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Sharia Law..

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Dextur

Distinguished Member
In a previous thread on Sharia law today, axidy10 came in guns blazing, spouted some interesting / telling replies then requested the thread be closed so his comments couldn't be replied to.

Seemed interesting folks can be so desperate not to have their arguments dispelled they would rather quell all discussion.

What's clearly interesting, to me at least is that despite the horrific nature of Sharia law in various countries around the world, some Muslims will defend it.

Is this primarily because there's no choice but to defend it in order to feel they are following their faith or is it true blindlessness to the horrific nature of some of it's laws in less progressive countries?

Is the kind of washing over the horrific nature of stoning women to death etc, part of the way belief is maintained?

Here's the last post ..

============================

Originally Posted by SimonH
.???

So stoning , torturing or impronsonment of homosexuals, athesists or the murder of raped women is not disgusting.

The truth is you close your eyes to reality in order to sustain belief.

The bare truth is to hideous to deal with.

That's a fact, whether you wish to deal with it or not.

I agree Sharia law has some good points, charitable donations etc but that doesn't excuse some of its hideous barbaric undertones.



========his reply==============

your mere reply shows such a lack of understanding its unbelievable!
what you know of sharia law is what you have heard on the news and read on this thread! your ignorance is amazing!
Please educate yourself and then come back
=================================

Which leads me to believe, he's not trying to defend Sharia law because he feels he should but because he actually believes the above.

He actually feels all the news reports about Sharia law are fictional and that everybody is "ignorant" etc.

Is this another case of religion clouding judgement to the point of extremes?

Has it gotten so bad that somebody thinks and I quote "theres nothing disgusting about shariah law" ?

Is that the state of denial for those who have to accept everything in relegious law?
 
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BB3Lions

Distinguished Member
Let it go son let it go.

Beliefs are personal, its his mind rightly or wrongly, its his belief & they should be respected, albeit might be blx.
 

Dave

Distinguished Member
I think it's more of an indictment on the totalitarian nature of some religions rather than anything else.

Islam in particular teaches total obeisance rather than any type of individual thought. Personal opinion is moot when there is a direction from Allah and this is both encouraged and reinforced.
 

johntheexpat

Distinguished Member
Or is it a case of The Emporer's New Clothes? Everyone knows that it has huge problems, but nobody is prepared to stand up and say. Possibly because it gives the bully boys with the big guns an excuse to not ask questions before shooting their enemy?
Would you openly argue against contraception if there was a gang of heavily armed fanatical christians standing behind you?
Do you really think the Catholic population of NI actually approved of the IRA mudering their own during the 1970s? Jean McConville - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Or the protestant population doing the same?

Its just a tool for the gun totting thugs to keep the rank and file in line, like the abuse of religion has been for hundreds of years.

Do you think this would have happened, if the 'law' enforcers had been unarmed?
BBC News - Mali unwed couple stoned to death by Islamists
 

Dextur

Distinguished Member
Some charming "fictional" news stories, presumably made up in order to discredit Sharia law.

Rights groups slam death-by-stoning sentence for Sudanese woman - latimes.com

'Modern' Life In Afghanistan -- Stoned to Death for Being In Love | Fox News

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/17/world/asia/17stoning.html

BBC News : Somali woman stoned for adultery

Horrific video emerges of Taliban fighters stoning couple to death for adultery | Mail Online

Shariah (Islamic) Law: Muslim Little Girl Stoned to Death for Being Raped - Atlas Shrugs

http://www************/causes/teena...eath-after-taking-part-in-beauty-contest.html

That is a quick 30 second search , from multiple sources of multiple events.

This happens , whether our friend believes it does or doesn't.

There are also many videos available but I didn't post them, to hideous to watch.

Are people simply unaware or desperate to pretend it doesn't to sustain their faith?
 

simon ess

Well-known Member
Let it go son let it go.

Beliefs are personal, its his mind rightly or wrongly, its his belief & they should be respected, albeit might be blx.


This was my first reaction too.

However, I realise I actually don't know anything about Sharia law.

I'm not convinced that stories of stoning, amputation etc. are actually what Sharia law is about.

There must be be some muslim members who can explain better than the person you refer to.
 

Dextur

Distinguished Member
Let it go son let it go.

Beliefs are personal, its his mind rightly or wrongly, its his belief & they should be respected, albeit might be blx.

I'm not overly concerned about his beliefs as such , more the ability of relegion to cloud judgement to the point of actually believing all news outlets are making stories up .

As far as respected, no , they categorically should not be respected.

Sharia law that is, no law which stones girls to death should be respected.
 

Dextur

Distinguished Member
I'm not convinced that stories of stoning, amputation etc. are actually what Sharia law is about.

It's about all kinds of things of course as you would expect, and these abhorent backwards rulings are just one part of it, there's even some rather positive elements of Sharia law such as a % of your earnings going to charity although I've read stories where the charities are drum roll... Islamic charities which propogate this stuff in the first place.

Either way, my beef isn't with Sharia law as a whole, but with what seems to me to be an utterly disgusting disregard for common decency in regards trying to white wash stoning for example and more so the point, is relegious belief able to "brainwash" somebody into thinking that stoning a 13 year old girl to death after she has been raped by 2 men is ok.
 

Dave

Distinguished Member
This was my first reaction too.

However, I realise I actually don't know anything about Sharia law.

I'm not convinced that stories of stoning, amputation etc. are actually what Sharia law is about.

There must be be some muslim members who can explain better than the person you refer to.

Sharia is basically the way life should be led and laws to be followed from the Quran. They are many and varied and some incredibly forward thinking given the time they were written.

Unfortunately it's the stoning to death of women etc that everyone hears about rather than the stuff covering giving to charity, divorce protocol, animal slaughter and so on.

It's a real shame that Islam has such a hard time because out of many of the mainstream religions it's rather more modern than most would believe. It's the zealots and extremists that ruin it for the rest.
 

Dextur

Distinguished Member
I think it's more of an indictment on the totalitarian nature of some religions rather than anything else.

Islam in particular teaches total obeisance rather than any type of individual thought. Personal opinion is moot when there is a direction from Allah and this is both encouraged and reinforced.

Quite possibly yes,can't say I'm overly keen on that either.

Basically shut down your morals and thoughts in order to be mentally subservient to a God.
 

Dextur

Distinguished Member
But my question is, is that really Sharia law, or some fanatical, evil act by extremists using Sharia law as a weak justification?

That REALLY is Sharia law yes.

There are articles in the Iranian law that specifically even stipulate how deep the person should be buried before they are stoned to death...

It's not so much individuals , ie extremists which dictate Sharia law, but the countries in which it's used.

Obviously in the UK , stoning doesn't happen because we have a legal framework on top of Sharia law which forbids it. That and most Muslims in the UK are sane , decent folks, well educated etc.

The fella in question who had his thread locked made no bones that stoning was acceptable because it was "handed down by God".

:(
 

Dave

Distinguished Member
Quite possibly yes,can't say I'm overly keen on that either.

Basically shut down your morals and thoughts in order to be mentally subservient to a God.

Or use fear and ignorance to impose your power over others.

Hmm that has echoes of early middle ages Christianity.

Which is where Islam falls down for me.

A thousand years ago it was incredibly forward thinking but it hasn't really evolved since when the world and everything around it has.
 

Toko Black

In Memoriam
Beliefs are personal, its his mind rightly or wrongly, its his belief & they should be respected, albeit might be blx.

Dave said something similar on the previous thread:

"It's the lack of respect for individual belief I find hard to stomach and I find it incredibly disrespectful. You may not like that but there you go, it's just my opinion."

I'm just wondering how we qualify that.
Are all personal beliefs to be respected ?
Say for example the personal belief of a racist biggot ?

If yes, then fair enough, I just could never respect that type of view.

If no, then where does one draw the line, is there some magic set of rules ?

If you believe that a particular set of personal beliefs are detremental to society and that person has expressed those view in public ie on a forum, why should you be forced to respect them.

Is it fair if I think one set of beliefs is harmless but you believe that they aren't that I should be able to take the moral high ground and sugguest that if you don't respect them you are being anti social ?

It's too much of a grey area and there simply is no consensus on what should and should not be respected or what is harmful and what is not.

All we can do is say we should respect peoples rights to express their opinions, beliefs within the confines of the law and or within the rules of the forums behaviour code. That means people expressing opinions both for and against whether we agree with them or not.
If someone comes on to a forums and posts that they believe France has launced a space ship and it is about to land on the sun, they shouldn't be upset if someone calls the idea nonsense.
 

Trollslayer

Distinguished Member
So this is about Islam or is it about how people use religion as an excuse to do what they want?
E.g. Hinduism and the caste system?
Jehovah's Wintesses and lettign a child die rather than get a blood transfusion?
How about the curch in Tenesee this week where a black ccouple who have attended there for years were barred from getting married there because of their colour?
Banning gay marrige because of the bible?
Banning women from becoming bishops?

I believe there is something about glass houses and casting stones...
 

Papcx

Active Member
Dave said:
It's the zealots and extremists that ruin it for the rest.

I've always said this.
Hindu extremists become gurus.
Budist (sp) extremists come monks.
Christian extremists join cults and kill themselves.
Unfortunately Islam extremists preach hate.
 

Toko Black

In Memoriam
The major issue I have with Sharia law is not just the headline grabbing stonings, but the fact that it puts beliefs and teaching above evidence and reason.

Laws should be based on our best knowledge of how to be just using the best techniques to establish the facts.
 

Dave

Distinguished Member
The major issue I have with Sharia law is not just the headline grabbing stonings, but the fact that it puts beliefs and teaching above evidence and reason.

Laws should be based on our best knowledge of how to be just using the best techniques to establish the facts.

Laws should be based on that but many of the UK's laws aren't based on evidence and reason.
 

Dextur

Distinguished Member
Yeah, that's my point, sort of.

Take away the agendas of individuals, groups and nations, what is Sharia law itself?

Sharia law's says that stoning is a viable punishment for adultery. There's variance country to country for sure.

I's simply not practised in most countries, obviously the UK would never allow it. I think there's at least a half dozen countries where it does go on though, they have even stoned children to death..

The last one they did was in a stadium in front of jeering men . Her crime? She had been raped.

Not sure if the Quran itself specifies stoning, need a Quran expert but the Quran does say people can be flogged 100 times for sex outside marriage and whatever the outcome, so be it.
 

BB3Lions

Distinguished Member
If your born in a country that has strict laws then you should either abide by them or face the consequences or if possible leave it.

But let's be honest, its not that easy, however....

Another point, every religion has its crux. Sharia law is no different than Catholicism where its illegal to have an abortion if you've been raped, or Jehovah's who will not give a blood transfusion to a dying child.

It's there laws, there beliefs, there faith - nothing you, me or the 99% can do about it - ever.

Move on, worry about something you can fix.
 

Dextur

Distinguished Member
So this is about Islam or is it about how people use religion as an excuse to do what they want?
E.g. Hinduism and the caste system?
Jehovah's Wintesses and lettign a child die rather than get a blood transfusion?
How about the curch in Tenesee this week where a black ccouple who have attended there for years were barred from getting married there because of their colour?
Banning gay marrige because of the bible?
Banning women from becoming bishops?

I believe there is something about glass houses and casting stones...

I think for me it's more about something I see all the time in all relegions, Islam is no worse than any other in this respect.

It's the requirement to shut ones eyes , put hands over ears and "forget" all the hideousness that goes on it's name and only focus on the good elements.

It's , to me, like a form of brainwashing, or self hypnotism almost.

I find it scary.
 

Dextur

Distinguished Member
If your born in a country that has strict laws then you should either abide by them or face the consequences or if possible leave it.

But let's be honest, its not that easy, however....

It's not that easy no, classic example, the 13 year old girl had been raped by 3 men, then was arrested for sex before marriage, buried up to her neck and then whilst crying for mercy was stoned to death whilst a crowd of hundreds looked on jeering.

She didn't break any laws, unless being raped is breaking the law..

Just because I can't change a law in Sudan, doesn't mean it shouldn't be discussed.
 
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BB3Lions

Distinguished Member
SimonH said:
It's not that easy no, classic example, the 13 year old girl had been raped by 3 men, then was arrested for sec before marriage, buried up to her neck and then whilst crying for mercy was stoned to death whilst a crowd of hundreds looked on jeering.

She didn't break any laws, unless being raped is breaking the law..

It's sad its sick its wrong & its unjust, but its there laws; nothing you or the 99% can do.

3 monkeys time, sad to say.

There are worse atrocities going on in the world.


BB
 
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