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Sexualizing women in video games

What do you think about Vanessa's bum?

  • Sexy!

    Votes: 30 60.0%
  • It's a little flabby

    Votes: 13 26.0%
  • I refuse to reply because this is sexist

    Votes: 7 14.0%

  • Total voters
    50

Lolicon

Member
What is your opinion on this? Is it wrong? Is it right? Some people like it, some people don't. But of those who don't like it, there are more and more people claiming this is degrading to women. Too much focus on their sex appeal and not enough on their character.

As an example, I bring you Vanessa Z. Schneider from GameCube game P.N.03, perhaps one of the most sexualized females of all time in gaming:

You can see she has a big bum:



One of her outfits basically consists of a g-string, a tube top and chaps:



And naturally, because it's big, it's also a little flabby:



This is how she moves, in-game, when she shoots:



Now, why did the developers do all that? It's obvious they did it because some people find her big bum to be sexy. Some people even find her flabby arse jiggle to be sexy.

But is this attitude locking females out of too many games? Are females being disturbed by heroines such as Vanessa Z. Schneider? Would more females play games if the heroines looked less sexy and more serious? Or has the difference in what kind of games males and females play nothing to do with characters' sexiness?

I believe this is a pretty hot topic in the videogame industry. Sexism and how women are portrayed in games. On the other hand, which bloke doesn't like to look at a sexy woman? What do you think about this? Is Vanessa degrading to women in general because of how she dresses and moves?

Or, is it only degrading the moment gamers starts talking about her bum? The moment they start sexualizing her and treat her like a piece of meat. For example, I'm creating a poll with this thread where you can judge her bum. Is that sexist? Or is just innocent? This poll is only focusing on her arse, and not her character. It judges her from her looks only.

No matter what you think about this, there's lots of this to be found in the gaming industry - which is still dominated by males.
 

Trollslayer

Distinguished Member
Laura Croft was a good example of this, created to draw in sexually frustrated teenagers.
It's not just in gaming although this is a very good example.
 

Quaddy

Well-known Member
its alright, if it goes anywhere near making up for the constant mockery, belittlement of and female condescension of men in adverts and on tv, some of which wouldn't be allowed if role reversed then i am all for it :devil:
 

The Snake

Banned
Look what they did to the Cadbury caramel bunny on tv, that's pure playboy centerfold:


Heah Mr Beaver indeed......looks like somebody else could with some. I rest my case:).
 

majnu

Member
Duke Nukem, Witcher 2, Max Payne 3 should all be banned.......
kidding
 

Lolicon

Member
I think there are few females on this forum, no? Females are usually not that interested in tech stuff, and they don't really care HOW a TV or a game works, they just care IF it works.

Also, maybe this is not a big issue in the UK? In Sweden where I live, feminism is REALLY big and practically all politicians says they're feminists because it's the political correct thing to do here. If you're not a feminist who fights for women's rights, you're wrong and seen as a "bad" person. Maybe this is different in the UK?

Anyway, I like too look at beautiful and sexy women. Feminism in Sweden has made that a shameful thing to do, because you objectify women by doing that. But aren't we all until we learn to know the woman in question? And since you'll never get to know a virtual woman, you objectify them all the time. Sure there are some great personalities too, but that doesn't mean that there aren't women in games just for their looks.

Oh, and... poor Vanessa *looks at poll*. But I suppose that's the fate for all women with big bums.
 

EndlessWaves

Distinguished Member
Name a heavily built character in a video game.... is the one you're thinking of slightly dim?

I think the oversexed female character is just another stereotype rather than any sort of problem.

Looking around at the games on my desktop I'd say the most memorable characters from them are:
Nicole Collard, Broken Sword
Zoe, Left 4 Dead
Princess Adda, The Witcher
Triss Merigold, The Witcher (& 2)
Ssani, Neverwinter Nights 2: Storm of Zehir.

Out of those only Triss Merigold could be said to conform to this stereotype.
 

Lolicon

Member
Name a heavily built character in a video game.... is the one you're thinking of slightly dim?

I think the oversexed female character is just another stereotype rather than any sort of problem.

Looking around at the games on my desktop I'd say the most memorable characters from them are:
Nicole Collard, Broken Sword
Zoe, Left 4 Dead
Princess Adda, The Witcher
Triss Merigold, The Witcher (& 2)
Ssani, Neverwinter Nights 2: Storm of Zehir.

Out of those only Triss Merigold could be said to conform to this stereotype.

But isn't the stereotype itself the problem? At least that's what many in Sweden think - we don't like stereotypes here. :) And by "we", I don't include myself.

Unfortunately, I'm not very familiar with the characters you're mentioning (probably because I mostly play Japanese games), but look at Vanessa. She has a wasp waist and then - BAM! - a big arse. If real women have a bum that big, they most often have a thicker frame overall. It's like she has an arse of an overweight or plump woman, but the rest of her is perfectly slim.

Also, she wiggles her bum when she shoots - for absolutely no reason. It's just there to add sex appeal. And, her bum jiggles quite a bit (as seen in the YouTube vids), but I'm not sure if that's supposed to be sexy or just realistic because she has a big bum (and big bums do jiggle). I don't think it's sexy with a flabby arse, but each to their own (judging from the poll result so far). :D

I think the problem with stereotypes, as some people see it, is that it sends a message like "this is how you should look, this is the ideal". That goes both for real women in the fashion industry and virtual women in movies or games. Many women in games look like Vanessa (minus the flabby arse) - big boobs, big bum, thin waist and slender long legs. Or maybe it's a Japanese thing to design women like that, as you mentioned many examples of women who aren't stereotypes.

Personally I don't see this as a problem, as long as it's virtual and not real. But obviously some people do, and I can understand why.
 

B3anstar

Active Member
Females are usually not that interested in tech stuff, and they don't really care HOW a TV or a game works, they just care IF it works.

And there's a generalisation. Where you live maybe, but in my world the women/girls tend to know more than the guys. My house not with-standing (though my wife is very tech savvy as we both work in IT), it's the females who know how to use a computer or hook up tv's/pvr's etc. Some of the men are embarrassingly bad.

Oh, and i can only see Vannessa's firing\wiggle animation but that is a perfect bottom, not flabby at all. Give me that any day over skinny no but :D

Strong female characters :

Females in Gears of War
Chloe in Uncharted 3
 

Maxson

Active Member
Yes her bum is sexy and there is nothing wrong with that. But please don't let that be why you buy a game! The reason why this sells is there are lots of young makes that buy games or get their parents to buy them games. But not so many females. So make a game with a non sexualised, strong female protagonist and it won't sell that well. Bit of a shame that really.
 

Lolicon

Member
And there's a generalisation. Where you live maybe, but in my world the women/girls tend to know more than the guys. My house not with-standing (though my wife is very tech savvy as we both work in IT), it's the females who know how to use a computer or hook up tv's/pvr's etc. Some of the men are embarrassingly bad.

Oh, and i can only see Vannessa's firing\wiggle animation but that is a perfect bottom, not flabby at all. Give me that any day over skinny no but :D

Strong female characters :

Females in Gears of War
Chloe in Uncharted 3

Of course it's a generalisation. And personal social experience aside, women ARE less interested than men in tech stuff. There will always be exceptions (everywhere).

If you can't see more than the wiggle gif, I understand you can't see:

- that her arse is actually jiggling
- that her bare bum has a complete lack of muscle definition.

But of course, those are just my opinions. ;-) But judging from the poll, I'm not alone thinking it's a little flabby.

Maxson, you sure? I mean, sure, sex appeal might be one of many reasons... but THE reason? I'm not sure about that, even if we're talking teen boys.
 

B3anstar

Active Member
Brought up in a family with strong women I would consider it the norm for me, yet they had no problems with games like this or "other" material, It's there for fantasy nothing more.

I have yet to see studies showing women aren't interested in how things work. All of a sudden i'm having images of the chumley warner.
 
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Lolicon

Member
Brought up in a family with strong women I would consider it the norm for me, yet they had no problems with games like this or "other" material, It's there for fantasy nothing more.

I have yet to see studies showing women aren't interested in how things work. All of a sudden i'm having imagines of the chumley warner.

Well, take a look at the difference between males/females attending to tech studies. Women are more interested in health and child care. I know, not everyone. But most.

Though, I don't believe either that most women are offended by a character like Vanessa. Thing is though, here in Sweden it's the norm to be a feminist. Games like these always gets slammed in media, some even lower the score of a game because it is "sexist" (half naked women running around for the male pleasure).
 

B3anstar

Active Member
I don't think my lot would call themselves feminists either so from what you're saying sounds like a culture thing. How does the score altering sit with the free speach and artistic interpretation? :)
 

Lolicon

Member
I don't think my lot would call themselves feminists either so from what you're saying sounds like a culture thing. How does the score altering sit with the free speach and artistic interpretation? :)

Funny you said that, because we Swedes like to think that we're so "open" and "free". Yet we're probably the most anti social people in the world unless we sit in front of our computer or smartphone screens. Have you ever traveled on a Swedish train?

The feminists here argue that games like these affect girls negatively, as in: they're not free to make up their own mind. They are affected by everything they see in society (and many things they see has to do with beauty) and therefore it's "not good" that so many games are making women into "sex objects". It hurts girls. :laugh:

Needless to say, no one is saying anything when there are attractive and scantily clad males in games. Well, the only thing that might be said is "wow, that's original!"

Swedes are incredibly afraid of not being political correct. We have "free speech", but beware to walk outside of the pre-determined box. Then the speech is not so free anymore.

A great example of how feminism works in Sweden:

On national TV, there was an older guy grabbing a girl's butt on live broadcast. Media made it to huge news and the guy was forced to apologize officially.

Then, not long after, an older lady grabbed a guy's butt on live broadcast. This was made into something fun by the media. People laughed at the old lady and even cheered her on. Even today, his butt is often brought up as "sexy" and "idealistic". Needless to say, the woman was never forced, or even asked, to make an apoplogy.

Feminism in Sweden is one way - it's only to make life better for women. Women here have 100 rights and 0 responsibilities. If you grab a woman's butt, you rape her. If a woman grabs a guy's butt, she is funny and outgoing.

Just a single day ago, the Swedish minister for equality admitted that all focus for equality in school had been pointed towards girls and women. "Now we need to focus on the boys and men" she said.

Doesn't that tell you everything?
 

Trollslayer

Distinguished Member
Sexism in PC games is rife but the this is an international phenomena so needs to be looked at from that perspective.
Lolicon's post is very interesting and, if I read it correctly, indicates that Swedish feminism is where the UK was 10-15 years ago.
Not that everything is sorted out here of course.
It would also be nice if the original post hadn't implicitly condoned existing attitudes though.
 
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Tom Martow

Distinguished Member
I live in the UK and to be honest, all 'feminists' are actually doing the same thing they hate, the opposite sex ruling over them, there's nothing wrong with women having rights, women were treated badly by husbands and companies but if I lived in Sweden and its as bad as you say it is, I'd either move or kill myself. I can't stand feminists, but ONLY because they're not fighting for equal rights, they're fighting to be better than men, because they have a right attitude when you talk about men, and to be honest, what kind of man ever wants to being around that.

I say this all the time, if a women wants my respect she's got it immediately, but when they show off their boobs and wear short skirts then they lose my respect, because what do they want? Attention, I respect women who are well mannered and not outspoken, they lead with elegance not with arrogance. This is the type of women you respect, regardless of what anyone thinks.

I've always said, some women are idiots, some women are great, some men are idiots, some men are great. Literally in the UK you have to watch your back constantly, if you're in a job, and you say something like "no you can't pick up that because your not made to carry heavy things" to a women, they go off on one and say you're not treating me like everyone else. You help a women, you're wrong, you don't help women, you're wrong, you look at a slut that's a clear slut, you're wrong.

Feminism is bull.


Oh I forgot to mention, it's a game hahahaha who ****ing cares about looking at a female character the wrong way.

/Thread
 

Sega Mega Dave

Distinguished Member
I'm still amazed we allow them to vote.
 

Lolicon

Member
You would be surprised at how many people care about how women look in games. For example, when one of Sweden's biggest gaming magazines reviewed Resident Evil Revelations, the reviewer (who's a feminist) did nothing but complain about how Jill and Rachel are portrayed - big boobs and big butts. She even lowered the total score because of this, and there was a heated debate about it. Needless to say, that was great for the magazine since it got a lot of attention. ;-)

By the way, I find it highly interesting and a little amusing that one third of you have voted that the girl's butt is a little flabby in this poll! :D I don't say it's wrong, actually I also think it's a bit flabby, but I didn't think anyone would agree. Normally when you show a girl with a great bod BUT a flabby arse, people overlook the flabby aspect because the rest of the body looks so great.
 

Tom Martow

Distinguished Member
A racist, sexist, femenist, manist (is that one?), shouldn't be allowed to post stuff like that because it's so biased it makes you sick, The reason why they make girl characters the way they do is because the media protrays an image of how girls should look.

so you won't get a resident evil 7 when the girls in a wheelchair or in crutches, or looks like the elephant man (maybe a villain)

PS. I'd love to punch a femenist.
 

Lolicon

Member
So... is the girl in this thead the result of an image distributed by media? Slim body with a big, plump arse?
 
MrIdontKnow said:
A racist, sexist, femenist, manist (is that one?), shouldn't be allowed to post stuff like that because it's so biased it makes you sick, The reason why they make girl characters the way they do is because the media protrays an image of how girls should look.

so you won't get a resident evil 7 when the girls in a wheelchair or in crutches, or looks like the elephant man (maybe a villain)

PS. I'd love to punch a femenist.

Hey I'd buy the games if the main girl was in a wheelchair, simply because im thinking of Bentley from then Sly Cooper series.

Lol
 

BestGirlFriend

Novice Member
It is making women think that to be attractive they need to force their bodies into an unrealistic shape.

If Barbie was a real person then she wouldn't be alive. Her waist is so small that it wouldn't hold all her vital organs. And her head is on such a thin neck that it would not be strong enough to support it.
Etc etc.
 
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BestGirlFriend

Novice Member
A racist, sexist, femenist, manist (is that one?), shouldn't be allowed to post stuff like that because it's so biased it makes you sick, The reason why they make girl characters the way they do is because the media protrays an image of how girls should look.

so you won't get a resident evil 7 when the girls in a wheelchair or in crutches, or looks like the elephant man (maybe a villain)

PS. I'd love to punch a femenist.

And do you agree with "How girls should look" as depicted by the media?
 

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