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Sequel sequel sequel remake next gen update etc etc

dannius

Prominent Member
Some of the games that have been shown at e3 so far this year do look superb, really great stuff. But am I the only one who feels a little like it's all yesterdays games in new clothes?

This is not specific to 360 but across all the formats, I mean we have new entries in the Forza franchise, L4D, Halo, MGS, Final Fantasy, Mario Galaxy, Metroid, Call of Duty, Gran Turismo, Crackdown, Resident Evil, Wii Sports, Splinter Cell, God of War, Castlevania...

I'm not saying there are no new IP's out there, Infamous is out, Agent and Shadow Complex have been announced and Alan Wake looks the dogs, but there seems such a small amount of fresh new games announced compared to sequels and the like.

Any other interesting new game announcements i've missed?
 

Stinja

Distinguished Member
Yep, my big complaint for this entire generation of games, even the Wii's "innovative" control scheme is often just tacked onto old IP and gameplay.

I think the problem is devs are struggling to think of new stuff, i mean new real gameplay ideas, so even new IP is just characters or settings but essentially a skin over an older game. Maybe we need new input methods like Natal to allow new ideas to be explored? Or more CPU grunt to allow really great AI and realistic world/physics (i dont mean graphics, but imagine walking into a cartoon kitchen and being able to interact with everything like a real kitchen).

Have we explored all the possibilities of consoles with a button/stick-controller? Is it just the economics of gaming making devs play it safe? It's sure not like C64 or even PS1 days where there was something genuinely new every month making your brain explode... so here we are with infinite sequels to established franchises, or remakes of old games with a coat of new paint. I dont think being an older gamer helps, i've played just about everything ever, so its hard for a game to really feel fresh to me.

I try to support any game which tries to push things a bit, but sadly i feel like i'm in the minority, and all people really do want is the next FIFA/Maddon/Halo/Need For Speed :rolleyes:
 

Satsui_Ryu

Distinguished Member
Basically, it's the old hollywood complex. Why take the chance on a new IP when a sequel is a guaranteed money-maker. Compare the sales of Dead Space to Call of Duty World at War and you'll see why it's happening. There's plenty of original ideas out there, it's just that the corporations that would fund those ideas aren't willing to take the risk, mostly.
 

Stream62

Prominent Member
Agree that there are a lot of remakes / sequals this year.. a lot of them in well loved franchises that loads of people are wanting to see more of.

I think it is probably partly a reflection on the world economy with companies not wanting to risk too much money on a new concept or title and aiming their development towards titles they know will bring in the money.

Hopefully in a year or so the big developers may have a little more money to throw around and can develop new ideas then... although as long as they do continue to work with the big franchises as I love some of those games and they are popular for very good reasons.
 

Hillskill

Moderator/Games Reviewer
You could list just as many new games to be honest, the sequels and "next in series" get the attention just because they already have a reputation as being great.

Heavy Rain, God of War 3 (new IP), Dantes Inferno, Splinter Cell Conviction (New Ip), Agent, Shadow Complex, Alan Wake etc......
 

Kootuu

Established Member
You could list just as many new games to be honest, the sequels and "next in series" get the attention just because they already have a reputation as being great.

Heavy Rain, God of War 3 (new IP), Dantes Inferno, Splinter Cell Conviction (New Ip), Agent, Shadow Complex, Alan Wake etc......

Not sure if God of War or Splinter Cell count as New IP really or just not seen on this generation of console but I think you're right there is plenty of new stuff coming out.
 

Hillskill

Moderator/Games Reviewer
Not sure if God of War or Splinter Cell count as New IP really or just not seen on this generation of console but I think you're right there is plenty of new stuff coming out.

Well if they are both games built from scratch then surely they qualify as "new games". Not trying to kill the thread but 5 months from now we will be off our faces on quality games just like last year. Can't wait :clap:
 

Stream62

Prominent Member
I think with god of war and splinter cell, even with rebuilt games, they are using the franchise to help the sales on them.

It's a good point that the big franchises are bound to get more hype and hog the limelight a little more because of the established fan base.

I don't however see it as a particularyly bad thing to get sequels or remakes, as I said earlier these games sold well because of some very good reasons and more of the same is definitely welcome in my eyes.
 

Kootuu

Established Member
I think with god of war and splinter cell, even with rebuilt games, they are using the franchise to help the sales on them.

It's a good point that the big franchises are bound to get more hype and hog the limelight a little more because of the established fan base.

I don't however see it as a particularyly bad thing to get sequels or remakes, as I said earlier these games sold well because of some very good reasons and more of the same is definitely welcome in my eyes.

100% agree, but I do wonder what the impact of sequels has on the user base the game has already generated. It seems a shame that when MW2 comes out, the user base will have to move over to the new game just because everyone else is. Maybe map packs/updates to existing games would be a better choice in the long run to help keep the communities together for longer.

Maybe I'm just looking at it from a multiplayer perspective though.
 

Hillskill

Moderator/Games Reviewer
Splinter Cell has been floating about for a while. In its first incarnation it got gunned for looking like a modern day Assasins Creed. Fair play to Ubisoft for literally scrapping the whole lot and starting again from scratch. Theres no getting away from the fact its another in a long line of Splinter Cell games but no one can accuse the Devs of following some kind of SC formula and churning it out factory style. Don't get me wrong it could be an utter stinker but the evidence is there that Ubisoft have treated it like a "new game".
 

Hillskill

Moderator/Games Reviewer
100% agree, but I do wonder what the impact of sequels has on the user base the game has already generated. It seems a shame that when MW2 comes out, the user base will have to move over to the new game just because everyone else is. Maybe map packs/updates to existing games would be a better choice in the long run to help keep the communities together for longer.

Maybe I'm just looking at it from a multiplayer perspective though.

As a slight fan of the COD games I can say hand on heart that no COD fanboy will see it as shame they have to buy MW2. They will all be queuing round the block for it.
The old COD games won't suddenly stop working after all. If your a die hard COD5 fan then fine, you can crack on with the 10 odd in game MP maps and the 2 map packs that have since been released.
 

Stream62

Prominent Member
Maybe map packs/updates to existing games would be a better choice in the long run to help keep the communities together for longer.

Not sure that just map pack etc (although more are always welcome) would work for the franchises, it would help with the longevity but would stiffle any development or improvements in graphics, interfaces etc that can come with each new episode.

Splinter Cell has been floating about for a while. In its first incarnation it got gunned for looking like a modern day Assasins Creed.

Would have loved that as AS was great!

Fair play to Ubisoft for literally scrapping the whole lot and starting again from scratch. Theres no getting away from the fact its another in a long line of Splinter Cell games but no one can accuse the Devs of following some kind of SC formula and churning it out factory style. Don't get me wrong it could be an utter stinker but the evidence is there that Ubisoft have treated it like a "new game".

Didn't know they'd reinventited it that much, i'm sure the 'Splinter Cell' franchise will help it sell, I wonder how much different is it going to be from previous incarnations? (played a couple and loved them early on in then got a little bored after the 3rd or 4th one).
 

daveon

Established Member
I was thinking about this the other day, from a slightly different angle though.

Why do we accept the the first release of a franchise will often be a "flawed masterpiece", games that promise so much and deliver on 75% of that promise.

Generally speaking the 2nd release in the franchise will match that promise and then we are hooked on title and buy the next version and so on.

As case in point, AC, promised to be awesome, in reality it was very good but flawed in a number of key areas.
The devs seem to have taken this into account and AC2 looks like it will be all we hoped AC would be, plus a little more (two hidden blade... SWEET).

Splinter Cell 1 was brilliant, but it took them to the 3rd one to really nail it. They then tried to go an new direction with double agent and it didn't really work (for me anyway) however conviction looks like they have sorted it.

Time and time again though we get a new IP which could be brilliant but we all seem to think it is okay for it to be average as long as the next version hits the mark, so effectively we pay £80 for the game we really wanted (buying the 1st and 2nd releases)

Prototype comes out next week and I so hope that they deliver from the off.

As to why devs plough effort into squeals and next gen updates, they know we want more of the same when they do get it right, look on any official forum and you will see within days of the games release, "what do you want to see in the next version" threads.
 

Kootuu

Established Member
As a slight fan of the COD games I can say hand on heart that no COD fanboy will see it as shame they have to buy MW2. They will all be queuing round the block for it.
The old COD games won't suddenly stop working after all. If your a die hard COD5 fan then fine, you can crack on with the 10 odd in game MP maps and the 2 map packs that have since been released.

Don't get me wrong, I'm looking forward to MW2 as much as anybody, but I remember the changes between say Quake II/Quake III and Tribes 2/Tribes Vengeance. Absolutely loved those games, but the next version changed the dynamics of the game too much and the community split.

I'm sure IW won't let that happen with MW2 though, just wondering if full retail games year after year is the future :) Maybe this example/question is better suited to something like FIFA which really does not need a full retail game each year. I'll still buy it tho :p
 

daveon

Established Member
Maybe this example/question is better suited to something like FIFA which really does not need a full retail game each year. I'll still buy it tho :p

Actually that's a point it's taken EA 17 iterations to get FIFA right.
 

Stream62

Prominent Member
I agree it is often the case that the first release of a game is not the best one however in a lot of these games the first one is excellent and it must take the companies some time to develop new ideas (some of which come from the community playing the game) and understand how to recreate them in the games. (obviously some of the bugs etc can be excluded from that as they should be tested and discovered beforehand where possible).

I suppose here the development time will play a part and they can't get everything into the same release without major delays which money and the public with complain about!
 

Billy Goodgun

Distinguished Member
I would argue Castlevania: Lords of Shadow is a new IP - for a start, it looks like it's not a platform game any more, and more a 3D hack 'n' slash game in the mould of Ninja Gaiden 2 or DMC4. And again, Halo: Reach is probably a new IP. No-one's sure yet, but it looks like it might be squad-based and tactical as opposed to being Halo 4.

Alan Wake has been mentioned already, and that's new.

But the thing is, most truly innovative titles won't be AAA titles; they'll be a lot lighter on budget, and more likely from independent devs. Hence the lack of new IPs at E3.

I am happy for a mix: I like new and refreshing titles, anything from "Flower" on PSN to "Braid" on Arcade, but I also want better instalments of games I like. I don't see too much wrong with improving games that are already damn fine - Valve is looking to do that with Left 4 Dead 2, for example.

For all that I hate the GoW2 lag-fest, I still wanted the game released by Epic, and I think a lot of the changes Epic tried to make were good. It's just the lag; the core gameplay is still solid. OK, so the smoke grenades didn't work, but wall-tagging and being able to crawl while downed are all worthwhile changes in my eyes.
 

dannius

Prominent Member
Yeah I wasn't saying sequels are a bad thing, or modern updates of old games, i'm a big fan of the improvements that have been made in some sequels. It just surprises me how rarely new IP's get developed these days.

Saying that I bet I will be first in the queue for Forza 3! :rolleyes:
 

dannius

Prominent Member
what can game developers do???? name me one game they can make that isnt a sequel or just a rehash of an older game?

Off the top of my head, Infamous. Ok so it's not completely original, but it's not a sequel or remake. But games like that are the exception rather than the rule nowadays.

Like I said i'm not against sequels or remakes, would just like to see more new ideas.
 

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