Seriously disappointed with Denon AVX X4700, what am I missing?

Tazman46

Novice Member
I’ve just replaced my trusty Onkyo TX NR905 with the Denon and disappointed doesn’t begin to describe it, crap gets a little nearer but not much. It’s ok with films but the Onkyo still beats it on power, control and smoothness. It’s with normal broadcasts that it goes horribly wrong, Dolby surround is ridiculously false and echoey, the sound is not steered well at all and the soundtrack is generally full of artefacts. I’ve played with all the different modes and to give some idea, the best it can sound is stereo with the subs forced to on. I cannot get my go-to reference Yello Touch DVD to come anywhere close to the 905 no matter what mode I try. I‘m using the 905 in 7.1 and the Denon in 7.2 and I set them both up using Audyssey.
I was sceptical from the moment I picked it up, the Denon is a fraction of the weight. Am I out of touch, do I need to spend significantly more to get a modern equivalent of the 905? I only changed it because I‘ve just bought a 4K tv, as you may have gathered I‘m not necessarily interested in latest and greatest but I do like a good honest realistic sound. At the moment it’s going back and I will stick with the Onkyo until such time that I can find a high end later model with ARC and 4K (suggestions welcomed!)
 
D

Deleted member 39241

Guest
It is entirely possible that you don't like the Denon sound, or that it just doesn't suit your tastes / room / speakers.

Your Onkyo does have multi channel inputs, so you could, in theory, use it as a power amp with the Denon as the pre-amp. It might be worth a try whilst you have both AVR's to hand.

Or, send the Denon back and stick to the Onkyo. Does your new TV have eARC and enough inputs for all of your devices? If so you could connect everything to the TV and use this little device to extract audio out of the eARC port of the TV and input it into an HDMI port on the Onkyo:

 

Tazman46

Novice Member
Interesting little gadget, thank you. I don’t think it’s a dislike of the sound, unless the Denon signature is contrived and totally unnatural. I‘m even wondering if it’s faulty, once I can summon up the energy to swap it all back again it will be interesting to see if I instantly feel at home again. I will live with the Denon for a couple more days to see whether if it’s an adjustment thing or if it’s as bad as I think..
 

gibbsy

Moderator
It could be that you don't like how the Denon sounds, perhaps you should give it some more time for your brain to adjust. It could be that because the Denon comes with a better room correction system, Audyssey XT32 over the basic XT that you are now hearing a cleaner audio with less room interaction.

I have a Denon X6500 and I don't really recognise the description of the audio that you are giving, but there again I'm very use to how it sounds. I do run two separate amps in my room so I know how that behaves as well.
 

Nutty667

Active Member
Going by your description, and the fact you say there are "artefacts" in the sound, it sounds to me like a defective unit, or some cables arent connected properly.
There should be no reason why a cheap Denon sounds completely bad compared to an Onkyo.
 

gibbsy

Moderator
a cheap Denon
£1400. Not exactly cheap. Although that's what I paid this time last year for a (£2200) X6500. Funny old year with prices.
 

alebonau

Well-known Member
hi @Tazman46
I’ve just replaced my trusty Onkyo TX NR905 with the Denon
no surprise actually... the denon 4700 is actually a pretty decent AV receiver...however in same league as your onkyo 905 flagship from back in the day ?

this was basically 50% power supply and a power consumption of a 1000W !

I was sceptical from the moment I picked it up, the Denon is a fraction of the weight.

I have see and heard these and they indeed had some heft not only in weight but also sound !

the denon 4700h weighs 10kg less ! and its weight is spread over driving 9 channels and with less power consumption... all this has an impact !

I‘m using the 905 in 7.1 and the Denon in 7.2 and I set them both up using Audyssey.
I was scep
audyssey will have an impact the new audyssey xt32 is far more sophisticated than the old XT. first thing is a must do is purchase the audyssey app which is only $20 and gives far more configurability and you can choose exactly the kind of sound you want...

o I need to spend significantly more to get a modern equivalent of the 905? I only changed it because I‘ve just bought a 4K tv, as you may have gathered I‘m not necessarily interested in latest and greatest but I do like a good honest realistic sound. At the moment it’s going back and I will stick with the Onkyo until such time that I can find a high end later model with ARC and 4K (suggestions welcomed!)
keep in mind the 4700h is the latest and greatest and you are paying a premium for tech.. tech you might not need in hdmi 2.1 and such.... see the note below from gibbsy ... this gives a clue ... how slightly older model... that will still do all you want and higher up in the ranks...

£1400. Not exactly cheap. Although that's what I paid this time last year for a (£2200) X6500. Funny old year with prices.
if you want a current flagship with the kind of heft looking for in the onkyo flagship, can i suggest the marantz 8012 flagship AVR on run out ? these are an utter bargain and be great if can grab one...


another option is the nad 773v3

or if denon the the x8500H which is another beasty !


ps also in the flagships the yamaha a3080
 
Last edited:

Kapkirk

Active Member
I’ve just replaced my trusty Onkyo TX NR905 with the Denon and disappointed doesn’t begin to describe it, crap gets a little nearer but not much. It’s ok with films but the Onkyo still beats it on power, control and smoothness. It’s with normal broadcasts that it goes horribly wrong, Dolby surround is ridiculously false and echoey, the sound is not steered well at all and the soundtrack is generally full of artefacts. I’ve played with all the different modes and to give some idea, the best it can sound is stereo with the subs forced to on. I cannot get my go-to reference Yello Touch DVD to come anywhere close to the 905 no matter what mode I try. I‘m using the 905 in 7.1 and the Denon in 7.2 and I set them both up using Audyssey.
I was sceptical from the moment I picked it up, the Denon is a fraction of the weight. Am I out of touch, do I need to spend significantly more to get a modern equivalent of the 905? I only changed it because I‘ve just bought a 4K tv, as you may have gathered I‘m not necessarily interested in latest and greatest but I do like a good honest realistic sound. At the moment it’s going back and I will stick with the Onkyo until such time that I can find a high end later model with ARC and 4K (suggestions welcomed!)
Hi Tazman46, I was just about to pull the trigger and buy a Denon x4700 in the coming weeks, now I'm a little worried by your findings. What do you mean by "artifacts" and I assume you mean "when watching normal broadcasts" you mean Stereo TV? Do you have the Auro 3D setting on by mistake?
I currently use an old Yamaha DSP-AX630SE in 6.1 surround, which I find to be excellent for Dolby Digital DTX etc, it also sounds very good in pro Logic ii for TV and like you have just bought a 4K TV and wanted to go to a 9.2. Atmos setup.
I have all my HD Sources plugged in to my TV and just recently ran an optical cable from the TV to the amp which seems to work just fine. The TV seems to pass all the Dolby surround and DTX tracks on nearly everything I watch including netflix and Amazon Prime so am now wondering if it's really worth splashing out £1400 on a new amp like the Denon just for 2 height atmos speakers.
 

alebonau

Well-known Member
Hi Tazman46, I was just about to pull the trigger and buy a Denon x4700 in the coming weeks, now I'm a little worried by your findings. What do you mean by "artifacts" and I assume you mean "when watching normal broadcasts" you mean Stereo TV? Do you have the Auro 3D setting on by mistake?
I currently use an old Yamaha DSP-AX630SE in 6.1 surround, which I find to be excellent for Dolby Digital DTX etc, it also sounds very good in pro Logic ii for TV and like you have just bought a 4K TV and wanted to go to a 9.2. Atmos setup.
this is probably a good question ... since if the OP is using dolby surround upmixer the latest release of this from dolby has been identified to contain a bug so 2.0 signals are not upmixed all that well...sending voice into all channels and that sort of thing. wells acknowledged by them and they are rolling out a fix, working with the OEMs to provide the fix later this year. the good news is ... you can utilise either DTS neural X or Auro3d and in both cases they are very good.

I used to use PLIIX back in the day and happily used dolby surround last 4-5 years.. its only the current release has the bug...but been using myself neural X and auro3D. auro3D is really good for music... neural X seems to work really well for streaming as much of streaming is PCM 2.0 :)
 

alebonau

Well-known Member
I have all my HD Sources plugged in to my TV and just recently ran an optical cable from the TV to the amp which seems to work just fine. The TV seems to pass all the Dolby surround and DTX tracks on nearly everything I watch including netflix and Amazon Prime so am now wondering if it's really worth splashing out £1400 on a new amp like the Denon just for 2 height atmos speakers.
if you can find one as pointed above you might be better off buying a super ceded model up ? as better value.. you are paying predominately for cutting edge hdmi 2.1 which likely wont use....
 
I’ve just replaced my trusty Onkyo TX NR905 with the Denon and disappointed doesn’t begin to describe it, crap gets a little nearer but not much. It’s ok with films but the Onkyo still beats it on power, control and smoothness. It’s with normal broadcasts that it goes horribly wrong, Dolby surround is ridiculously false and echoey, the sound is not steered well at all and the soundtrack is generally full of artefacts. I’ve played with all the different modes and to give some idea, the best it can sound is stereo with the subs forced to on. I cannot get my go-to reference Yello Touch DVD to come anywhere close to the 905 no matter what mode I try. I‘m using the 905 in 7.1 and the Denon in 7.2 and I set them both up using Audyssey.
I was sceptical from the moment I picked it up, the Denon is a fraction of the weight. Am I out of touch, do I need to spend significantly more to get a modern equivalent of the 905? I only changed it because I‘ve just bought a 4K tv, as you may have gathered I‘m not necessarily interested in latest and greatest but I do like a good honest realistic sound. At the moment it’s going back and I will stick with the Onkyo until such time that I can find a high end later model with ARC and 4K (suggestions welcomed!)
Sounds like a set up /settings issue. Get the Multi EQ app and re run the Audyssey, make sure you have all the Dynamic EQ and Dynamic volume gubbins turned off. Avoid the DSP effects such as "virtual".
 
D

Deleted member 39241

Guest
I found a similar thing with my Denon 4400, whatever I did with Audyssey I couldn't get rid of weird sounding artefacts in speech when using it to correct a peak on my centre speaker. Moving to an AVR with Dirac fixed the issue.

I also used a number of power amps with my Denon 4400 and a separate stereo amp with HT bypass. It didn't seem to have enough power to drive my speakers properly on it's own.
 

Kapkirk

Active Member
Tazman46 Do you have any updates, tried anything to rectify the sound or are you sending it back?
 

Adziadam

Active Member
the x4700 measures well for an AV receiver and got a recommendation from amir at Denon AVR-X4700 AVR Review (Updated)

If you believe that amps have their own sound you are probably noticing a difference in EQ between the models. It would be worth researching here how to get the most out of auddessy



It will require purchase of the APP ofc so you can customise the EQ but xt32 is a step up from the normal eq when i had my demon x2600h and i switched to my x4500h it sounded a lot better.
 

Tazman46

Novice Member
Everyone, massive apologies, to start with I was getting Mail every time someone posted on this thread, once they stopped I assumed it had died so didn’t bother revisiting. Update then: So I sent the amp back, it was unlistenable on normal broadcasts when in Dolby Surround, because of the weirdly steered voices and the spitting that punctuated surround affects; someone further up said this could be a software fault rather than hardware, sounds entirely plausible, I will never know now.
I bought an Onkyo TX -NR3030 and everything that I didn’t like about the Denon has disappeared, sound is natural again, processed modes are useful and it’s plenty heavy enough! If I have one regret it’s that I didn’t pick up on the difference between eARC and ARC, sync bothers me hugely if it’s even a fraction out. For some reason the 905 had it spot on regardless of source, I suspect this is because it couldn’t process 4K so the issue didn’t arise, I’m not sure. I bought 2 more ‘eggs‘ and have it set up in 5.2.4 using high fronts and rears, this is a whole new world but tbh, I could still happily live with my old set up, I now realise how good it was / is.
 

Tazman46

Novice Member
Hi Tazman46, I was just about to pull the trigger and buy a Denon x4700 in the coming weeks, now I'm a little worried by your findings. What do you mean by "artifacts" and I assume you mean "when watching normal broadcasts" you mean Stereo TV? Do you have the Auro 3D setting on by mistake?
I currently use an old Yamaha DSP-AX630SE in 6.1 surround, which I find to be excellent for Dolby Digital DTX etc, it also sounds very good in pro Logic ii for TV and like you have just bought a 4K TV and wanted to go to a 9.2. Atmos setup.
I have all my HD Sources plugged in to my TV and just recently ran an optical cable from the TV to the amp which seems to work just fine. The TV seems to pass all the Dolby surround and DTX tracks on nearly everything I watch including netflix and Amazon Prime so am now wondering if it's really worth splashing out £1400 on a new amp like the Denon just for 2 height atmos speakers.
I posted a general response and having re-read your post, I suspect the answer is no. In fact, reading your set up configuration, I am going to try doing things that way round with all the sources going into the TV instead. The problem is it’s impossible to try the 4700 to experience Atmos without going to additional extraordinary lengths, imo, be thankful for what you got 😉.
 

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