Set sub to 'yes' when no sub present? Marantz SR-6011 & Dali Opticon 2

dante01

Distinguished Member
Maybe also look at the Platinum P12300-SB.

This may even be better if it is to be located in a smaller room? It lacks the downward facing Passive Radiator found on the PR model.

This model is still available to order.

Note that you'll have to wait whichever model you choose. They make them to order.
 
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damnfinecoffee

Active Member
Just out of curiosity I replayed the problematic scenes in Dune this evening but this time at much lower volumes. Surprisingly the issue is still audible and is primarily left channel. Surely this shouldn’t be the case even without a sub?
 

rccarguy2

Distinguished Member
What time frame l check on mine
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
Have you tried pulling the speakers out and away from the wall a little to see if this helps? They are apparently rather temperamental when it comes to positioning them and getting them positioned so bass is portrayed in a pleasing manner can be tricky.

Treble can also be rather excitable at higher volume levels regardless of whether or not you are portraying an lower end frequencies.

I think it more than likely you are noticing the actual way the speakers sound partnered with your AV receiver? Marantz are a little bit warmer sounding than most though.
 
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damnfinecoffee

Active Member
Have you tried pulling the speakers out and away from the wall a little to see if this helps? They are apparently rather temperamental when it comes to positioning them and getting them positioned so bass is portrayed in a pleasing manner can be tricky.

Treble can also be rather excitable at higher volume levels regardless of whether or not you are portraying an lower end frequencies.

I think it more than likely you are noticing the actual way the speakers sound partnered with your AV receiver? Marantz are a little bit warmer sounding than most though.
I did try pulling them well away from the wall to no avail.

I’d be amazed if they are supposed to do this, it doesn’t sound good at all. It sounds more like a problem rather than a characteristic. You can hear what I assume is the material of the cone hitting against, or breaking away from, the enclosure. Plus it’s way worse from the left channel, why wouldn’t it be both? I switched the speakers over to make sure they weren’t at fault but the issue remained primarily left channel.
 

damnfinecoffee

Active Member
So I’ve discovered that disabling ‘dynamic volume’ in the audissey settings appears to either fix, or disguise, the issue. The only problem with that is, to my ear at least, everything else now sounds worse with it disabled.

It’s also no longer an issue if I completely disable the audyssey reference EQ. But obviously I don’t want to do that.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
the LFE channel would be mono in nature so it wouldn't effect one speaker and not the other. What about the other speakers, what happens if you set them as being LARGE as opposed to SMALL?

Try testing the stereo speakers by playing stereo 2 channel music. How does that sound?
 

damnfinecoffee

Active Member
the LFE channel would be mono in nature so it wouldn't effect one speaker and not the other. What about the other speakers, what happens if you set them as being LARGE as opposed to SMALL?

Try testing the stereo speakers by playing stereo 2 channel music. How does that sound?
No issues with music.

I can’t set them to small without setting sub to on.

I can set the center channel to small or large but this made no difference to the issue.
 

damnfinecoffee

Active Member
I’m certain the issue is only present when dynamic volume is enabled. I’ve just tested a bunch of scenes and it’s no longer present with this setting disabled. Looks like audyssey is doing something funky.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
No issues with music.

I can’t set them to small without setting sub to on.

I can set the center channel to small or large but this made no difference to the issue.


You can set the surrounds and the centre to SMALL. It is just the front left and right speakers that cannot be set to SMALL if there's no sub. The crossovers associated with any of the other speakers set as small will determine at what point to redirect frequencies away from those speakers and these frequrncies would be sent to your front left and right speakers if there's no sub in a setup.
 

rccarguy2

Distinguished Member
No longer have dune. Any other movies cause problems?
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
I’m certain the issue is only present when dynamic volume is enabled. I’ve just tested a bunch of scenes and it’s no longer present with this setting disabled. Looks like audyssey is doing something funky.


I'd turn DEQ (AudysseyDynamic EQ) off even if you had a sub. It makes the lower end frequencies sound overblown and makes quieter aspects of a soundtrack less audible. Audio sounds better and more balanced without DEQ.

Dynamic Volume would effect the higher end frequencies, especially those associated with dialogue and wouldn't ordinarilly effect the bass or LFE channel.
 

damnfinecoffee

Active Member
I'd turn DEQ (AudysseyDynamic EQ) off even if you had a sub. It makes the lower end frequencies sound overblown and makes quieter aspects of a soundtrack less audible. Audio sounds better and more balanced without DEQ.

Dynamic Volume would effect the higher end frequencies, especially those associated with dialogue and wouldn't ordinarilly effect the bass or LFE channel.
Sorry I mis typed. I didn’t have dynamic volume on. It was dynamic EQ that was on and causing the issue. I’ve disabled it and the problem no longer exists. Everything sounds quite flat in comparison now but I guess I’ll get used to it.

The question is, should there be an issue like that at all with dynamic EQ enabled?
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
I'm no fan of DEQ and think it over emphasises the lower frequencies and makes the audio sound biased towards the bass. It also makes the quieter aspects of a soundtrack and dialogue less audible, this is why Audyssey suggest you engage both it and Dynamic Volume as opposed to just DEQ. It sounds unatural.

Whether this is what you are hearing isn'tr clear though and I've no idea why it would effect one front speaker and not the other. Could it be highlighting a gault with that speaker?

It is often suggested that DEQ be turned off within numerous threads posted on numerous boards.
 

two2midnight

Distinguished Member
Sorry I mis typed. I didn’t have dynamic volume on. It was dynamic EQ that was on and causing the issue. I’ve disabled it and the problem no longer exists. Everything sounds quite flat in comparison now but I guess I’ll get used to it.

The question is, should there be an issue like that at all with dynamic EQ enabled?
DEQ boosts the low frequency output. Add that to speakers that can't output low frequencies and unsurprisingly you may be getting problems. If you like DEQ but want to cut down on its effect, use the reference level offset setting below it to dial it back (15db is the DEQ least effect setting through to 0 db at DEQ fully engaged) . Personally I prefer to have DEQ on.

The graph below shows what it is doing to output levels at low frequencies

1644110775114.png


Red is no dynamic eq, blue is dynamic eq on, but at 15dB reference level offset. Green is a reference level offset of 0dB.from Should you use Fletcher-Munson loudness compensation?
 
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damnfinecoffee

Active Member
I'm no fan of DEQ and think it over emphasises the lower frequencies and makes the audio sound biased towards the bass. It also makes the quieter aspects of a soundtrack and dialogue less audible, this is why Audyssey suggest you engage both it and Dynamic Volume as opposed to just DEQ. It sounds unatural.

Whether this is what you are hearing isn'tr clear though and I've no idea why it would effect one front speaker and not the other. Could it be highlighting a gault with that speaker?

It is often suggested that DEQ be turned off within numerous threads posted on numerous boards.
When I disable DEQ it sounds like all bass has been stripped from my speakers. But I understand if this personal preference.

The sound/issue I’m referring to can best be described as though someone is banging banging on the wall.
I don’t think it’s an issue with the speaker because I’ve swapped it over with the right channel and it’s still the same issue from the left.
 

damnfinecoffee

Active Member
DEQ boosts the low frequency output. Add that to speakers that can't output low frequencies and unsurprisingly you may be getting problems. If you like DEQ but want to cut down on its effect, use the reference level offset setting below it to dial it back (15db is the DEQ least effect setting through to 0 db at DEQ fully engaged) . Personally I prefer to have DEQ on.

The graph below shows what it is doing to output levels at low frequencies

View attachment 1707149

Red is no dynamic eq, blue is dynamic eq on, but at 15dB reference level offset. Green is a reference level offset of 0dB.from Should you use Fletcher-Munson loudness compensation?
Ah thank you so much! I’ve enabled DEQ and adjusted the offset. The issue is much better at 10dB but very slightly audible so I went with 15dB and it’s completely gone. It still sounds infinitely better to my ears with it enabled at this level compared to having it disabled. Much appreciated!
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
When I disable DEQ it sounds like all bass has been stripped from my speakers. But I understand if this personal preference.

The sound/issue I’m referring to can best be described as though someone is banging banging on the wall.
I don’t think it’s an issue with the speaker because I’ve swapped it over with the right channel and it’s still the same issue from the left.


Turn DEQ off and what you get will be how the audio was mixed. You've just got used to the overblown bass that resulted from applying DEQ. Listen to the quieter aspects of the audio and you'll notice details you wre losing while you were applying DEQ.

DEQ results in the audio being unbalanced and biased towards the bass.
 
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damnfinecoffee

Active Member
YTuen DWQ off and what you get will be how the audio was mixed. You've just got used to the overblown bass that resulted from applying DEQ. Listen to the quieter aspects of the audio and you'll notice details you wre losing while applting DEQ.

DEQ results in the audio being unbalanced and biased towards the bass.
I completely understand what you’re saying, and the purist in me wants to disable it.. but I feel like I’m losing more when it’s disabled than what I’m gaining when it’s enabled. It’s night and day, when I turn it off everything just sounds flat and boring. There is what sounds like little to no bass with disabled, and when enabled I wouldn’t call the bass overblown.. but that’s personal preference I suppose.
Maybe I’ll switch it off once I have a sub, but for now the difference with it enabled, to me, is like switching from your tv speakers to your bookshelf’s.
 

two2midnight

Distinguished Member
YTuen DWQ off and what you get will be how the audio was mixed. You've just got used to the overblown bass that resulted from applying DEQ. Listen to the quieter aspects of the audio and you'll notice details you wre losing while applting DEQ.

DEQ results in the audio being unbalanced and biased towards the bass.
Not according to Audyssey labs. The audio was mixed to be listened to at reference level. DEQ doesn't have any effect at reference level......

Movies are mixed in rooms calibrated for film reference. To achieve the same reference level in a home theater system each speaker level must be adjusted so that –30 dBFS band-limited (500 Hz – 2000 Hz) pink noise produces 75 dB sound pressure level at the listening position. A home theater system automatically calibrated by Audyssey MultEQ will play at reference level when the master volume control is set to the 0 dB position. At that level you can hear the mix at the same level the mixers heard it.

Audyssey Dynamic EQ is referenced to the standard film mix level. It makes adjustments to maintain the reference response and surround envelopment when the volume is turned down from 0 dB.

Q: If I understand your explanation correctly, then theoretically when watching a movie at a lower volume then 0db, Dynamic EQ should always be ON, there is no reason to set is to OFF as according to your explanation the recording will sound more authentic with Dynamic EQ ON, is that true to say? also - if I raise the volume above 0bd, will Dynamic EQ still do anything or will it be automatically disabled?

A: Your understanding is correct. Dynamic EQ should be left on. It will preserve the octave-to-octave balance of the content as you turn down the volume to make up for the changes that happen in human hearing at lower listening levels.

https://audyssey.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/212347383-Dynamic-EQ-and-Reference-Level
 
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two2midnight

Distinguished Member
I completely understand what you’re saying, and the purist in me wants to disable it.. but I feel like I’m losing more when it’s disabled than what I’m gaining when it’s enabled. It’s night and day, when I turn it off everything just sounds flat and boring. There is what sounds like little to no bass with disabled, and when enabled I wouldn’t call the bass overblown.. but that’s personal preference I suppose.
Maybe I’ll switch it off once I have a sub, but for now the difference with it enabled, to me, is like switching from your tv speakers to your bookshelf’s.
It's how it sounds to your own ears that is most important. I have 2 subs but still play movies with DEQ on.
 
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dante01

Distinguished Member
Not according to Audyssey labs.



No, according to me after listening to it. Don't particularly care what Ausyssey say and they'd be biased anyway.

I'm not alone in disliking DEQ, but it is a personal choice at the end of the day.
 

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