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Setting up an amp for first time - help needed!

Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by Tejstar, Nov 28, 2004.

  1. Tejstar

    Tejstar
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    I'll be purchasing a Yamaha 750 and Genie package next week and need some help in understanding all the cables I need to set it up.

    I've currently got a Panny 37" Viera, E85 DVD recorder, Sky and a VCR. Apart from the speaker (subwoofer) cables, what other cables do I need?

    I know I need an optical cable between amp & dvd player, but what else?

    Thanks!
     
  2. reservoir51

    reservoir51
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    The optical cable only transmits sound digitally. If you also use your DVD player to play CDs, you may also want to connect analogue RCA phono cables between your DVD player and amp (hence bypassing your amp's DAC-resulting arguably in better sound, or so the purists would say, although it all depends on the DACs in each unit).

    You'll also need video cables. Since the Yamaha DSP-AX750 is able to unconvert all video signals to component, this means you'll only need a component connection between your TV and amp, and connect each of your video sources (eg. VCR, Sky, DVD player, etc.) to your amp using S-Video or component. I wouldn't use composite as the poor picture quality via composite defeats the purpose of using component between your TV and amp.

    Regards,
    reservoir51
     
  3. Tejstar

    Tejstar
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    Don't laugh, but do I definitley need to connect video sources even if I don't want to benefit from the video upconversion?
     
  4. reservoir51

    reservoir51
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    No, you don't have to. In fact, if you connect your video sources directly to your TV using component or at least S-video, then you should get the best possible picture quality by virtue of bypassing the amp's electronic circuitry. For all the convenience of video upconversion, the video signal from the amp will be an attenuated one, which inevitably results in a slight deterioriation in image quality. Whether this deterioriation is noticeable to the naked eye is debatable, but in theory and in practical terms, the shortest and uninterrupted visual signal is best. The exception to this, I suppose, is if your amp and DVD player have iLink (or Firewire) which enables the transmission of digital video without any loss of quality, but since most TVs do not have iLink connectivity, you'll get some deterioriation in the analogue signal to your telly in any case. Note that at present, most iLink-capable DVD players and amps do not have iLink video-out, due to copyright restrictions imposed by the DVD Consortium, so this point is a hypothetical one at best! Even if you wanted to transfer your miniDV footage on your camcorder to your iLink-capable DVD player, you would do that directly without involving the amplifier.

    If you connect your video sources directly, make sure that your telly can handle all the inputs.

    Regards,
    reservoir51
     
  5. Mango Bob

    Mango Bob
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    Nope, I've got a 750 and have all video sources going to my RPTV directly. Component (3 RCA-3 RCA) from DVD to TV and scart from sky box and ps2 into the TVs RGB scart sockets.

    My sky box (Pace) has no s-video out so I've just got scart straight to TV - the downside is I need to manually switch from sky to dvd on the TV rather than just switching the amp source which is a minor pain. In your case I'd daisy-chain the sky, video and dvd recorder although not sure what the best order is as i've never used a dvd recorder.

    Sonically you need a digital connection from dvd to amp as well as the component video, most people seem to recommend coax digital rather than optical, but there's not much difference.

    To save buying lots of stereo interconnects I've got all RGB scart devices plugged into the TV and the stereo out on the TV plugged into the amp. The TV does the scart switching that the amp can't do.
     
  6. Tejstar

    Tejstar
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    Cheers guys for your replies. I currently have everything plugged into my plasma (quite luckily it has 3 scart sockets!)

    Just to clarify though, does that mean I’ll only a need an optical cable (the dvd recorder doesn’t have a co-axial output) between dvd & amp to get it to work (besides the speaker cables that is)?

    I don’t need component between amp & tv do I? :confused:
     
  7. imichael

    imichael
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    You don't have to have component from the amp to the screen, unless you are video switching through the amp. By the sounds of it, you will only need the optical cable for the DVD player to amp connection.

    You will need to connect the sound from sky and the video to the amp somehow - I have sky going into the DVD recorder and use that to connect to the amp. But then I also use the video switching as I am lazy enough to only want to use one control to change between video sources.
     
  8. Mango Bob

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    Yes, you'll need a cable to carry sound from the DVD player to the amp. Component video doesn't carry sound and you're connecting it directly to the screen. Scart carries sound but you can't plug scart into the amp.

    If the recorder only has a digital optical out then you need an optical cable to connect it to the amp's digital optical input.

    I *think* if you daisy-chain the scarts from sky->video->dvd recorder->tv you'll be able to record sky onto DVD/video and video onto DVD (for backups). Not sure about this though as I've not plugged my video in since having sky installed two years ago! There might be copy-protection stopping this.

    As reservoir51 said you may also want a stereo phono interconnect from DVD into the amp. I'd suggest borrowing one to see if it sounds better than the digital interconnect. The only difference is which box decodes the CD into music...digital connection means the amp does the decoding, analogue connection means the dvd player does the decoding. In my case I'm sticking with the digital connection as I figure a £350 amp probably has better DACs than an £80 dvd player.
     
  9. Tejstar

    Tejstar
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    I think I will buy a stereo interconnect to see if it makes a difference.

    Thanks guys that is very helpful - clears a lot of confusion!
     
  10. scussy

    scussy
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    i have the same system as Tej,viera 42",E85 and the YAM 750S amp,and SKY (ntl box for now but going with SKY + soon) is it best to connect component,DVD to AMP then to TV,or just DVD to the TV and with the sound i have all scarts daisy chained so do i only need optcal from dvd to the amp,or should i daisy chain the analog (red and white RCA's) sky to dvd to amp,or do both, thanks for the info,i have posted the back of the YAM 750 AMP,
    [​IMG]
     
  11. reservoir51

    reservoir51
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    I have a couple of issues with daisy-chaining. Although it may be the most convenient in terms of minimising cables, I'm not sure if the sound/picture quality won't be adversely affected. Analogue signals (whether visual or sound) do suffer from degradation the more pathways they go down. If sound or picture quality isn't something you're overly concerned with, then it shouldn't be a problem for you. But then again, remember that the point of getting a decent AV system is to maximise sound and vision. As an alternative to daisy-chaining, you can use a Scart-S-video cable or S-video-S-video cable to connect all your visual equipment to your TV or amp for vision, and decent phono interconnects between your sound sources and your amp. In relative terms, these cables are inexpensive when you take into account the amount you've spent on your entire system (including TV, DVD recorder, amp, speakers etc.).

    If the only sound connection between the DVD recorder and amp is the optical cable, then I think you may not hear any analogue sound signals from all your other equipment daisy-chained to the recorder, because I think all signals going into the recorder will be output as analogue. The only time it digitises signals is during the DVD recording (or encoding) process, which means you'll only get digital sound from the unit if your source is DVD. As such, if you're daisy-chaining, you'll certainly need analogue phono cables between your amp and recorder.

    Regards,
    reservoir51
     
  12. scussy

    scussy
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    thanks Res 51,

    the sound and the PQ is most important to me,i want the best possable,i have got my cables from mark grant and i will get some more,
    so i will get some analog phono's,

    sky into dvdr OR should i go sky into amp
    dvdr into amp


    i have MG component cable,(dvd into tv)
    i will get another and run as

    dvd into amp
    amp into tv

    at the moment the best pic is with the AV4(dvdr with IXOS ingot scart,and component)
    the next best is SKY av1 to TV av1 (RGB)
    so the component does make the diffence in my eyes,

    iam getting the bug now,i know it will be worth getting the right set up and hopefully will last the next 5 years,:thumbsup:

    i think iam getting close to the best set-up
    thanks guys great info:clap:

    steve
     
  13. reservoir51

    reservoir51
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    What is the existing connection between Sky and the DVD-recorder? If your recorder handles scart, then you could connect them via scart (to allow recording of Sky programmes on your recorder) and separately run a set of phono cables from Sky to the amp. The other advantage of not daisy-chaining is that you could avoid switching on everything to do anything. For instance, if you connect Sky directly to your TV or amp, then you do not need to switch on your recorder if you're merely watching Sky.

    As for your video connections, in my opinion running component from the DVD recorder to the TV is the best option for watching DVD. But do you really need another component from the recorder to the amp, or from the amp to the TV for that matter (unless you're intending to use the upconverson facility)? This sounds like overkill. If you're not daisy-chaining your recorder, then you could run Scart or S-video (or a cable combi of both) from Sky to TV and VCR to TV, effectively bypassing the video processing of the amp. I think the only circumstance when you need a component from amp to TV is if you're connecting all your other video sources to the amp to benefit from the convenience of upconversion. But, the picture quality here would be entirely dependent on the weakest link in the connection - ie. composite or S-video quality will still retain its quality in spite of the component 'upconversion'. If your TV can handle all the video inputs directly (from DVD, Sky and VCR), I would bypass the amp altogether as far as video is concerned. If you don't have enough inputs on your TV, then you might want to use your amp as a 'video hub' as above.

    Before making up your mind, have a little trial first. Make sure problems such as lip sync, etc. are not encountered in your set-up.

    Regards,
    reservoir51
     
  14. scussy

    scussy
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    my set-up without the yam 750 amp connected is,

    scart SKY (ntl box with 2 scarts only) av1 to TV av1
    ...................................................av2 to DVD/R in

    scart DVD/R out to TV av4

    component DVD/R out to TV

    i have no composite video or S-video connected,i think this is ok as i can watch all and tape to DVD/R on all channels,with a good picture,

    for sound i will link analog phono's DVD/R to AMP and TV to AMP
    i will also link optical DVD/R to AMP

    NTL sky box does NOT have analog or optical sound,just the 2 scarts,i will be going to SKY+ in a few weeks,

    i hope the sound side will work this way,i will leave component cable for now,

    what is the cause of lip-sync,would connecting component DVD/R to amp then to TV get rid of it,(if i get it)

    thanks again

    steve
     
  15. reservoir51

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    When your Sky+ arrives, here's what you could do :

    1) Disconnect scart connection between DVD-R and TV (not needed anymore as presumably you won't be needing your TV speakers; as for video, you already have the component between DVD-R and TV)

    2) Connect Sky+ to DVD-R via scart (sound and video sorted, for recording purposes); Sky+ to TV via S-video (video only since sound not needed); Sky+ to amp via phono (+/- optical; does Sky+ have digital sound output? I'm not sure about this. If it does, you may want to connect optical from Sky+ to your amp as well).

    As for lip-sync issues, here's a link you may find useful : http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/specsformats/AV_lip_sync_delay.html

    Essentially, the problem is one where video processing on HDTVs takes longer than audio processing, resulting in a slight discrepancy (up to 140 milliseconds) between the images and sound, with images lagging behind.
    New AV amps (thankfully, such as the Yamaha DSP-AX750) has the capability of delaying audio by up to 100ms for lip-sync problems, such that images and sound match as closely as possible. Note that if your amp processes video as well, this may add a further delay to the images on top of the delay caused by your TV, which makes it advantageous not to let your amp process video. Some satellite or cable broadcasts may also have a slight image delay, which further compounds the problem. However, you may find that your particular TV is free from lip-sync issues. If it's not, at least you'll have the ability (via your amp) to correct the problem.

    Regards,
    reservoir51
     
  16. scussy

    scussy
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    all cables for the sound side going into AMP and the speakers have been ordered,should get them by the W/E so will have a play then,
    the sound at the moment from the viera is good and clear,cannot wait to load up the 7.1 ,

    thanks

    steve
     

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