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Should my Plasma be doing this?!

Jaymo

Standard Member
Hi,

After issues with LCD tv's, I made the switch to Plasma. Everything was fine (bar a few phosphor trails on certain things) and then I started getting some Xbox 360 time in.

Been playing RDR recently and have now noticed that whenever I pan the camera around, the background, erm...ghosts? Best way to describe it is the picture can't keep up when I pan around. It almost looks like I'm looking at a 3D picture without 3D glasses on. Everything goes blurry.

If I pan slowly, it's fine. As soon as I pan quickly, it becomes an issue, so it's a nightmare in FPS games at the moment. Was playing Mass Effect 2 last night and with a couple of characters on the screen, when I was panning the camera, it looked as if the characters had doubled up.

I can try and film it if people don't know what I'm talking about, lol.
 

Kev12

Prominent Member
Have you tried turning off all the image processing that you can, eg noise reduction, light sensor etc?
Is there a dedicated Game mode to optimise the screen for Xbox?
 

paulr2006

Distinguished Member
Hi,

After issues with LCD tv's, I made the switch to Plasma. Everything was fine (bar a few phosphor trails on certain things) and then I started getting some Xbox 360 time in.

Been playing RDR recently and have now noticed that whenever I pan the camera around, the background, erm...ghosts? Best way to describe it is the picture can't keep up when I pan around. It almost looks like I'm looking at a 3D picture without 3D glasses on. Everything goes blurry.

If I pan slowly, it's fine. As soon as I pan quickly, it becomes an issue, so it's a nightmare in FPS games at the moment. Was playing Mass Effect 2 last night and with a couple of characters on the screen, when I was panning the camera, it looked as if the characters had doubled up.

I can try and film it if people don't know what I'm talking about, lol.

You are describing what sounds like Phosphor trails :) something all plasmas do to some extent, it's to do with the time it takes between ignition & decay of the the plasma gas I'm afraid.
 

Jaymo

Standard Member
Yep, DNR etc is turned off, Game Mode is on etc.

I've tried all different screen settings, different contrast, brightness, colour levels etc still get the same issue.

It was really bad on Mass Effect 2 last night. I had 2 team members stood in front of me and panned around, like I said they literally doubled up :(.

Only the TV a couple of weeks ago. Not sure if Comet will exchange without the box?

Have had nothing but issues with bloody HDTV's! Starting to lose the faith, lol.
 

paulr2006

Distinguished Member
What TV is it out of interest?
 

Siochain

Established Member
Buy PANASONIC TX-P50U20B | 50" plasma tv - Television | Comet

Really don't know what to do. If it's going to be permanently like this, I'm not sure if I can put up with it tbh :(

Should it be as bad as I'm describing though? I mean, it's REALLY noticable.

I take it it differs from TV to TV?
Hey Jaymo
You're describing low motion gaming ,games that run at 30fps will cause what you're seeing (double imaging). If you have any Games that run at 60fps try these and you should find motion clarity to be excellent in comparison to what you're seeing at present with the likes of red dead. If you're unsure waht titles are 60p give me a list of some games you own and I may know which are 60p. e.g Fifa 9,10. Call of duty modern warfare 1 or 2..... Very few Plasma owners see or are bothered by this. I am and unfortunately it sounds like you are affected also.

Have a look at a post I put up awhile ago and subsequent posts by Hodg100 and BYF. FPS games at 30p are unbearable for myself aswell

http://www.avforums.com/forums/12232946-post99.html
http://www.avforums.com/forums/12233626-post104.html
http://www.avforums.com/forums/12235657-post109.html
 

mrsmr2

Established Member
You might be explaining the same thing I'm seeing. Have a look at my recent posts.

Are you seeing a blurring of the background or are you seeing colour loss (and blurring)?

Straight forward blurring is due to 30fps and you will get this on CRTs as well. A 60fps game will improve this massively.

However, the fact you mention the 3d effect makes me think you are seeing the same as me. Loss of colour on panning making it look like the old 3d technique. I described it like that (and also like Chromatic Abberation). I tried Bayonnetta on the 360 (a colourful 60fps 3rd person game) and camera panning made it look washed out.

@siochain.. Are you sure COD2 runs at 60fps? I saw it at a mates a few months ago and I would put money on it being 30fps. I think it was on the 360, but it could have been PS3, can't remember.
 

hodg100

Distinguished Member
@siochain.. Are you sure COD2 runs at 60fps? I saw it at a mates a few months ago and I would put money on it being 30fps. I think it was on the 360, but it could have been PS3, can't remember.

Siochan meant MW 1&2, which are certainly 60, or close to, fps games. I'm not sure about COD2 but I think it was 30fps.
 

Siochain

Established Member
@siochan.. Are you sure COD2 runs at 60fps? I saw it at a mates a few months ago and I would put money on it being 30fps. I think it was on the 360, but it could have been PS3, can't remember.
Been awhile since I played COD2, or do you mean COD MW2. On ps3 CODMW2 struggles badly during intense scenes. The 360 less so and will average very close to 60fps. It won't drop in framerate to anywhere near 30p, Have a look at the Eurogamer modernwarfare 2 ps3 vs xbox360 faceoff.

Face-Off: Modern Warfare 2 - Page 3 | DigitalFoundry | Eurogamer.net
 

Fahrenheit451

Established Member
Yep, DNR etc is turned off, Game Mode is on etc.

Forget game mode on the panasonic unless you really must have the counter timer telling you how much you've played every 30 minutes. It won't make a difference with lag.

Intelligent frame creation is on by the sounds of things. Its not in the same menu as DNR so you might have missed it.
 

vader'smyfather

Standard Member
It could be the TV as others have said, and the situation you have seems very bad, however also remember that some games have intentional blurring of backgrounds as you turn to reinforce the idea of motion.

Red Dead Redemption, ME2, GOW2 all intentionally have this but there are games going back overa decade that have used this feature.
 
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mrsmr2

Established Member
Sorry, yes I meant MW2. Will read that comparison now.

Just looked at the frame rate graphs. There must be a lot of tearing going on as neither hit 60fps very often but are above 30fps.
 
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Siochain

Established Member
Sorry, yes I meant MW2. Will read that comparison now.

Just looked at the frame rate graphs. There must be a lot of tearing going on as neither hit 60fps very often but are above 30fps.
I'm more of a PC gamer so I don't worry about lack of V-Sync. I can apply it with practically any title on pc and with a competent GPU can easily maintain 60p. What you're describing with the blurring you're noticing is interesting mrsmr2. I wouldn't refer to 30p games as causing blurring on CRT & PDP. Look very closely and it is double imaging rather than actual blurring. Blurring is what I see on LCD. This is easier on the my eyes with 30p titles. What BYF posted was spot on in regards to phosphor trailing being far more evident on low motion content. Gaming at 30p is the only time I see trails on any PDP regardless of make or model.
 

Jaymo

Standard Member
Thanks for all the posts guys, I'll be sure to check out some of the threads mentioned later :thumbsup:.

I tried playing CoD4 and the double image issue isn't as bad (although it's still there), but panning around I can still see flashes of yellow and green in my peripheral every now and then.

As for intelligent frame creation, I don't think my TV supports it. I've been through most of the menus and not come across it. If my TV does support it, where would I find the option to turn it off?

Regarding the whole motion blur issue – I realise it's an effect used in some games, but it isn't just blur. When I played Mass Effect 2 last night, I had a party member stood in front of me. When I panned the camera around, there was literally another “ghost” image of the same character stood next to the main one. Not overlapping etc. It was literally as if there were 2 characters stood side by side. Looked like the picture can't keep up with the speed of the panning.

I dunno, maybe it's just me looking for stuff, but I can't ever remember seeing it like this on my LCD.
 
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paulr2006

Distinguished Member
Take a look here
 

Insanity202

Distinguished Member
Just looked at the Panny site. Try putting your tv in cinema mode to see if this helps. It doesnt have IFC but cinema mode is supposed to act like IFC if I'm reading things right from there site.
 

Siochain

Established Member
Jaymo
Have you got a PS3 & 3 wipeout HD. that's a purely 60p games that runs with a variable resolution. It's silky smooth. A console game made for plasma really and what a soundtrack. If you have it give it a go see what you think of motion :thumbsup:
 

mrsmr2

Established Member
@Siochain. I refer to it as blurring but it isn't the same as LCD blurring (which is ghastly). I think we are talking about the same thing. Effectively, it's one image being shown where 2 separate images should have been shown. On a CRT 60fps gives a pin sharp image (apart from really, really fast pans), whereas 30 fps doesn't so I call it blurred. Double image is probably a better term to distinguish it from LCD blur.

@Paulr. I don't get the residue patches of colour like that. More like the edges wash out with mine.

And yes, Wipeout looks spectacular on my mates G10. I'm going to have to try it on mine (pity there is no demo on PSN) and see if I get the colour issue. I suspect I will but due to the speed of Wipeout, it might be hard to spot.
 
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Jaymo

Standard Member
Paulr2006 – That’s it! That’s pretty much the exact issue I’m having. As mentioned by Siochain, 30fps games are even worse.

Inasnity202 – Thanks for the help, but I’ve tried this already. It appears to lessen the extent of the yellow/green in my peripheral, but the double image thing still happens :(.

Siochain, I have a PS3, but don’t have Wipeout HD. Pretty sure there’s a demo though iirc, so I’ll download it tonight :smashin:.
 

Siochain

Established Member
@Siochain. I refer to it as blurring but it isn't the same as LCD blurring (which is ghastly). I think we are talking about the same thing. Effectively, it's one image being shown where 2 separate images should have been shown. On a CRT 60fps gives a pin sharp image (apart from really, really fast pans), whereas 30 fps doesn't so I call it blurred. Double image is probably a better term to distinguish it from LCD blur.
Agreed :smashin:
 

Insanity202

Distinguished Member
I dont no if this will make any difference but the info I found on the panny site says its Full HD but 900 Lines Moving Picture Resolution, the G,V and VT are 1080 Lines Moving Picture Resolution.
Would that make a difference? :confused::confused:
 

mrsmr2

Established Member
1080 moving picture lines with IFC on, 900 with it off. I'm pretty sure the V and VT are the same.

IFC should be off. I think the Plasmas do plenty of picture processing as it is (which is normally bad for gaming) so a good rule is to turn off whatever you can, and turn things back on one at a time.
 

Insanity202

Distinguished Member
When I look at the specs for the VT/V/G20's it just says 1080 lines of motion, for the U it says 900. All are 600hrz subfiled drive screens, but the VT/V/G can turn this on via IFC the U20 is activated only when on cinema mode.
I do use IFC for some games but only when motion judder is bad. Otherwise its turned off :smashin:
Ive never seen anything like that that effect before and ive been playing PS1/PS2/PS3/Xbox 360 and wii games on my G20. :confused:
Its stange. And for someone to be able to video it means it not like a 'flicker' issue where some see it some dont. All very strange.
 

mrsmr2

Established Member
Sorry, I forgot we were talking about the U. I haven't seen the specs on that, and was just talking about G, V, and VT.

I don't think it impacts things much as long as all processing is turned off to start with.

EDIT: the other thing to remember is that that video clip is what that camera sees, not necessarily the same as what our eyes see.
 

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