Shop To: Are their T&Cs legal?

Discussion in 'Xbox One' started by Triggaaar, Aug 20, 2013.

  1. Triggaaar

    Triggaaar
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    I've pre-ordered the X1 from Shot To, and am a bit surprised by the following terms:

    "PLEASE NOTE: Pre-paying for your preorder does not constitute confirmation of contract

    Acceptance of your order and the formation of a contract between you and us will take place when we send you an email confirming that the products you have ordered are being despatched to you, unless we have notified you that we do not accept your order or you have already cancelled it.

    If you decide to cancel a paid pre-order funds paid will appear in your ShopTo.Net account balance.
    In the event of a pre-order dropping in price we will credit the difference paid back to your ShopTo.Net account balance upon the item shipping. This amount can only be used towards purchases on website and is non-refundable.
    Once a paid pre-order has been made due to the different costs of our various delivery options you are not able to change the delivery method selected. "

    The first bit - placing a pre-order does not constitute a contract, contract will be once we've dispatched goods - is standard, and makes sense (eg, they don't want to be in breach of contract if their supplier lets them down, or if the price goes up).

    But they're saying that although there is no contract, you can't change your mind and ask for your money back (you get a credit to spend in store instead). That can't be right. Not only that, but you should be able to receive the product, change your mind, send it back and still get your money back (distance selling rules).
     
  2. maddogb

    maddogb
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    AFAIK DSR regs apply even before goods have been delivered, the regs simply say you have up to 7 days after delivery and make no mention of limits before delivery so yes you are probably right.
     
  3. Triggaaar

    Triggaaar
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    Even without DSR it can't be right. If there is no contract until dispatch, and they have the right to cancel before dispatch (because there's no contract), then how can you now cancel.
     
  4. maddogb

    maddogb
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    If only the law was that simple and logical, we wouldn't need the damm lawyers but its not something worth worrying about when there is a simple way out of it like the DSR
     
  5. Member 79251

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    Its like a gentleman's agreement. You agree to hand x amount over to pre order and they agree to send you one. If it all goes wrong then your up the river looking for that paddle.
     
  6. mklion123

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    I like how they already have your money, and if the product is cheaper at release they will put the difference into your shopto account, but you can't have it refunded, you have to spend it there?????
     
  7. Triggaaar

    Triggaaar
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    Exactly. It's mental, and almost certainly not legal.
     
  8. Desmo

    Desmo
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    It's legal because obviously you read their terms and conditions before handing over your deposit, therefore agreeing to them. Terms and conditions can be set to almost anything you want, if one party doesn't agree then don't trade.
     
  9. Triggaaar

    Triggaaar
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    No that's not correct. If that was true, then distance selling rules (as an example) wouldn't apply in all cases - because companies could simply say in their T&Cs that you can't return goods if you've changed your mind. But you can, because that's the law, regardless of what the T&Cs say.
     
  10. Miss Mandy

    Miss Mandy
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    The credit of the difference is something different though. They don't have to return anything to you if you've pre-paid as you've already agreed to buy it at the higher price. They are going above and beyond their legal obligation by offering you the difference back, albeit in a slightly back hand way by making it their credit which you'd only be able to spend with them.
     
  11. Triggaaar

    Triggaaar
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    No they are not, because although you are saying you would pay the higher price, there is still no contract (not until they dispatch it), so it's still up for negotiation. They want to have their cake and eat it (rubbish saying). They're suggesting that you're obligated to something, but they are not. Which is BS.
     
  12. Desmo

    Desmo
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    Statutory rights are different altogether and, as you say, can't be changed. But if they want to turn your cash into credit and you've agreed to it then I don't see any comeback.
     
  13. Desmo

    Desmo
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    It might not be great, but that doesn't make them wrong or illegal. If you're not happy with the terms, don't trade with them :)
     
  14. Miss Mandy

    Miss Mandy
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    Its not up for negotiation from your end as you've already agreed to the price, its only open on their end which is where they choose to accept the higher price you've offered and then credit some of that back to your account. There's nothing wrong or illegal about it and its clearly stated in their terms so if you don't like it, don't pre-pay for your pre-orders.
     
  15. Triggaaar

    Triggaaar
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    They could sell you a credit voucher, but they're not.

    I'm not suggesting that it's illegal simply because it's not great - but just because something is written in T&Cs, does not make it ok. For example, banks used to say they'd charge you a fee for going overdrawn, and that didn't make it legal. The banks returned a lot of money because of the dodgy ground they were on (in the end, banks were going bust because of the credit crisis, so in that case the courts allowed banks to keep the charges, but the point still stands).

    That's not how contract law works. If you offer a price, and then withdraw the offer before the offer is accepted (and they accept when they dispatch), then there is no contract, and you have not agreed to a price. That's simply how contract law works, and their T&Cs can't change that.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2013
  16. m1ket

    m1ket
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    OK from what i can see it is an option to prepay for a preorder you dont have to?

    In any case it looks like the default option on cancelling a pre order that has been prepaid is to put the money in your shopto account but if you contact them they will refund from the account to your card

    From ShopTo.Net - Help

     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2013
  17. Triggaaar

    Triggaaar
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    Sounds like the solution. But instead of automatically charging you and then posting it when ready, they have to contact you for payment?

    "If you request this balance to be refunded back to your card an administration fee of £0.70p will be deducted from your refund total." Ok, so they won't keep your money. It's still weird though, when you can just let them post it to you, refuse delivery and then ask for the lot back (with no admin charge).
     
  18. TimeLord

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  19. steve1873

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    Terms & conditions do not effect your statutory rights, as I am sure has ready been pointed out (not read entire thread yet)
     
  20. Desmo

    Desmo
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    Read the thread first and you'll see I said it myself :)
     
  21. jjgreenwood

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    Yup they are trying it on but it isn't legal and they have no leg to stand on
     
  22. Desmo

    Desmo
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    I still don't see the problem. In general, deposits are not refundable.
     
  23. Munkey Boy

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    Here is the legal point of view:
    http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/engla...u_change_your_mind_about_buying_something.htm

    The relevant paragraph:
    Sounds to me like the retailer can keep the deposit if you decide to back out.
     
  24. Triggaaar

    Triggaaar
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    That would be if you had a contract with the seller. From your link: "Once you’ve made a firm agreement with a trader, you have a legal contract with them, even if there is nothing in writing". But in the example we're discussing, there is no contract, because the seller stipulates that there is no contract until they dispatch the goods.

    The bit you've quoted is more relevant to ordering non stock item, which a seller would have to get and then return to the supplier if you change your mind. In that example, there is a contract and it would cost them money to return it, hence you get charged.
     
  25. UKBOY

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    The words "If you decide to cancel a paid pre-order funds paid will appear in your ShopTo.Net account balance" are the most important ones here.

    People prepay for an item (their choice) and then (for varying reasons such as poor reviews, finding item cheaper elsewhere etc etc) ask for their preorder to be cancelled prior to the item being despatched)

    Due to the cost/time of administering these refunds to a payment card, a standard charge of 70p is being taken, with the remainder of funds being returned to the original payment method.

    This charge is stated in the sites help section and is merely to cover the processing cost, for each time someone wants a refund, rather than having funds placed on their Shopto account (as a credit balance) for other/future orders/items.

    The above has nothing to do with DSR, which of course, gives you statutory rights when ordering via "mail order".

    As with any etailer, you can return unopened/unused items for a refund under statutory DSR's, however, the return postage costs are usually borne by the customer (with certain exceptions such as etailer loyalty/membership schemes which cover return postage costs up to a stated amount)
     
  26. Munkey Boy

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    I'm informed by my wife (a trading standards manager) that the deposit is a contract if you pay money for it.
     
  27. Triggaaar

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    Surely that would depend on the wording. Show her the exact details on the site. It's not really a deposit is it. Would she say that regardless of them saying "Acceptance of your order and the formation of a contract between you and us will take place when we send you an email confirming that the products you have ordered are being despatched to you" a contract exists, and you could sue them for breach of contract if they never receive the goods from their supplier? I doubt it.
     
  28. EL Dukeo

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    Dont buy from shopto they are an absolute disgrace of a company in the first place!
     
  29. UKBOY

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  30. Cha1ky

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    I think if you look every company will have bad reviews somewhere.

    Just go with what you know and are happy with. :thumbsup:

    Amazon are second to none though for CS. ;)
     

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