Shooting motorsport

[stonedcamel]

Hello there, I have reading on this subject quite a bit for quite a while and i just seem to be going round and round in circles. Especially most of the helpful tips are related to canon and not a nikon

Anyway, recently i have been getting more and more frustrated with my shots from the track as they arent in focus, i seem to take to many (deleting quite a few afterwards), lighting, exposure blah blah the full works. The more frustrated i get whilst at the track, the more i change the settings and without thinking and getting lost ive given up.

The camera is my beloved nikon D300s and my zoom lens is AF-S VR 70-300 F/4.5-5.6G IF-ED and the general setting are in shutter mode which im always flicking through settings (feel stupid ) metering, not to familiar with it and flicking through, same as exposure compensation. ISO tends to stay at around 200 and i have the camera shooting 6fps (no battery grip) generally 9 focus points and continuous focus AF-C.

Think thats all the setting above.

Think thats everything i can think of, i feel stupid for this because i thought i was doing well and getting along but all of a sudden i cant do it anymore.

Hoping for a help and sorry for the long read
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nikon-NIKKO...HNCC/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1305059598&sr=8-2

 

[Mat-O]

Wouldn't point focus be better to quickly grab a car, rather than 9 point focus? Also maybe bump up the ISO is you're finding that you can't get your shutter speeds fast enough.

 

[Dr O]

Hello there, I have reading on this subject quite a bit for quite a while and i just seem to be going round and round in circles. Especially most of the helpful tips are related to canon and not a nikon

Anyway, recently i have been getting more and more frustrated with my shots from the track as they arent in focus, i seem to take to many (deleting quite a few afterwards), lighting, exposure blah blah the full works. The more frustrated i get whilst at the track, the more i change the settings and without thinking and getting lost ive given up.

The camera is my beloved nikon D300s and my zoom lens is AF-S VR 70-300 F/4.5-5.6G IF-ED and the general setting are in shutter mode which im always flicking through settings (feel stupid ) metering, not to familiar with it and flicking through, same as exposure compensation. ISO tends to stay at around 200 and i have the camera shooting 6fps (no battery grip) generally 9 focus points and continuous focus AF-C.

Think thats all the setting above.

Think thats everything i can think of, i feel stupid for this because i thought i was doing well and getting along but all of a sudden i cant do it anymore.

Hoping for a help and sorry for the long read

Canon has a better range of lenses so most sports photographers use them but plenty of people like Mark Wernham shoot motorsport using Nikon kit.

There's a lot of technique to shooting motorsports- mastering panning for a start. Easy with digital- I remember doing it with film.

What sort of shutter speeds are you using- are you looking for traditional blurred wheel shots or what sort of effects/ shots are you wanting?

 

[stonedcamel]

Ive been trying alsorts really.... panning shots where the cars are zooming passed and shots where the cars are coming head on into or out of a corner so shutter speeds tend to vary and i try lots ranging from 1/125 to about 1/250 i have been down to 1/60 with some, shall we say interesting blurry mess. Every now and then i get a shot and think wow tho but cant remember what i changed etc and im playing with dials and messing everything up. feel a tit because i thought i had the hang of this a while ago

Thanks

 

[stonedcamel]

i know the canons have alot more and nearly everyone i see at the track as a canon but the nikon felt better to me which was my reason for choice.

A friend of mine who races, asked me to take pics for him this year and i got really excited and said no probs and i did really well at donny last year for his first race but not i feel a tit

 

[Dr O]

i know the canons have alot more and nearly everyone i see at the track as a canon but the nikon felt better to me which was my reason for choice.

A friend of mine who races, asked me to take pics for him this year and i got really excited and said no probs and i did really well at donny last year for his first race but not i feel a tit

Nothing wrong with Nikon for motorpsort- as more people use Canon there's more tips for people using Canon. My point is the camera is irrelevant to a large degree and that most tips should be applicable to any brand. Even the settings are the same- you just need to translate what Canon call it to Nikon speak

Your shutter speeds are far too slow- that's your main problem. Obviously it's dependent on the conditions at the time but I'd be looking working around 1/500 depending on effect. Might go as low as 1/250 but depends on the track, corner, effect, conditions. I'd have VR off too. 9 point focus ok. Certainly not 51 or 3d tracking. Too much for the camera to do and not required.

Worth remembering that the basic rule of thumb is that your shutter speed should be at least= 1/(focal length) to avoid blur from camera shake.

Keep that in mind and you can't go far wrong and just practice.

 

[stonedcamel]

what metering mode? matrix, center or spot.... i was always thinking center but ive been trying alsorts and getting lots of different stuff and i try to stay away from exposure compensation but ive heard i shouldnt be scared of using it

thanks, great help

 

[Deleted member 27989]

Personally I wouldn't worry about exposure compensation just yet, get used to getting the speed right such that you can create the effect that you are after. Only then and when you are comfortable doing that and have the sharp (or not) image that you want start experimenting with that. The effect (should I say need) varies a lot as well depending on the focus that you use.

Can't think why the comments for Canon that you have seen aren't valid for Nikon, or at least in the basics. Use of focus is a bit different etc...but principles are the same.

Id practise with normal cars or cyclists that go a bit slower to hone my skills, or even running children (my own) which can be tricky as they don't follow a track.

PS. Don't feel stupid ;-) It is an interesting question.

 

[Johnmcl7]

Ive been trying alsorts really.... panning shots where the cars are zooming passed and shots where the cars are coming head on into or out of a corner so shutter speeds tend to vary and i try lots ranging from 1/125 to about 1/250 i have been down to 1/60 with some, shall we say interesting blurry mess. Every now and then i get a shot and think wow tho but cant remember what i changed etc and im playing with dials and messing everything up. feel a tit because i thought i had the hang of this a while ago

Thanks

If you're shooting on the long end of the 70-300mm, I'd be going for 1/300 or 1/400 shutter speed as any lower than that and I think you're going to struggle depending on the speed of the cars. The D300s has very good high iso so don't hesitate to increase it if your shutter speed is dipping too low but also be aware that you don't to push it too high or you'll get the effect of the car being parked on the track like this:

http://johnmcl7.smugmug.com/Nurburgring/Nurburgring-Cars/Race-Porsche-911/355140307_iBtM2-L.jpg

Obvious question but I'll ask it anyway, do you have the VR set correctly? I can't remember the Nikon VR modes but if VR is set incorrectly it can actually blur your photos as the VR mechanism attempts to compensate for your panning movement. Make sure your VR on the lens is set to allow panning.

If you can, choose your spot carefully on the race track. A slow corner is a good spot if you want to get a good shot of the car:

http://johnmcl7.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/Knockhill-Racing/PA099981/193734483_fLQUs-L.jpg

This shot was taken on a hairpin with a basic DSLR (no idea why Canon is brought up above, it's of no relevance) which was simply set to standard AF and the burst mode engaged. I focused on the apex of the corner then started shooting as the bike came into the corner and kept going until it left. That gave me a sequence with a few out of focus pictures but allowed me to pick this one out of the middle. I rarely use multi-point focus as the camera doesn't know what I want to focus on, if I've got just one focus point on I can make sure the camera focuses on the correct target.

If you're wanting a high speed pan then I'd choose somewhere that gives you some distance because if you're too close you'll have to pan the camera very quickly to have any chance of a picture which I find tricky. If you're further away you don't need to pan as quickly which makes it much easier to get a controlled pan and a decent shot.


I wouldn't be worried about a low keeper rate either, I'd machinegun the shutter as fast moving cars can be tricky to nail in one shot.

John

 

[Thug]

Welcome to motorsport photography where you get 100 rubbish photos for 1 or 2 good ones.
The benefit of digital is that you can delete them as you go, so all the naff ones you can get rid of whilst your waiting for the action to come back round.

I have shot LOADS of motorsport, but mainly motorbikes.

It doesnt matter if tips are for Canon or Nikon, the method is the same.

Your lens will be fine, but i found that the most i zoomed in was about 100-200mm.

There are 2 ways you can do this 'fairly' easily...

Firstly set your camera to shutter priority and a speed of about 1/500 sec (bear with me here). Set your focus point to the centre one (as thats the most sensitive) and servo assist (if you have it) which is where your camera will track focus a subject. Canon cameras automatically select the centre focus point when you pick servo assist, but also use the other focus point if the subject moves into one of their zones after the innitial focus lock.

Try and get a slow bend and follow the subject through it, whilst panning (twisting your hips to pan). Press the shutter and keep panning to follow the shot through.
This takes quite a bit of practice, but an easier way is to...

Pick your point where you want to stand, and in front of you select an area on the track and focus on it using auto focus and zoom in/out to compose your shot so the subject is not going be too tight or distant.. Now take your camera off auto focus and onto manual focus, but do NOT touch the lens
Next pick your subject and follow it with your camera and just before it reaches this pre-focussed point, press the button and keep panning.

You will notice that you will get more keepers, but they will look static due to your high shutter speed. As you get better at focusing and panning start t slow your shutter speed down so you evenually get to about 1/125-1/200 sec so have the subject sharp, but the wheels moving.

 

[HelloMoto]

Canon has a better range of lenses so most sports photographers use them but plenty of people like Mark Wernham shoot motorsport using Nikon kit.

There's a lot of technique to shooting motorsports- mastering panning for a start. Easy with digital- I remember doing it with film.

What sort of shutter speeds are you using- are you looking for traditional blurred wheel shots or what sort of effects/ shots are you wanting?

I wouldn't say that really. The 1.3x crop of the 1D MK III/IV would be more of a draw, the lens selection available is about the same. You could even argue the Nikon 200-400mm is a draw for using Nikon for motorsport.

You are right though panning is a good technique to learn.

 

[jamez2010]

ok not sure how much help i can be as i shoot with canon, but il do me best, here is a album of mine, not sure some people rate it etc but i like them http://jalbum.net/en/browse/user/album/869169/

but basically i struggled alot at first shooting motorsport, and being a keen brands hatch visitor i slowly progressed, i found setting the focus to 'AI servo' helped, as the focus locks and tracks whatever you focus it on, wacking the iso up, aperature as low as i can get away with.

panning def helps, and me being a caffeine addict, doesn't have very steady hands anyway, so panning with a monopod i found a massive help.

hope that's some help

 

[Dr O]

....no idea why Canon is brought up above, it's of no relevance......

What part did you miss- the bit where the OP mentioned Canon first and that they could only find tips for Canon and it was merely pointed out that it makes no odds as they'll be applicable to any brand. Perhaps condescending comments like that should be kept to yourself if you can't be bothered to read

 

[arthurdentpc]

Try taking the VR off as well - it's whole point is to stop motion. Just an idea.

 

[jradley]

Not detracting in any way from the excellent advice already offered in this thread, but you may also wish to look at this old thread here (not mine, unfortunately) - the tips here worked for me at LeMans... http://www.avforums.com/forums/digital-photography/691137-had-bash-motorsport-photography-guide.html

Good luck and don't give up - this type of thing really does require practice, practice and more practice, and even then as PCthug says you may still only get 1 or 2 keepers out of hundreds.

Cheers,

John

 

[Johnmcl7]

What part did you miss- the bit where the OP mentioned Canon first and that they could only find tips for Canon and it was merely pointed out that it makes no odds as they'll be applicable to any brand. Perhaps condescending comments like that should be kept to yourself if you can't be bothered to read

Nope, can read just fine and missed nothing it's just your comment was irrelevant. However you clearly need to take your own advice as you clearly did not read my post as it wasn't condescending (unlike yours which I also managed to read). Call me old fashioned but I prefer to stay on topic and not insult other users so I don't like it when people make false accusations back to me particularly after their own error.


John

 

[stonedcamel]

brilliant advice and very much appreciated. some question unanswered.

1. What metering mode should i be in? matrix, centered or spot, i always thought center waited.

2. What ISO? or is it a case of higher the shutter speed then higher the ISO to compensate?

3. Exposure compensation?

4. how many pictures are keepers generally? I always think im takin to many, i took approx 4000 at brands hatch for BTCC and deleted to the point of about 600

Will be trying this out this weekend as the BSB come to croft so i will post some results.

Thanks for the patience

 

[BluChrome]

I've had a look through the post here and I've recently starting shooting trackside with a Nikon D5000, after about 3 events now what is working for me is. AF-S (Servo) for continual focusing, I use a single spot focal point but not necessarily centre (I try to focus on the helmet of a rider for bikes). I also shoot using dynamic tracking, which means when the subject moves from one AF point to another it remains in focus.

I shoot manual and raw, and generally spot meter, check exposure and adjust to compensate - as I'm generally shooting in a single location for a number of shots this has been working well.

For panning shots I was starting out using fairly slow speed but was really struggling to get sharp pics, I've found that with speeds are fast as 200s I can still get good motion blur. I read conflicting info about VR, but as I understand it the Nikon VR system is intelligent enough to recognise panning and so I generally leave it on. I've not noticed any ill effects from the tests I did.

It's still hit and miss, but on my last attempt my hit rate exceeded my miss rate.

Exposure 0.002 sec (1/500)
Aperture f/6.3
Focal Length 165 mm
ISO Speed 200

Exposure 0.005 sec (1/200)
Aperture f/6.3
Focal Length 122 mm
ISO Speed 200

Exposure 0.001 sec (1/2000)
Aperture f/5.6
Focal Length 200 mm
ISO Speed 200

 

[Dr O]

Nope, can read just fine and missed nothing it's just your comment was irrelevant. However you clearly need to take your own advice as you clearly did not read my post as it wasn't condescending (unlike yours which I also managed to read). Call me old fashioned but I prefer to stay on topic and not insult other users so I don't like it when people make false accusations back to me particularly after their own error.


John

So what you're saying is that you read that the OP made a comment that they were unhappy that most of the useful tips were for canon and not nikon and possibly wondering why there aren't any for Nikon. You then read that I have said it doesn't matter it will be transferable. I've also included some information as to why this is the case as a bit of background info for the OP that they&others may or may not find useful but didn't think I've strayed off topic.Obviously that's more a read between the lines but I haven't gone into the change of mount and the superb AF performance from the Canon lenses that made their range of lenses a practical must-have for sports photography in general back in the 90's. That prob would have been too much- the yep, more tips for Canon, sounds about right, more people use them, largely in part due to historically having better lenses but it's all transferable to nikon and some great pros use Nikon for sports so chin up, not to worry, seems fine to me.
Dejongj has also said the Canon tips should be transferable.

You have then posted in a 'why is anyone mentioning canon, I don't understand, these guys know nothing, ignore them, it's all irrelevant' manner- and you don't think that's condescending?

You seem to be glossing over the fact that this happened- the OP did mention Canon- usually that means replies can pick up on things mentioned by the OP and instead you are now going down the route of accusing me of insulting users on the board and going off topic.

Well OK, we're off topic now

As for my posts- I haven't insulted anyone on the boards. Might have been a bit short with 1post wonders who are clearly spamming but that's a different matter. Everyone has their own style so yeah it can be hard to convey exactly what you mean- sometimes it is 'lost in translation'. Your snide remark was disrespectful, unecessary and rather than try to resolve any misunderstanding have chosen to insinuate that I insult users and that it's my fault. If my posts were irrelvant why bother to bring attention to them again- OP didn't seem to have an issue- only reason I can think of is for an ego trip of superiority seeing as you've read the facts and decided to ignore them anyway. Those who know me know that I'm always light hearted. I freely admit to Sony bashing every now and again but it's always banter and I don't believe I've been malicious.

As for my reply, well the OP seemed to be beating themselves up a bit but there's lots of technique involved so mentioning that and effectively saying no quick wins sems ok- long time since I've shot motorsport and remembering how much it appears shooting film was wing and a prayer stuff when you look back is pretty amusing for me- I know it wasn't because I'd studied but not having that immediacy seems archaic almost now. Some of the shots I developed, what a donkey- digital is such a great opportunity to go away knowing it's fine.

The OP has come back with shutter speeds and it's clear that it's likely to be a large part of the problem - no need to beat about the bush. The OP has had success in the past so don't think there's much wrong really. Sort the shutter speeds and practice panning, reading/ anticpating movement and enjoy. All seems pretty positive to me and not insulting/ condescending.

There's certainly no box your camera, give up, you know nothing comments that you do see so the only one making false accusations would seem to be you.

Clearly I shouldn't need to justify my comments to you the judge and jury as to what is deemed acceptable when you choose selective acknowledgement of what you have written but there you go. My writing style obviously doesn't sit well with your moralistic vision so best not to 'read' my posts in future.

Anyway, back to helping the OP on topic

 

[Dr O]

brilliant advice and very much appreciated. some question unanswered.

1. What metering mode should i be in? matrix, centered or spot, i always thought center waited.

I'd go with centre-weighted although nothing to stop you experimenting with matrix. Personally I wouldn't use spot

2. What ISO? or is it a case of higher the shutter speed then higher the ISO to compensate?

If you're shooting in A mode for example and are looking at f5.6 and only geting a shutter speed of 1/125 then increasing the ISO will raise the shutter speed. Raising the ISO does give you trades off in image quality and at some point you may run into lens/ camera limitations but your set up is fairly flexible for the track so I wouldn't worry about it. Have a look at this article

3. Exposure compensation?

You're right to not be afraid about using exposure compensation. It's down to your feel and the conditions at the time- do you need +1/3 or more- white car overtaking black car. Can be difficult- remember some of the most iconic images aren't technically perfect with colours etc and also some can be recovered in post. I'd say experiment but I'd place it lower down in your priority at the moment. The correct exposure can become important at higher ISO for keeping noise in check so useful to have in your tool-kit.

4. how many pictures are keepers generally? I always think im takin to many, i took approx 4000 at brands hatch for BTCC and deleted to the point of about 600

Seems good to me as a start- it's only going to go up as you improve. As you become more competent at spotting shots and improve your technique you may take less but maybe you'll take more. As long as you're happy I wouldn't be overly concerned- it'll sort itself out as you progress and define your own style.

Hope that helps, good luck

 

[chou4555]

As an amateur photographer in the 1960s and 1970s I took photographs of races at Crystal Palace Park, South London, uincluding one where Graham Hill was racing! I now want to photo Rally Sport at Lydden Hill in Kent, but haven't got a camera. I don't want to spend too much and want to use the camera for other things as well. I was wondering about this range of cameras... http://www.panasonic.co.uk/html/en_...MIX+G+Micro+System+Cameras/4855154/index.html would they be responsive enough for me? I think that looking at the specs they should do the job!

Thanks!

 

[Thug]

brilliant advice and very much appreciated. some question unanswered.

1. What metering mode should i be in? matrix, centered or spot, i always thought center waited.

2. What ISO? or is it a case of higher the shutter speed then higher the ISO to compensate?

3. Exposure compensation?

4. how many pictures are keepers generally? I always think im takin to many, i took approx 4000 at brands hatch for BTCC and deleted to the point of about 600

Will be trying this out this weekend as the BSB come to croft so i will post some results.

Thanks for the patience

I forgot this was on this weekend, i might see you there.

 

[stonedcamel]

brilliant and thanks for all the help everyone and its much appreciated and for the patience.

PCThug, im going both saturday and sunday so might see you there

 

[Thug]

brilliant and thanks for all the help everyone and its much appreciated and for the patience.

PCThug, im going both saturday and sunday so might see you there

I always stand either at the end of the first series of bends from the start line (as there is a gap in the fence that i can poke my lens through) or on the bank before the finishing straight.

Look for me in leathers (always go on my bike due to the amount of traffic) and carrying my Canon 5dmkII and white 70-200L.

 

[Deleted member 27989]

I always stand either at the end of the first series of bends from the start line (as there is a gap in the fence that i can poke my lens through) or on the bank before the finishing straight.

Look for me in leathers (always go on my bike due to the amount of traffic) and carrying my Canon 5dmkII and white 70-200L.

I'm glad you continued that sentence