Should my first dedicated subwoofer be a BK electronics Monolith subwoofer?

oroarke

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Hi Guys,
I have recently got into home cinema in a fairly substantial way and have one major piece of the system still to purchase namely a subwoofer. My living room is square 6m x 6m with a fairly low ceiling, tv, floor standers and centre speaker along one wall and hi fi rack incorporating AVR and bluray player on an adjacent wall. There is perhaps room for a subwoofer to be positioned on the tv wall but it would be restricted to about 400mm deep. Alternatively I have been given permission to buy a BK Monolith but it would have to go at the back of the room and in a corner.

The subwoofer would primarily be used for cinema but i would probably also wire it back to my analogue integrated amp just for a bit of fun. My question is would the subwoofer perform reasonably well in a corner as due to its size I would not be allowed to move it to another position in the room. I have read recently about the subwoofer crawl and wondered if I could use my wireless kitchen speaker which has a 6" subwoofer built in to get a good idea about bass response from the proposed corner.

Many thanks for constructive replies.
 
You could try but I don't think crawl would be too meaningful if not misleading in this situation.
 
Monolith plus will be fine but go for plus if you can. I person prefer sealed box subs.


The bk subs offer good vfm and British made however they do seem to suffer from buzzing/humming amplifiers/crossover dial, which is a shame....
 
Hi Guys,
I have recently got into home cinema in a fairly substantial way and have one major piece of the system still to purchase namely a subwoofer. My living room is square 6m x 6m with a fairly low ceiling, tv, floor standers and centre speaker along one wall and hi fi rack incorporating AVR and bluray player on an adjacent wall. There is perhaps room for a subwoofer to be positioned on the tv wall but it would be restricted to about 400mm deep. Alternatively I have been given permission to buy a BK Monolith but it would have to go at the back of the room and in a corner.

The subwoofer would primarily be used for cinema but i would probably also wire it back to my analogue integrated amp just for a bit of fun. My question is would the subwoofer perform reasonably well in a corner as due to its size I would not be allowed to move it to another position in the room. I have read recently about the subwoofer crawl and wondered if I could use my wireless kitchen speaker which has a 6" subwoofer built in to get a good idea about bass response from the proposed corner.

Many thanks for constructive replies.

If you ask nicely @Conrad. might be able to check the room response with REWs room simulator program. Post the ceiling height, where is your MLP in the room (head), distance from rear wall to where you sit and width wise where is that spot exactly. You can do quick sketch of the room and post it. Where the speakers are also (distance to side walls).

Which av-receiver you have? Can you go dual subwoofers (smaller perhaps) placed example front and rear wall (opposite), which ever works best in your room (REW) or one big and that´s it?
 
The bk subs offer good vfm and British made however they do seem to suffer from buzzing/humming amplifiers/crossover dial, which is a shame....

Can you stop spreading this like it's a common issue? BK sell thousands of subs a year and we've heard of how many issues, 5, maybe?

Square room is bad for bass

Another helpful reply. What's he supposed to do, move an internal wall?

If you ask nicely @Conrad. might be able to check the room response with REWs room simulator program. Post the ceiling height, where is your MLP in the room (head), distance from rear wall to where you sit and width wise where is that spot exactly. You can do quick sketch of the room and post it. Where the speakers are also (distance to side walls).

Happy to.
@Gasp3621 is on the money. If you can do a sketch of the room showing dimensions and your seating position with a distance to at least two walls from where your head is, along with any positions the sub can go in, I'll have a look for you.

Literally something like this is good enough.
image.jpg
 
Can you stop spreading this like it's a common issue? BK sell thousands of subs a year and we've heard of how many issues, 5, maybe?



Another helpful reply. What's he supposed to do, move an internal wall?



Happy to.
@Gasp3621 is on the money. If you can do a sketch of the room showing dimensions and your seating position with a distance to at least two walls from where your head is, along with any positions the sub can go in, I'll have a look for you.

Literally something like this is good enough.
View attachment 1369765

Issue with bk subs have been reoccurring since I've been into audio gear.

I've yet to hear the same reoccurring issues with other brands...well maybe Kef paw with blowing up amps.

It's enough to put me off bk subs. Until they shift over to higher quality amplifiers, or class d .
 
Hi Guys,
Thanks for your replies, I have uploaded a brief sketch of the room and possible sub positions, very kind offer by Conrad and initially Gasp to check room response and will be very interested in the results.
Looks as though the alternative sub crawl is out.

I have been looking at a number of subwoofers including SVS, Bowers and Wilkins, XTZ just to name a few. I was initially put off BK as their website does not look as professional as some of the others.
After reading posts from a number of owners and seeing videos on youtube I have more confidence to place an order and will initially speak to BK regarding any humming issues and port noises.

As I said earlier this will probably be used exclusively for cinema sound as I am quite happy with the bass response from my Proac DT8 floorstanders for music.

IMG_20200922_124944267.jpg
 
Hi Guys,
Thanks for your replies, I have uploaded a brief sketch of the room and possible sub positions, very kind offer by Conrad and initially Gasp to check room response and will be very interested in the results.
Looks as though the alternative sub crawl is out.

I have been looking at a number of subwoofers including SVS, Bowers and Wilkins, XTZ just to name a few. I was initially put off BK as their website does not look as professional as some of the others.
After reading posts from a number of owners and seeing videos on youtube I have more confidence to place an order and will initially speak to BK regarding any humming issues and port noises.

As I said earlier this will probably be used exclusively for cinema sound as I am quite happy with the bass response from my Proac DT8 floorstanders for music.

View attachment 1370065

You're probably looking at dual monolith pluses.

Make sure you have a sub sonic filter that'll help with ported subs and port chuffing and attempting to play lower than native port tune.
 
I'm afraid the 2 subwoofer route has been ruled out by the boss as one box too many!

Are there any owners who would know the difference between The standard monolith and the plus apart from power output. I tend to listen with volume just over half way on my Arcam AVR20 so the standard monolith may be enough. I am just compiling some questions for BK before I proceed to order unless I am persuaded to look at an alternative.
 
If you decide on Monolith you should call to Colosussxb (BKE) as they have grade-b Mono Plusses almost same price as the regular Mono. New in mint shape with full warranty! There is now only one listed, but if you call them they usually "suddenly" get a finish / driver orientation you like.

 
-- As an eBay Associate, AVForums earns from qualifying purchases --
You're probably looking at dual monolith pluses.

Make sure you have a sub sonic filter that'll help with ported subs and port chuffing and attempting to play lower than native port tune.
I would assume the monolith has this already built into the amp no? Pretty silly if not.
 
I would assume the monolith has this already built into the amp no? Pretty silly if not.
Don't know if always have sub sonic filter ina sub. If you have antimode, this ehavr this feature.

My ported svs subs had sub sonic filter
 
Don't know if always have sub sonic filter ina sub. If you have antimode, this ehavr this feature.

My ported svs subs had sub sonic filter
Most ported subs will have a HPF built into the amp to protect the driver from unloading below tuning.
 
I was initially put off BK as their website does not look as professional as some of the others.
After reading posts from a number of owners and seeing videos on youtube I have more confidence to place an order and will initially speak to BK regarding any humming issues and port noises.

There is a dedicated thread for the Monolith. This is part 5 that runs to 91 pages and 1,259 messages that show how popular they are and there are another 4 parts preceding part 5. ;)
The bk monolith thread-part five
 
Tough call on placement. Front left looks good for extension, but there's a bit of a hole in the 50Hz range.

1600807545525.png


Rear right looks good through the midrange but the low end drops off (if the room is sealed, it's ok if it's not, which is surprising).
1600807730783.png


The other two places along the front wall get progressively worse in response as you move right.

In summary, each will give a decent response so you have options and they won't be terrible. Duals would be better but it almost always is, but you don't have the start there to get a decent response.
 

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Thanks Conrad for your time and effort to provide this report. I am not familiar with reading these room simulations so are you saying if I choose to place the subwoofer in the rear right with say the room door open I will get a better response below 30hz? Can you indicate what db it went down to at 20 hz.

I made a call to BK electronics today and Tom suggested that a better sub for me to use with this sized room would be a P12 300SB PR which has a very good review and may be more practical although which ever one I go for I think the wife wants it out of the way ie rear right!

Has anyone heard the P12 in comparison with the standard monolith?

Thanks again Conrad
 
I made a call to BK electronics today and Tom suggested that a better sub for me to use with this sized room would be a P12 300SB PR which has a very good review and may be more practical although which ever one I go for I think the wife wants it out of the way ie rear right!

Has anyone heard the P12 in comparison with the standard monolith?

Regarding the two models. One has 95litre cabinet and other one 50litre, one has large port and other has passive radiator acting as a port. Monolith has deeper extension and overall output advantage especially under 30hz so clearly if you want the better performing one then Mono Plus DF and there is high change you can get it for 510£ + 30£ shipping as new grade-b. 50kg and comes on pallet. Big boy! Notice DF = 420mm deep and you need to leave some space for cables.

But that low end drop off doesn´t look good either if room is sealed with sub at the back. Take it off (open room) and low end rises. Very strange indeed. o_O Wonder what the real life measurement would show.

Two smaller P12-PR placed front left and rear right would be spot on looking with REW, but i guess that is too much for wife even if she could pick the finish to suite room decor, some chocolate & roses and other bribing gifts. If there is one sub at the front visible the rear right is almost behind couch hidden. 😏
 
Monolith plus will be fine but go for plus if you can. I person prefer sealed box subs.


The bk subs offer good vfm and British made however they do seem to suffer from buzzing/humming amplifiers/crossover dial, which is a shame....
Thanks Conrad for your time and effort to provide this report. I am not familiar with reading these room simulations so are you saying if I choose to place the subwoofer in the rear right with say the room door open I will get a better response below 30hz? Can you indicate what db it went down to at 20 hz.

I made a call to BK electronics today and Tom suggested that a better sub for me to use with this sized room would be a P12 300SB PR which has a very good review and may be more practical although which ever one I go for I think the wife wants it out of the way ie rear right!

Has anyone heard the P12 in comparison with the standard monolith?

Thanks again Conrad

The P12 has excellent reviews on here and elsewhere.
I have had a XXLS400 sub for a number of years with no problems whatsoever.
Two of my friends have BK subs, one a monolith and one a Gemini. Neither have had any problems either.
Tom at BK knows what he is talking about. I had a similar conversation when I purchased my 400 rather than the Monolith, my room is smaller. Comparing my 400 with my friends Mono there is not much in it in my situation. Just a bit of bottom end missing from my 400
 
Funnily enough when I think of the P12 I can look at this sub in the cold light of day and a dispassionate manner. When It comes to the Monolith this changes perhaps because of what people have written about the sub ie: Big boy, Bad boy, window rattler etc. Its a bit like being seduced by the dark side!
Just to make matters more interesting my wife has decided to change our living room around with the 3 seater couch going on the back wall so this position will be 14' from the TV! She did say however we could upgrade our current TV from 58" led to a 65" oled.
Is there a minimum distance subwoofers need to be away from an AVR?
I am also considering purchasing a pair if Monitor audio silver FX speakers, does anyone have any comments on these?
 
Don’t let her put the couch against a wall, terrible for bass. It’s also incredibly hard to rearrange once done.

no minimum distance for subs. I have dual subs within inches of my processor and amps.

14’ is a long way even for a 65”. Recommendations are about 1.5x screen size. Maybe you can get a projector out of this?
 
Hi Conrad,
I do have 2 other chairs in the room and the TV screen is on a unit which does swivel, I suppose because it is a living room and not a dedicated cinema room there will always be compromises. Thanks for confirming no minimum distance.
 
Of course, we all have compromises.

Just be aware that often an in-room response has a small "sweet spot" so unless you're measuring at one of those chairs, the system might not sound so good when you move about the room. It can go either way: boomy bass, or no bass. You could get lucky and all chairs sounds great, but that's unlikely. Room sim will tell you though, so grab a free copy of REW and have a play.

All I was saying (and I was replying from the car, sorry if it was abrupt!) is that if you can keep the couch away from a wall you'll greatly increase the chances of a good response. If you can't though, you can't.
 
I'm afraid the 2 subwoofer route has been ruled out by the boss as one box too many!

Are there any owners who would know the difference between The standard monolith and the plus apart from power output. I tend to listen with volume just over half way on my Arcam AVR20 so the standard monolith may be enough. I am just compiling some questions for BK before I proceed to order unless I am persuaded to look at an alternative.
I have one of each, Mono and Mono+

The mono+ goes deeper as well as louder, I didn't expect any audible difference and the old Mono is still pretty amazing but the plus is quite obviously deeper when you hear it. I had both in the two best (practical) spots in our room and measured them, swapped them over, swapped them back. Noticeable improvement when the Mono+ is in the spot with best bass extension.

Looking at the drivers internally the Mono+ looks a lot more substantial, better built.

I have the opposite WAF problem, when we had only the one sub, the best spot was also good as a side table. Now we have two the old spot isn't best, I got the comment "maybe we should get a third?". After all it would be pretty easy to spend the price of a Monolith on some fancy table that doesn't make any sound at all!

A good friend and colleague had two monster REL's, one at each end of the sofa, his and hers subwoofers.

This post has the measurements of a Monolith and a Monolith+, both measured in two locations overlaid so the difference can be seen clearly.

The green and the orange traces are the +
I have one spot that good for deep and another that good for mid, combined it's excellent.

Two subs is the way to go, anything else is just horribly asymmetrical :)
 

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