccines. As such they should attempt to fulfill the contracts they have entered into with their customers.
Yes I've never understood the whole EU has exported x amount of vaccines. AZ and Pfizer has exported based upon the contractual agreements made between them. It's plainly obvious that the attempts to discredit the OAZ vaccine is because they can not go after them on a contractual basis. The next step was to use UK as a scapegoat as an easy target having just recently left the EU.

Just quite sad that all the Bloc has achieved with this is to put doubt into the publics minds on what is an effective vaccine .
 
Do you have a source for this assertion that is not behind a pay wall to support the majority of vaccine doses in the UK are non UK produced?
I really think it's common knowledge but you can look it up.

First I think we agree on the 20 millions Pfizer + 1 million AZ sent? These were Ursula VdL's figures at the EU vaccine summit last week and I do not think they were challenged?

Starting from this, there are sources galore on the total Vaccination rollout
1617726724785.png



of course you are completely welcome to discuss the figures, but given the UK has two bottling plants for AZ, I guess it will turn out as pretty straightforward. The main challenge on this reasoning should come not from the final bottling data, but from the supply chain (polar lipids from the UK).


Back on topic = the sourcing of the Uk jabs, I guess the other imported doses came from India, since the USA exports zero and is sitting on its home-produced 30 millions + doses of AstraZeneca.

On the future of the UK rollout, i have this:
1617726597381.png




source England’s Covid vaccine programme could slow sharply, Sage warns
 
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raduv1

Distinguished Member
Why anyone would want to use a " quasi ineffective " vaccine is beyond me .
 
Yes I've never understood the whole EU has exported x amount of vaccines. AZ and Pfizer has exported
Right all these vaccines are first and foremost the private property of big pharma companies


What is happening there is simply article 122 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. Whether or not it is a private company does not matter, we are into the politics of "exceptional occurrences". And this is 100% legal.
the Commission, may decide, in a spirit of solidarity between Member States, upon the measures appropriate to the economic situation, in particular if severe difficulties arise in the supply of certain products

I believe the UK did just that with PPE a few months ago: all countries have a law giving the power to requisition certain resources from private companies, in times of need.


btw : India will not be delivering vaccines orders to the UK either and the UK didn't object one second.
 
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raduv1

Distinguished Member
Right all these vaccines are first and foremost the private property of big pharma companies


What is happening there is simply article 122 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. Whether or not it is a private company does not matter, we are into the politics of "exceptional occurrences". And this is 100% legal.


I believe the UK did just that with PPE a few months ago: all countries have a law giving the power to requisition certain resources from private companies, in times of need.


btw : India will not be delivering vaccines orders to the UK either and the UK didn't object one second.
I believe the EU drew first blood by threatening to enact article 16 when they realised they could not resolve it under contractual law with AZ .

The UK government ( for a change ) has remained quite passive in its response to EU threats and intimidation.
 

raduv1

Distinguished Member
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So @Hi from France why would the EU now block vaccine to Australia when Australia are actually behind the EU in vaccine roll out ?

How many Covid-19 deaths per day in Australia?
 

raduv1

Distinguished Member
How many Covid-19 deaths per day in Australia?
That was not the original point you were making in the OP , or is it a EU only Brit bashing thread ?
 
The UK government ( for a change ) has remained quite passive in its response
Indeed and that's a first.

The better thing would be for the UK Brexiteer government to acknowledge they have been saved by European vaccine facilities, even though they dislike the European Union.

.. At a time when the "special relationship" USA prefers to store 30 millions unused jabs and give them zilch.

What do you say about the USA?


to EU threats and intimidation.
There's no threat, it's acting according to common sense I'd say.

We have more than a thousand people dying every day, vaccines should be used where they are most needed.



Actually I think they UK lost an opportunity to volunteer, they could have said "OK we have controlled the pandemic on our soil for the time being, now we will help".
 

raduv1

Distinguished Member
Strictly speaking I believe it is not "the EU" which made the decision but Italy.


Now, personally I agree with the vaccines sent where they are most needed, not Australia at the moment.

Not this time .

I can see as it may be confusing as Italy did not even know where 30 million stored vaccines were going so kept them in storage just in case some were going to the UK.

How bloody sad is that...
 

BorkenArrow

Well-known Member
Indeed and that's a first.

The better thing would be for the UK Brexiteer government to acknowledge they have been saved by European vaccine facilities, even though they dislike the European Union.

.. At a time when the "special relationship" USA prefers to store 30 millions unused jabs and give them zilch.

What do you say about the USA?



There's no threat, it's acting according to common sense I'd say.

We have more than a thousand people dying every day, vaccines should be used where they are most needed.
Brazil has 4000 people a day dying, if the truth told everybody should be sending their vaccines there.
 

raduv1

Distinguished Member
you'd have too look at the rate
View attachment 1490070

so apparently Brazil has less death per million than France at the moment



the worst-hit countries seem to be in central Europe
View attachment 1490073

Well Brazil under Bolsonaro has the worst president and therefore goverment in charge to deal with this pandemic . Guess the Bloc also needs a change in management.
 

LowQuay

Standard Member
The reason the EU is now in the position of considering bans and the invocation of treaty articles in the first place is because of the incompetence of the EU Commision. That is the origin of this entire debacle. The UK gov’t can be blamed for many things. The vaccine rollout shambles across the Channel isn’t one of them. So this “collaborate or else” belligerent attitude is misplaced.
 
The reason the EU is now in the position of considering bans and the invocation of treaty articles in the first place
whether its the North Atlantic Treaty or the Brexit withdrawal agreement, don't you think treaties should be respected?


is because of the incompetence of the EU Commission.

I think it's not so bad actually, or it could have been so much worse :confused:.

Before the pandemics the EU had zero budget, zero competence in buying medicine, so it started from scratch a few months ago. We have succeed in buying millions of doses together instead of bidding one against another.

And in a few months, the EU will end up producing between 2 and 3 billions doses/year, which will come in handy with variants.


I'd rather say the British vaccine vaccine development (special mention to Oxford University), the readiness to pay the highest price and then, the NHS rollout were absolutely brilliant

and the British population is very pro-vaccine : a huge plus too



.. now without the UE plants manufacturing the bulk of the vaccines and sharing them, I'm not sure where the UK would would be now : the US will not lift a finger for you and India has requisitioned its production.

You'd ask China or Russia?
 
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acatweasel

Distinguished Member

LowQuay

Standard Member
whether its the North Atlantic Treaty or the Brexit withdrawal agreement, don't you think treaties should be respected?
It’s nowt to do with respecting treaties. It’s about the EU being in the position of needing to invoke articles within said treaties because of desperate circumstances that could have been averted.

I think it's not so bad actually, or it could have been so much worse :confused:.

Before the pandemics the EU had zero budget, zero competence in buying medicine, so it started from scratch a few months ago. We have succeed in buying millions of doses together instead of bidding one against another.

And in a few months, the EU will end up producing between 2 and 3 billions doses/year, which will come in handy with variants.

I think you’re being quite generous. If the EU had started from scratch (a ”few months“ ago?) that might explain some things. It’s one thing to be unprepared. It’s quite another to not have a plan. Plans might be inadequate or inept but at least they’re a starting point. I hope the constituent member countries and their representatives are more intent on holding the Commission accountable than you seem to be.


I'd rather say the British vaccine vaccine development (special mention to Oxford University), the readiness to pay the highest price and then, the NHS rollout were absolutely brilliant

and the British population is very pro-vaccine : a huge plus too



.. now without the UE plants manufacturing the bulk of the vaccines and sharing them, I'm not sure the UK would be be now : the US will not lift a finger for you and India has requisitioned its production.

You'd ask China or Russia?

It seems like you want credit for what you perceive to be the generosity of the EU. It has nowt to do with generosity. It’s geo-politics and economics. I think we should be grateful first and foremost to the scientists and researchers that made each of these vaccines possible. There are many of them and they come from every corner of the globe. They deserve the lion’s share of the praise. I’m not ready to heap much praise onto any politicians or pharmasuits until things settle and we can look back with a broader context. I think the ineptitude of some can sometimes be flattering to others who in any other circumstance might be viewed as merely possessing an adequate level of competence.
 

acatweasel

Distinguished Member
whether its the North Atlantic Treaty or the Brexit withdrawal agreement, don't you think treaties should be respected?




I think it's not so bad actually, or it could have been so much worse :confused:.

Before the pandemics the EU had zero budget, zero competence in buying medicine, so it started from scratch a few months ago. We have succeed in buying millions of doses together instead of bidding one against another.

And in a few months, the EU will end up producing between 2 and 3 billions doses/year, which will come in handy with variants.


I'd rather say the British vaccine vaccine development (special mention to Oxford University), the readiness to pay the highest price and then, the NHS rollout were absolutely brilliant

and the British population is very pro-vaccine : a huge plus too



.. now without the UE plants manufacturing the bulk of the vaccines and sharing them, I'm not sure the UK would be be now : the US will not lift a finger for you and India has requisitioned its production.

You'd ask China or Russia?
The EU commission has failed to protect EU citizens. Vaccine rates are ridiculously low.
 

acatweasel

Distinguished Member
whether its the North Atlantic Treaty or the Brexit withdrawal agreement, don't you think treaties should be respected?




I think it's not so bad actually, or it could have been so much worse :confused:.

Before the pandemics the EU had zero budget, zero competence in buying medicine, so it started from scratch a few months ago. We have succeed in buying millions of doses together instead of bidding one against another.

And in a few months, the EU will end up producing between 2 and 3 billions doses/year, which will come in handy with variants.


I'd rather say the British vaccine vaccine development (special mention to Oxford University), the readiness to pay the highest price and then, the NHS rollout were absolutely brilliant

and the British population is very pro-vaccine : a huge plus too



.. now without the UE plants manufacturing the bulk of the vaccines and sharing them, I'm not sure the UK would be be now : the US will not lift a finger for you and India has requisitioned its production.

You'd ask China or Russia?
Aren't the EU asking Russia?
 

acatweasel

Distinguished Member
Strictly speaking I believe it is not "the EU" which made the decision but Italy.


Now, personally I agree with the vaccines sent where they are most needed, not Australia at the moment.
Excuses, excuses. So it's OK to be EU, but excuse because you can revert to national? Make your mind up.
 
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