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Sharp LC26P50E - PAL optimized LCD

Discussion in 'LCD & LED LCD TVs' started by echelon, Oct 1, 2005.

  1. echelon

    echelon
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    Hi, i'm wondering of anyone has any opinions on the PAL optimized 26" Sharp P50, as i noticed at least one person on here has one, yet i cant find a single review anywhere on the web.

    I've been looking to buy my first LCD TV since seeing that cheap Sainsburys 26" for £500, however ive been put off by the awful quality of SD broadcasts on LCD panels.

    I watch everything on Freeview and have no intention of upgrading to SKY-HD at any point (if fact i cant, cos im not allowed to install a satalitte dish on this house). However, i am interested in getting an Xbox 360 or PS3, or maybe both, and this TV supports them both, with HD compatible component and HDMI inputs. The resolution of 960x540 is the perfect comprimise; i dont think you could notice the difference between that and a true HD set, not on a 26" screen anyway.

    Anyway, I'm just mainly wondering, how does the picture look through the component port? Also how to the current crop of consoles (PS2,Gamecube, Xbox) look on it? I assume there's less ghosting than the 32" version? Finally, how are the black levels and the speaker's sound quality??

    This'll be my first big TV (it'll be replacing a 14" CRT) so i want something good! For the price (under £600) and features this set just cant be beaten!
     
  2. echelon

    echelon
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    no one?

    damn..well im going to Tottenham Court Road/London West End today, so hopefully i'll be able to see one in action..
     
  3. Gordon D

    Gordon D
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    Let us know what you think... I'm seriously thinking of going for this one or maybe the 32" version. :)
     
  4. neilmcl

    neilmcl
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    I've got the 37" and as I've stated on a number of threads I think this gives a much better non-HD picture than any of the new crop of LCD even with all of their fancy picture processing software (Wega, Pixel Plus, DIST etc). Unfortately I can't give you an answer to your component input question as I've only got DVD and Sky+ connected via RGB Scart but I can say that these do give an excellant picture IMHO.
     
  5. richard plumb

    richard plumb
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    I don't get it.

    540 lines or not, SD TV is still 576i, so it'll need to deinterlace. The only difference between this and a 720p set is 50% more pixels vertically and horizontally. Thats a relatively minor task for a scaler, and I can't see that adding all the artifacting that's been discussed regarding sky etc. Not to a significant degree anyway.

    I can't help thinking this is Sharp using cheaper 'half HD' panels and they happen to coincide nicely with a PAL signal which gives them a good marketing opportunity.

    if you will use the set a lot with Xbox 360/PS3, then please consider a 720p set as you will be losing a lot of resolution in comparison (although yes it'll look great compared to a 14" portable)
     
  6. neilmcl

    neilmcl
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    The proof of the pudding is in the eating and I can honestly say compared to, for example, new range of much applauded Sony's, the Sharp gives a much better account of itself displaying non-HD material and before you ask, yes I have had a good side-by-side demo of both.

    Personally I prefer to let people make up their own minds rather than urging them to buy one thing over another especially when you have no idea what the Sharp will look like with the Xbox 360/PS3 etc rather than just speculating. However, anyone actually thinking of buying this set will/should realise what it's good for and they'll know that any form of HD display will be a compromise, whether it'll be a bad compromise lets wait and see shall we.
     
  7. GrahamC

    GrahamC
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    I have a 32" coming on Tuesday :)
     
  8. richard plumb

    richard plumb
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    OK neil, calm down. I didn't think I was telling him to do anything, except for mentioning potential caveats for next-gen consoles.

    Fair enough you like the output of these sets and have compared with similar LCDs - again I wasn't doubting your experiences, I was just curious how they work (the Half HD panels). I can't help but be a bit cynical of 'PAL optimised' considering how we have been previously treated as a bit of a techno-backwater in the past.

    Maybe its just a happy coincidence that Sharp have jumped on, in which case, fair play to them.
     
  9. rnicoll

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    To take a 576i signal, and make it 576p, you end up extrapolating half the lines. However, if you take the lines from the next frame, and the lines from the previous frame, and display the mid-point between them in the right place, you're going to have something that looks pretty good. Algorithms for de-interlacing are reasonably simple and effective.

    I'm a little puzzled why the Sharp is 540p, but I'll trust they have their reasons.

    However, scaling 720x288 to 1280x720 means 77% more pixels wide, and 150% more pixels deep. First step is to de-interlace (because we're pulling pixels from other frames, rather than the current frame, for this), and we're down to needing 25% more pixels vertically.

    This is where it gets awkward. The first pixel on the LCD is the first 0.56x0.8 of the first pixel in the real image. The next pixel horizontally gets the remaining 0.44 of the first pixel, plus the 0.12 of the second pixel, and so on... Given you can't subdivide a pixel, the scaler has to make a best guess, and that's where the artifacts are coming from.

    Personally, I'd wait until the XBox 360 is out, and it's possible to see how it well it works with one of the Sharp PAL LCDs before buying one (in fact, that's exactly what I'm doing), but they do look very tempting IMHO.
     
  10. echelon

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    If it's such an easy task to scale SD pictures up, why do they all look so bad on current LCDs? Maybe if the TV's in the corner of your living room you may not notice, but in my opinion all LCDs are currently inferior to current CRTs..but is that any wonder, considering all current LCDs panels have been designed with American NTSC broadcasts in mind?

    Actually if they're the only company manfacturing these panels at that specific resolution, surely their costs will be significantly higher?

    I imagine i'll watch TV on it more than i play Xbox 360 or PS3..so SD TV quality is higher priority..

    However, i'd still like other people's opinion's on how a scaled-down component source looks on this set
     
  11. echelon

    echelon
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    from the Sharp website:
    "PAL has 625 lines in total. 576 lines carry the picture (the others holding information such as Teletext), but due to ‘overscan’, where non-essential picture information is broadcast at the edge of the screen to compensate for varying screen specifications, 540 horizontal lines has been chosen as the ideal display resolution."

    The main reason that exact number was chosen is that it's exactly half of 1080..so to display a 1080i source they can just scale down by 50%, or a 720p can be scaled by 75%.

    it's all explained at http://www.sharp.co.uk/pal.html
     
  12. dfrasik

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    Hi, I have now had the 32" version for 5 days and so far I am extremely happy with it. (FYI..my previous TV was a 28" Toshiba CRT). The TV is mostly used for watching Freeview and DVD, and I have no plans to go Hi Def, so choosing a TV that gave good SD PQ was of paramount importance to me. All i can say is this tv really works with freeview, and in my/wife's opinion it shows a better picture than the old tosh. If it wasn't it'd be going back.
    Just before anyone asks, I was willing to spend up £1500 for new 32" LCD, and after looking at the Panasonic lx500, jvc ds6, and sony 32v12, I ended up choosing the SHARP 32P50E - and it was only £820 :).
     
  13. Gordon D

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    Sky charges me £41 per month as it is, how much will they charge for a few HD programs?? To be honest I just cant afford it. I prefer to have a nice size LCD that I can use to watch my present collecton of DVD's and my current Sky setup. :)
     
  14. rnicoll

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    Cool. Definitely impressed by the fact that they can just scale 720p to 75%. Still want to see how it looks with an XBox 360 before I buy one, but can see definite advantages.
     
  15. mugsy

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    Can we have lots of piccy's please? :thumbsup:
     
  16. GrahamC

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    Oly on charge as we speak. :)
     
  17. hardiz

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    Can you connect this Tv to a computer via the HDMI? (ie DVI-HDMI cable) Has anybody done it?
     
  18. GrahamC

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    It's just arrived a day early :thumbsup:. I''l post again in the morning and give my thoughts.
     
  19. jabberwocky-

    jabberwocky-
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    Iv got the 32p50E comming tomorrow :)

    I would be interested to hear about the performance of it with your samsung 950 hdmi player, via hdmi...
     
  20. jabberwocky-

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    I might give it a go, but am expecting it to look pants as the resolution will be too low. You really need minimum of 768 x 12xx for decent pc output on a screen this size, unless you like running retro 80's, or early 90's pc games...
     
  21. mugsy

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    Yay - thanks Graham :clap:
     
  22. 8472

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    Well, I got my 32" P50 on Sunday and like a few others, have discovered that it doesn't display Progressive Scan material correctly. :thumbsdow The picture will occasionally judder at random intervals and the general pq is poor. I am currently in two minds wether to return the set. Does anyone know if the juddering can be fixed (by a firmware update for example)?
     
  23. mugsy

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    8472 - Your post is the 1st I have read with regards to 'juddering' on the P50. In fact everything else I have read praises the P50 for it's great picture. Have you tried connecting your DVD recorder (or any other devices) via RGB scart? I've not heard of the Yamada before but it appears to be at the lower end of the DVD recorder market - perhaps the component/progressive scan output isn't implemented too well?
     
  24. echelon

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    im suprised to hear the PQ through component is poor; this post (http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=235994) shows an INCREDIBLY sharp picture of Bugs Life via Component Input on the same TV.

    Any other P50 owners have an opinion on this?
     
  25. GrahamC

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    I have a judder/rippling on prog scan as well, but it's a bit strange, investgating :confused:. Mugsy your pics will have to wait. :D
     
  26. GrahamC

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    I don't have a HDMI player only a DVI so cant help you.
     
  27. jobseeker

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    No juddering (though that word can mean many things) on prog scan via either component or HDMI on either of my two 26" models.
     
  28. kjlee5

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    I have a 37" P50 connected to a Toshiba SD350E player via component and I have also noticed this juddering on film DVD's when the black bars are showing top and bottom. By stretching the image to full screen the juddering disappears. Strange.
    Playing a series DVD such as Smallville and the picture quality is very impressive. As these are naturally full screen there is no evidence of juddering. Why the two would be related I'm not sure.
     
  29. Gadgetboy

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  30. mugsy

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    Uh oh, I had high hopes for this set - I hope someone can get to the bottom of the 'wobbling' :(
     

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