Should I return my Sony A8?

brokenamp

Active Member
I've recently bought a 55" Sony A8 (and appreciate all the great advice on the forums!) It's a replacement for this Sony Bravia KDL-40EX503 40in LCD TV Review | Trusted Reviews The colours and black levels on the A8 are notably better, it's brighter, and it's nice having a bigger screen :) I'm thinking of sending it back in the free returns period for a couple of reasons, though:
  • I've played a lot with motion settings on HDR/DV content,, and nothing looks quite right. Either I'll notice judder a couple of times in a 1hr show with the processing set relatively low, or I turn it up and motion occasionally looks 'wrong'.
  • artefacts are far more noticeable on standard HD like iPlayer compared to my old TV - everything from water looking weird to juddering motion again.
  • the Sony's software interface just isn't great. Everything from the Amazon app randomly having lip sync issues to the occasional crash to a power consumption warning every time I turn down the brightness. I know this will mostly be resolved when I buy a nice UHD streamer, but it's still annoying!

I'm going to spend more time trying to tweak things this weekend and watch it side-by-side with the old TV. Is it daft to return this, though? I can see that the TV is far better than my old one in many ways, but I'm not sure I'm enjoying it more - in the course of a 1hr show a couple of things will happen to kind of distract me and break the illusion. I think it's partly that I'm being more critical of the A8 cause it's a new TV, but I also seem weirdly sensitive to these things.

I'm also not sure what I'd try next if I do return this. I seem to be weirdly sensitive to motion processing and judder on this screen (my partner can see issues if I rewind to a bit and point them out to her, but isn't at all bothered by this when watching normally). Sony is meant to have particularly good motion processing? Nothing wrong with my old TV, but I've got money saved for a new one and a bigger screen would be nice...

I know I'm being extremely picky in complaining about a very nice TV, too, and worrying about whether I'm happy with a new OLED is definitely a 1st world problem!
 
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Dodgexander

Moderator
Are you sure its judder you are noticing and not stutter? Stutter is something some people notice more on an OLED due to the instant pixel response time. The benefit of having an instant pixel response time is the TV has next to no motion blur. The disadvantage to this is that on lower frame rate content in particular (most film, TV) there's visible stutter between on frame and another. This is most visible in slow pans.

Judder on the other hand is an irregular pattern of frames, caused by the source frame rate not matching the panel. It shouldn't happen on the A8 since it can always refresh a multiple of the displayed frame rate.

This stutter is typically not as bad as when watching sport which is usually higher frame rate, or even select content that is shot in higher frame rate such as those UHD and HDR sample videos often are on YouTube.

Typically today some kind of tweaking is required on all TVs, usually less so on Sony's actually because there motion is probably amongst the best.

Have you seen: Sony Motionflow & Film mode Settings Explained (finally!) ?

Its important to take the time to understand how each motion setting works and how you can customise it based on what you're watching. Some settings for example do not take affect at all depending on the frame rate of the content you are watching and some its a personal thing deciding on how strongly to set motion interpolation.

You can also search in the A8H owners thread for settings other people are using, such as this post:
  • artefacts are far more noticeable on standard HD like iPlayer compared to my old TV - everything from water looking weird to juddering motion again.
A by product of using interpolation is motion artefacts. Its catch22 in a way. To reduce the stutter you need more interpolation, but you get more motion artefacts. For todays standards iPlayer content is also pretty poor quality. Its mostly 720p HD which was designed to look decent upscaled to HD, but doesn't bode so well when upscaled to UHD. You can expect the picture to look quite a bit worse on an UHD model with lower quality material. A bit like when we first bought HD TVs and SD material looked worse - You have to taste the bitter to taste the sweet.
  • the Sony's software interface just isn't great. Everything from the Amazon app randomly having lip sync issues to the occasional crash to a power consumption warning every time I turn down the brightness. I know this will mostly be resolved when I buy a nice UHD streamer, but it's still annoying!
The built in interface isn't fantastic, but its also not as bad as it used to be on Sony TVs (believe it or not)!
Its one of the reasons people buy LG OLEDs over Sony's...although one of the reasons people don't is because of motion.

At the end of the day you should test what you can during its return period, and if you aren't happy, return the TV. You could just need some time to adjust to OLED motion, or you may well be one of the people who gets along better with LCD TV motion instead.

Its also important to point out that not everyone has the same preferences when it comes to motion, so whilst most people would agree Sony do it better than others, its possible you just don't get along with Sony's motion compared to other brands. If you wanted an alternative to try though I'd consider the XH9505 LCD TV as I think its more likely that a smoother transition (more blur) from one frame to the next will be better on that model. You will still probably need to run motion interpolation at a low setting though.

This is a good video to watch which explains how each TV does its motion differently and why you may be adverse to one motion issue compared to another.
 

rejourda

Standard Member
I replaced my 50" Sony 809c HD tv with a 65 xh9505h a couple of weeks ago. I have only just got used to the motion (and the brightness), when I first started watching it I thought there was differently something wrong compared to my old tv. On my old set I liked standard mode for motion as I liked the smoothness but I did not realise that the new tv motion was set custom mode when on the standard picture setting. Auto motion was too artificial for me but I found that setting the smoothness to 2 and clarity to 1 produced the type of motion I liked. However for live sports I have to switch the smoothness setting off as there are to many artefact around player heads and up the clarity to 2.

I have always found apps on the tv can have their moments with motion problems with Amazon being the worst
 

brokenamp

Active Member
Thanks for the really helpful replies! I think it is stutter rather than judder - most noticeable when there's a pan and it looks like the image is jumping rather than a smooth pan.
I was hoping I'd get used to the motion, but it has been almost two weeks (bought from RS, so either I return at the start of next week or learn to live with it). I've tried quite a few motion settings, but nothing seems quite 'right'. I'll have more of a go this weekend, though. To be fair, I've not had as much time to enjoy the TV as I'd hoped, but ended up unavoidably busy at work...
 

rejourda

Standard Member
I know what you mean by jumping that's what it felt like for me. When I did notice a motion problem on an app I would rewind and watch the scene again to see if I could see it . Sometimes it would be there and sometimes not.
 

HereIsTom

Active Member
Apart I do not recognize this, I also have everything set as standard and I have a beautiful image.
 

brokenamp

Active Member
I know what you mean by jumping that's what it felt like for me. When I did notice a motion problem on an app I would rewind and watch the scene again to see if I could see it . Sometimes it would be there and sometimes not.
Thanks. Where I've seen this in high quality material, it's repeatable when I rewind. Not sure if that makes me feel better or worse!
 

brokenamp

Active Member
Apart I do not recognize this, I also have everything set as standard and I have a beautiful image.
Yeah - I think I'm in the minority in how much the motion on this is annoying me! The images on DV/HDR materials are genuinely lovely...it's the motion that sometimes ruins things for me
 

brokenamp

Active Member
Watched Octopus Teacher on Netflix last night. A lovely film, but all those moving shots of water seem designed to flag up any TV issues!
 

Dodgexander

Moderator
Watched Octopus Teacher on Netflix last night. A lovely film, but all those moving shots of water seem designed to flag up any TV issues!
Try using an external device for playback instead. The built in Android interface can only run at 60hz so it relies on motion processing to fish out the correct frame rate. If you study the motion settings explained thread, film mode is required to be engaged all the time to perform the 'fishing'.

If you send the correct frame rate to the TV externally, say using a Roku Ultra or firestick instead, via frame rate switching, you may find the motion better. UHD Blu-Ray players can also output 24p for DVDs, Blu-Ray and UHD Blu-Rays.
 

brokenamp

Active Member
Thanks! Unfortunately, I've not got a UHD external device and won't have time to order then try one within the 14 day return period. If the store are happy to be flexible, I'll give it a try though.

Watching the old and new TV side-by-side has given me more respect for my old TV! The A8 has clearly got better image quality, but it's not as big a difference as a I expected...and the motion on the old TV looks better to me.

It's not that relevant to me, but one thing that has really improved with the A8 is the built in sound. It's not as good as a decent 2.1 system, but I've heard plenty of worse soundbars.
 

brokenamp

Active Member
Thanks for all the help. TV's going back - for all the tweaking, I don't enjoy watching it more than my old TV... Richer Sounds have been very good about arranging the return - will happily buy from them again.

I'd still like a bigger screen at some point, but not in a hurry. Will probably wait till I can get an in-store demo (apparently I've got weird preferences!) unless something comes up at a good enough price that it's worth the risk.
 

Dodgexander

Moderator
Thanks for all the help. TV's going back - for all the tweaking, I don't enjoy watching it more than my old TV... Richer Sounds have been very good about arranging the return - will happily buy from them again.

I'd still like a bigger screen at some point, but not in a hurry. Will probably wait till I can get an in-store demo (apparently I've got weird preferences!) unless something comes up at a good enough price that it's worth the risk.
That's the right decision mate, you'll never live stuff like that down! I hope in the future you'll find something you like better, sorry it didn't work out for you.
 

brokenamp

Active Member
Just an update to say that RS dealt with the return impeccably - organised collection and are refunding me with no hassle. Not even charging for return postage
 

brokenamp

Active Member
Seen a Panasonic FZ802 for a good price. Wondering if this is worth a go, or is just likely to be a step down from the (more expensive) Sony?
 

mikej

Well-known Member
Seen a Panasonic FZ802 for a good price. Wondering if this is worth a go, or is just likely to be a step down from the (more expensive) Sony?

As it's an OLED, you may potentially encounter some of the issues you had before (stutter in particular) and going from a 2020 OLED to a 2018 OLED probably isn't going to help in that respect. Saying that, I find stutter very rare on my Panasonic GZ950, but it can very occasionally be seen in slow pans on certain content.

Some people are definitely more sensitive to motion issues than others. Personally, I find that setting motion interpolation ('IFC' on Panasonics) to 'Low' smooths out motion a little without any noticeable Soap Opera Effect or artefacts, but many watch with it off without issues.

Buying a second-hand 3 year-old OLED is also risky (from a 'screen-burn' point of view), unless it's from a trusted seller and/or you can test it thoroughly first. No Dolby Vision on the FZ802 would be a negative point for me.

In terms of OS, Panasonic's 'My home Screen' interface is very basic but I find it works well and I've only had one crash (the Netflix app) during 17 months of GZ OLED ownership. Panasonic's app store doesn't offer the full range of apps you would expect, but I have a 4K Fire TV Stick to fill in the gaps (eg. Disney+).
 

brokenamp

Active Member
Thanks. It's a fairly trusted seller, and about £1k for the 65". Tempting, but I'd have to courier it back myself if I didn't get on with it. I'm guessing posting a 65" TV is a hassle!
 
Thanks. It's a fairly trusted seller, and about £1k for the 65". Tempting, but I'd have to courier it back myself if I didn't get on with it. I'm guessing posting a 65" TV is a hassle!
More than a hassle. A complete nightmare if the couriers give it a kicking, and not cheap either. I wouldn't be at all tempted to buy a 3 year old OLED no matter what the price. The tech has moved on since then.
 

brokenamp

Active Member
I'm kind-of tempted to try the LG CX now that's getting reduced as end of line - to see how I get on with LG's motion and upscaling... I'm guessing there's a fair chance I'll see similar issues, though?
 

CaptainNick

Standard Member
It's the same panel as the A8... Albeit with different processing. It may suit you, it may not.

Sounds to me like you need to go into a RS store and actually look at what you are thinking about so that you don't mess the retailers about anymore or waste your own time. I'm sure you'll be able to find something that suits when you can see them in person. 👌
 

GrazzaB

Well-known Member
I’d also say that if you don’t like Sony’s method of dealing with motion then LG’s is very unlikely to persuade you. I had an older set, the LG C6, and 24p motion was awful for me due to extremely obvious motion stutter, and their trumotion system was, for that age of model at least, absolutely useless as it introduced very obvious artefacts even at judder reduction 1/10. So I would absolutely recommend, as said above, a demo. As has been stated, the benefit of response times on an OLED is obvious for material at a higher frame rate, but equally when you go as low as 24 frames a second then that - only for some of us to be fair - makes the motion very hard to watch with slow pans etc.
 

palestine994

Novice Member
Hello.

Can somebody help me? I have had a Sony A8 oled (65') since December. There were lines at the edge of the screen... Sony sad It was a faulty screen. I got a brandnew one but it has the same lines (so the previos screen wasn't faulty)... This lines aren't fix because if I change the ratio (for example 4:3 or 21:9 films) the lines will move with the picutre. I went to Media Markt to see the other TV and every Sony (LCD and Oled) have the same lines ( I saw it also at LG nanocell). It's probably some kind of software thing... It's very strange for me, because nobody has complained yet (I don't saw on the internet). What is your expereience, or what is this? I attached photos, if you zoom in the lines will be noticable.

Sharper pictures on google drive: A8 oled screen – Google Drive
 

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