Discussion in 'General Chat' started by signs, Mar 19, 2006.
Free the Horse
What will be the next 'minority' to get voted off the roads?
Cyclists - well they go so slow, don't they?
Motorcyclists - well they're noisy aren't they?
Caravans - ditto slow above?
Lorries - 2 lorries side by side on the Motorway makes me 2 minutes later each day, ban 'em!
4x4 on 'normal' roads - why do they need to do that, they can go off-road?
Sports cars - should be kept for the race track, surely?
Sunday drivers - Why should they be allowed to 'enjoy' a drive?
Any vehicle not capable of keeping up with the speed limits?
Where will it end? (Hopefully with mine being the only car on the road )
As no one else seems to know, the reason horses are ridden on the road is to harden up the hooves, just riding in a field is not enough to keep them in condition.
All of the above and more. They all have the capability to slow down Overkill and therefore are a violiation of his rights to travel to work totally unhindered by other human beings.
Makes you feel sorry for all the horses that have been around for the last few million years before we came along and gave them roads to trot along....poor things; they all must have had terrible chronic hoof ailments.
Sad. I explain why I should not have too, why it's unreasonable to expect me to, and you just ignore it, then make claims I hate everyone on the road slowing me down!
A few problems with that 'pet theory'
1) I don't drive a car and never have.
2) that was only applicable to a journey made years ago
3) I have no problems with horse riders, and expect my wife to slow down when passing them
4) As I have no contact with any of those groups that were reeled off by the 'paranoid brigade' it was a bit of waste of time eh?
Next time you want to attack someone on the basis of your prejudices, get it right eh?
regardless of what you think of overkill's comments, he has a point in terms of 'reasonable use'
ofc everyone has a right to use the highways and by ways of this land.... but there are restrictions for some purposes. Otherwise, how would you feel if you needed to get to work and I decieded that I and a few friends wanted to cycle in front of you all the way at as slow a speed as possible .... I have a right to, but it is more considerate road use to allow you to pass. Shall we organise 24/7 road races out the front of your house so you struggle to get in and out of your drive .... because they have rights to run you know..... or should we try and included some 'common sense' in our approach.
If I wish to drive around looking at the houses along a narrow street, stopping and starting, it would be inconsiderate of me to do so during peak times unless I had to do that to provide a public service.
...... I am sure overkill as he has said has no problems with horses on the road per se, it just that at certain times of the day on certain specific roads, it is not 'considerate' to do so -- especially if you are doing so for pleasure and have the option to go elsewhere or at alternative times.
I should not have to give up countless hours of my life simply for someone elses pleasure ..... nor would I expect others to put up with me doing it to them.
The fact that the scenerio you created was 'academic' rather than a real reflection of your personnel habits does nothing to curb my criticism of it. If it doesn't apply to you then that is great - it wasn't intended as a personnel criticism - so join me in condemning the 'academic person' as someone who is clearly self obsessed.
Yes - fair enough - and this is why we have a Highway code. Suggesting there should be radical changes to users rights those because of a paulty 25min delay though is absurd.
maybe, maybe not depending on the context - if it was on a major commuter route at peak times and its an unecessary delay to 100's or even 1000's of people..... then when you start adding up the ecconomic and personal costs it can be seen to be an absurdity to allow it.
If you were on a horse and delayed me from getting to a customer that had a system down for an extra 25 mins during rush our, you have just cost them potentially £95,000 ... and thats just my customer.
Millions of us clog the roads with unecessary journies, so ofc we have to be careful in singling out a specific sector of road users, but it is 'generally' always the case that horses do NOT need to be there.
Hmmm I dont think mny riders enjoy riding on an A road for longer than is necassary, £95k for 25 minutes? Then there is something wrong with far more than the roads, an accident even a minor one can add an hour to my daily commute no horses, just drivers! I know guys who are ex motor industry who had helicopters landing to pick up a small box of bits to keep production lines running due to the "just in time" delivery system not having enough space to allow for a crash on the M6 thats millions an hour (or was, reffering to longbridge!) £95,000 in 25 minutes! you need a chopper on the pad mate not a car!
I think you must be getting wires crossed, the 'scenario' was real. My personal habits? What being driven to work on a route with no alternatives and already having to get up at the crack of dawn to do it?
I outlined this situation to people at work and quite frankly none of them could see where you were coming from? Well they could, but they suggested a strait jacket as a cure for it.
Do you honestly believe that being made late for work due to people choosing to hold up traffic for long periods is acceptable? They could have chosen another route, another time to ride. We couldn't. What is laughable, is these were (going on the area) the same people who were only too willing to scream down the phone at me and my colleagues if anything they wanted was delayed! Talk about hypocrites.........
If these people couldn't ride elsewhere, and had to ride during that time period, I wouldn't have minded. But they could, and they didn't.
Not wanting some selfish gits make me late for work is being self obsessed? Give me a break............
Luckily ( for my customers at least ) when I am on call I am usually not anymore than 15 mins from a connection, and it would have to be something like the final of stars in their eyes voting time to generate that loss ( part of my job is to keep mobile networks connected and messaging .... consider how much revenue is envolved )
But its the potential - if it was simply £50 ... it's 1000 times that £50 for all the other drivers held up - time not at work - loss of pay etc.
It is the fact that someone is taking something that is a mobile obstruction out specifically at rush hour to add to the chaos that I would object to .... its already bad enough without needlessly adding to it.
Any caravan owner that decides to travel at those times should be pulled over into a field by the police and have their car and van torched while they watch
Yes Overkill - because if timekeeping is that important to you then simply leave home earlier. Simply blaming your bad timing keeping due to horse riders is absurd.
Time keeping is important to employers, businesses, customers, children, freinds and everyone else.
If I had to set off an extra 25 minutes each day simply to cover the chance that there will be an obstruction over and above the norm, I would be loosing my time.
When you consider that over a year, thats approx 90hrs for a regular worker.
Thats 2 and a half working weeks worth of unpaid time ....
Some people choose to have a lifestyle and profession where they have to travel great distances and use up alot of time outside of business hours doing it ... but the majoprity of people don't and are often stuck due to financial and familiy commitments into having to travel specific roots and over specific distances.
What is extremely selfish is to decide that because I choose to put up with something that others should at the expense of their personal time overwhich they have little or no choice ...... simply because some people in their free time want to pursue a hobby.
You might be happy to simply give away 2 years off your life to sitting behind someone who wants to express their right to ride a horse on a public road during rush hour - many others won't be.
and thats 2 years you could have spent being with your kids, wife, family
An interesting point, but IMO off topic because horses do NOT present that large a problem on British roads.
I mean realistically, is anybody going to find themself stuck behind a horse for 25 minutes, every time they go to work??!
I have never even seen horses being ridden at rush hour, and the many other times I have seen horses on the roads it has been done country lanes.
Anyway if you do get stuck behind a horse it takes very little time or effort to pass it, so half this debate is quite worthless because it is based on somebodies unrealistic suggestion that you may find yourself stuck behind horses for 25 minutes each morning, which to me is ludicrous.
100% correct. There are five riding schools within a four mile radius of my home. I have never, in 30 years of driving, been "stuck" behind horses for more than a minute or so. Horses tend to be encountered on quiet back roads, obviously safer for both horse and rider, and very rarely on main roads.
Of course, things may be very different in England, where the hyperbole of some posts leads me to believe that horses are routinely hacked along busy roads in rush-hour traffic, but I haven't heard it mentioned too may times on Radio 2's traffic reports - roadworks, accidents, breakdowns, yes, but I can't remember Sally Traffic ever reporting a 25 minute delay due to horses.
Exactly. Which is why, as I said right at the start, this a dumb topic for discussion. What it does highlight though is how some car owners think they own the roads. Such users need to understand they share our roads with many other types of vehicles and users.
I chipped in to try and support / defend a point overkill had maid about a very specific set of circumstances.
To be more general than an exact incident, it is in the case of someone takeing a horse out on a road for pleasure during rush hour - and that road being a major commuter route.
As overkill mentioned these things do happen - and it that type of case I support his postion - and think it very unfair for anyone to call him selfish for taking it.
Only one comment, please, please, stop trying to prove a point and use some common sense. I am not repeating what, to everyone else I've mentioned this absurd argument too, has been obvious. That these people were being selfish, and they, unlike the road users they annoyed, had a choice. End of.
Mcfarfs, much as in enjoy people going in off the deep end on topics they know nothing about here's a few points to consider.
1) I at NO point said we were trapped behind horses every day. If so I would have been either unable to work due to getting up before the dawn every day to avoid them, or sacked for being late to varying degrees every day!
2) That road (as anyone will tell you who uses it) has constant traffic moving along it. It is also very narrow for long stretches. As someone has pointed out (however, the pro horse crowd seemed to have missed it in this context) you cannot, and should not pass horses at speed. The only way, without getting into a head-on which those blue uniformed guys (and your insurance company) take exception too, to overtake is at speed when the extremely limited windows appeared. Please explain therefore, how, until the horses, which were invariably in groups of three or four, moved off down a b road, they could have been safely passed then?
3) as pointed out these horse riders did have the option to use B routes. They chose not to. How was that our fault?
4) please explain how, just because in your field of experience something hasn't happened, it cannot be so????
I wasn't aware, up until I read your comments, I was debating with the omnipotent..............
I'm personally against horses on our roads, just like I'm against caravan's, sheep moving, greyhound crossing and tractors and any other obstacle that is in my way to my destination, mainly just to frustration it can cause me.
A reason that I would use in a argument about why they shouldn't be on the roads is the fact that it is a unpredictable animal that can get spooked and go off on one, cars don't tend to do that.
All you need is a farmer on his way to move his sheep reving his engine up trying overtake a caravan because he's late after getting stuck at a greyhound crossing, the horse hears the engine gets scared and runs off in front of the tractor/caravan and BANG! the usual multi vehicle/animal pile up and I'm stuck on the wrong side of it with only one redeeming thought, I won't get stuck behind them tomorrow.
The example you have provided has been taken upon by people in the anti-horse league as the norm, and has been used to reinforce their argument. That was the basis for my last post.
Also, despite those cirumstances, I suspect that the figure of 25 minutes is probably somewhat of an exagerration on your part.
No. Sorry Overkill but you had the choice/option of leaving home earlier. It's as simple as that. You justification for your anti-horse argument is that they delayed you 25mins I assume once or twice - well if punctionality at work is that essential for you then you do need to leave earlier. There could be a car crash one day, or roadworks the next or a horse the next. So stop blaming others for you being adrift and set that alarm clock 30mins earlier! Personally I get up at 5am everyday and thoroughly recommend it.
So did you. Why should they take a route that is out of their way? If it takes you longer to travel via the B road then I refer you to my point above, i.e. leave home earlier.
I have to get up in the morning at ten o'clock at night half an hour before I go to bed, drink a cup of sulphuric acid, work twenty-nine hours a day down mill, and pay mill owner for permission to come to work, and when I get home, me Dad and me mother kill me and dance about on me grave singing Hallelujah.
First, that's up to you argue it better. Second, nope. And (sadly) I can prove it. There is, on some old pay slips, comments about my lateness during those months - and why. Underneath the reason is marked as confirmed as the assistant manager had to go the same route!
Thank you EG. That post didn't deserve any other retort. Why he can't just admit he's wrong on this one and give it up I don't know.
I will though, recommend Rascaks, to the insomniacs society. I'm sure that his claims that hundreds of people should get up 45 earlier (to use the B roads) just to keep a few horse riders happy, meaning an even longer and tiring day, will go down a storm!
I must admit though there is a humerous side to this. I just keep passing on these comments about how we should all change our lifes to fit around a few horse riders, and everyone either gasps in shock at the audacity of them or just laughs.
Funny, I got the same reaction when I told some friends that people on an AV forum were arguing that horses shouldn't be allowed on the road and that they even have a poll going.
Thanks for that clear demonstration of media bias in action.
person 'A' ( representing a media reporter ) reports an event to people he knows ( representing the public ) and gets one response.
person 'B' ( representing a media reporter ) reports an event to people he knows ( representing the public ) and gets an entirely different response.
Its the same event - but quite obviously both people have described it quite differently .... and I would not expect the reporting of that response back here to suffer the same response.
Ie If I were to my mates that some mad people on the internet are prattling on about banning horses from the road, I would get a different reaction to telling them that people were discussing the subject and added extra details about how it progressed into specifically discussing traffic congestion and being held up on the way to work etc.
It shows exactly what happens in the media.
Possibly a bit OT, but doesn't some obscure English law still exist that says if a horse is your sole mode of transport and you ride it to work, your employer is obliged to feed and stable it during your contracted hours of work?
If that is true then that is excellent, classic stuff!
sorry for dragging up an old thread ,but i have just seen the ultimate *******
i was stuck behind a bloody woman on a horse and she was on the phone, it makes me so after what seemed like ages she switched the mobile to the other hand and without even acknowledging me waved me past
i waved back with the "v" sign (that told her)
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