Should I get a second hand JVC X95R or an Epson TW9300 used?

kbfern

Distinguished Member
Also if your speakers are white like the one by the screen either change them for black or paint them or cover them with some black velvet.
 
If going JVC ill recommend you look at the X500 and forward, it got a better video processor, smoother motion, and dont expect the 7 ot 9 series to deliver more contrast calibrated in those series. And if you are above 110" neutral gain screen, you should look for the X5000 and forward. Dont expect more than 1000 hours on the lamp in a X95, or X500, if you value quality calibrated image quality.

JVC X3 1080P will outperform any Epson LCD projector, no matter what model, only limitation is light output, and if you buy a JVC and you dont offer a new lamp and a calibration, then you just as well go for the Epson.
 

Sephiroth2k

Active Member
@Sephiroth2k , looking at your photos, I'd say its not strictly a batcave. Its well treated but its still got tonnes of potential for ambient light bouncing around.

This is a batcave: Shed of Darkness 9.4.6

If you want to upgrade your room treatments, MVEL/Velvet should be your next port of call, especially 1M-2M out from the screen. It'll do massive benefits for your perceived contrast as the black paint will still reflect and bounce paint around the room as its essentially just grey. The floor is a gigantic source of reflections too.

These are reasons why you might not be happy with the current black-levels in your room.

A grey screen, if you don't want to treat the room, will lower the gain but at the cost of brightness and its very difficult to re-gain the brightness of the whites with it. You also lose down on contrast you would have got by clamping down the iris.


Is there an option of waiting for a JVC in the £1000-£1300 price bracket to pop up? An X7900 or X7500 or X7000 will tick your boxes for lumen output and will have substantially better contrast, pixel fill, motion and blacks than the Epson, but lose out on perceived sharpness.
Alright, thank you very much for all the tips and guidance.
 

Sephiroth2k

Active Member
I would not change your screen until you have your chosen PJ in place. Then you can get samples and compare.
I managed to get the JVC X95R and let me tell you it's the best black levels I have ever seen. Now I don't even have to think about Oled TVs anymore it's that good. I want to conserve the lamp life by using eco mode. The grey screen produces sublime images but it looks best with high lamp mode as it doesn't reflect light as well as a white screen. A white screen would look great even on eco mode but I am afraid it will have a negative affect on the overall black level.

Would a white screen produce similar black levels in my semi bat cave room as the grey screen?
 

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kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
I managed to get the JVC X95R and let me tell you it's the best black levels I have ever seen. Now I don't even have to think about Oled TVs anymore it's that good. The only thing is I want to conserve the lamp life by using eco mode. Although the grey screen produces sublime images it looks best with high lamp mode as it doesn't reflect light as well as a white screen, a white screen would look superb even on the eco mode but the only issue is I am afraid is that it will have a negative affect on the overall black level.

Would a white screen produce similar black levels in my semi bat cave room?
no.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
I managed to get the JVC X95R and let me tell you it's the best black levels I have ever seen. Now I don't even have to think about Oled TVs anymore it's that good. I want to conserve the lamp life by using eco mode. The grey screen produces sublime images but it looks best with high lamp mode as it doesn't reflect light as well as a white screen. A white screen would look great even on eco mode but I am afraid it will have a negative affect on the overall black level.

Would a white screen produce similar black levels in my semi bat cave room as the grey screen?


Just to elaborate. Lets assume a grey screen is 0.7 gain. White screen is 1.0.

So, your colours will increase in brightness by (1.0-0.7)/0.7 = 42% brightness increase. This applies to all colours including the black level. If you notice on your grey screen, if your whites will be dull and lifeless. A bit like an OLED TV actually when ABL activates on a full field white test pattern.

if you get a white piece of paper and shine it over your screen, you'll be shocked and the brightness pop and colour you lose by using a darker screen.

However the blacks really are dreamy.

I've used a grey low gain screen (0.6 to 0.7) and moved to 1.16-1.2. So thats nearly a 100% increase in brightness. My black floor has definitely taken a hit but the image overall is so much better.

But I have a 150-170'' image AND I like to use low lamp mode (for the same reasons as you) so I needed that brightness.

What advantage does this have on a small screen?

Well the more lumens you have, the more you can clamp down your manual iris. The more you clamp down the iris, the more you unleash the contrast of your JVC. Fully open iris you JVC probably has 35,000:1 contrast. Clamped down, this increases a lot... sometimes even doubles! And when you clamp down the iris, you should recover some black floor.


So it's all compromises. The best thing to do is treat aggressively you're entire room with black and velvet, and then get a 1.0/1.2/1.3 gains creen dependant on screen size.
 

Sephiroth2k

Active Member
Just to elaborate. Lets assume a grey screen is 0.7 gain. White screen is 1.0.

So, your colours will increase in brightness by (1.0-0.7)/0.7 = 42% brightness increase. This applies to all colours including the black level. If you notice on your grey screen, if your whites will be dull and lifeless. A bit like an OLED TV actually when ABL activates on a full field white test pattern.

if you get a white piece of paper and shine it over your screen, you'll be shocked and the brightness pop and colour you lose by using a darker screen.

However the blacks really are dreamy.

I've used a grey low gain screen (0.6 to 0.7) and moved to 1.16-1.2. So thats nearly a 100% increase in brightness. My black floor has definitely taken a hit but the image overall is so much better.

But I have a 150-170'' image AND I like to use low lamp mode (for the same reasons as you) so I needed that brightness.

What advantage does this have on a small screen?

Well the more lumens you have, the more you can clamp down your manual iris. The more you clamp down the iris, the more you unleash the contrast of your JVC. Fully open iris you JVC probably has 35,000:1 contrast. Clamped down, this increases a lot... sometimes even doubles! And when you clamp down the iris, you should recover some black floor.


So it's all compromises. The best thing to do is treat aggressively you're entire room with black and velvet, and then get a 1.0/1.2/1.3 gains creen dependant on screen size.
Alright, great advice, that will be my next move. I am just shocked at how good the black levels are even without fully treating the room.

What amazes me the most is the X95 can display inky black images right next to bright images like an oled tv. Another huge bonus is I no longer see the annoying black bars anymore as my screen is 16:9, they just dissapear into the background, it gets that dark. These JVC guys are magicians.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
Alright, great advice, that will be my next move. I am just shocked at how good the black levels are even without fully treating the room.

What amazes me the most is the X95 can display inky black images right next to bright images like an oled tv. Another huge bonus is I no longer see the annoying black bars anymore as my screen is 16:9, they just dissapear into the background, it gets that dark. These JVC guys are magicians.
Yup the JVCs are truly stunning and you have an older X series model which have black levels even better than the new N series.

I think once you put some velvet in the room, the black level perception will actually decrease next to true black but the whole image will pop out more and look even more better.

I was always a bit meh about treating my room aggressively with black and velvet, but once I got a JVC in the room, I knew I had to do it justice by making sure the room allowed it to show its full capabilities.
 

Sephiroth2k

Active Member
Yup the JVCs are truly stunning and you have an older X series model which have black levels even better than the new N series.

I think once you put some velvet in the room, the black level perception will actually decrease next to true black but the whole image will pop out more and look even more better.

I was always a bit meh about treating my room aggressively with black and velvet, but once I got a JVC in the room, I knew I had to do it justice by making sure the room allowed it to show its full capabilities.
Do you use velvet wallpaper or just paint. Is there anything you could recommend with respect to what you used for your walls and ceiling. I used Wickes Dark Flint No. 245 Vinyl Matt for the walls and ceiling.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
Do you use velvet wallpaper or just paint. Is there anything you could recommend with respect to what you used for your walls and ceiling. I used Wickes Dark Flint No. 245 Vinyl Matt for the walls and ceiling.
I have ot velvet curtains from MVEL22 for the side wall and I've got custom made velvet ceiling apnels on top.

My room is only like 30% done so far. Stll got loads to do but the velvet has made an enermous difference. My ceiling should be sorted in the next month I hope.
My walls will have to be next.
 

Sephiroth2k

Active Member
I have ot velvet curtains from MVEL22 for the side wall and I've got custom made velvet ceiling apnels on top.

My room is only like 30% done so far. Stll got loads to do but the velvet has made an enermous difference. My ceiling should be sorted in the next month I hope.
My walls will have to be next.
Sounds awesome, I am not sure if you mentioned your projector earlier but what projector do you use by the way?
 

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