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Seleco 350 CRT question

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by gingellr, Jan 12, 2003.

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  1. gingellr

    gingellr
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    Hello,

    I currently own a Seleco SVP-350P.

    I have a couple of questions if you can help.

    It has amongst others 5 bnc connections R,G,B, H-sync,V-sync. As these are sperate connections are they therfore the same as component inputs? If not how does RGB, differ from component inputs.


    I am looking at selling it at the moment (in the classifiedes on here), and to replace it with a sharp xv-z90e DLP projector assuming that i will get a much better picture quality, would the quality be alot better with the DLP projector?

    Thanks in advance.
     
  2. Chris Frost

    Chris Frost
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    If the sockets on your 350 are also marked up Y, R-Y, B-Y, then the projector has Component input.

    The differences between RGB and Component:

    RGB is three versions of the same picture - one Red, one Green, one Blue, plus a timing signal. If you connect the timing signal and then connect any of the colour cables you would get that colour picture displayed.

    RGB is good for transmission between equipment because it needs very little processing. It is a poor choice for recording because it takes up so much tape/disc space as you record three times the amount of information as a B&W signal.


    Component is a Black & White signal with timing information, plus two cables for "colour difference" signals.

    Plug in the B&W cable (a.k.a. Y or Luminance) and you'll get a B&W picture.

    Component is a more compact signal format which makes it a better choice for recording. It needs processing circuitry to convert it back to RGB ready for display.

    It is possible to upgrade a 350 to Component input (speak to OWL on 01825 766123) or use an Component to RGB convertor.

    The Sharp is rated at 600 ANSI, its resolution is 800x600 pixels, and they quote 1200:1 contrast (though it isn't said how that is measured).

    Will it be better? That depends on what you are looking for.

    If you like strong colours I think you'll be impressed by the DLP image. You may notice that skin tones and black level from your 350 were better (assuming it was properly set up of course). For brightness I think the CRT will have it, though I don't know how hard yours has been driven.

    You should really get a demo before making a big commitment like this.

    Good luck
     
  3. gingellr

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    Thanks Chris for your reply.

    Is there any cable length issues with either RGB or Component?
    As my cable run is about 20Metres, im currently just using an S-Video conection.

    Also you say if it was properly set up. It was installed professionaly, and i have in the past adjusted the pots so that the 3 colour grids are lined up all over the screen, is this what you mean or is there more to it than that.

    I think the picture qualiity is quite good but do get some slight colour bleeding somtimes on faces with dark shadows, is this normal?
     
  4. Chris Frost

    Chris Frost
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    10 mtrs is usually considered the maximum you can go with S-Video. Longer runs do cause problems. I had a 30 mtr run of XLO S-video cable that I tried once, results not good at all at that length, but fabulous at 10 mtrs.

    Component or RGB no such problems. With a good quality low loss cable you should be able to run 30 or 40 mtrs no problem.

    Convergence is just one part of the set-up procedure. Getting the picture settings correct (contrast brightness etc) can really help lift a picture from just ordinary to very good.

    Search for a thread from Arthur.S called Projector Setup - An Apology from someone in a similar situation to you.
     
  5. gingellr

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    Hello Chris,

    Thanks again for that, checked the thread i feel the same about my CRT that it is about 80% of what it should be.

    I upgraded from a 5ft to a 6ft Screen about a year ago, the guy who moved the projector back to fit the new screen seemed to have no idea about setting it up, I did a better job myself afterwards but its not as good as LCD's i have seen and everyone says CRTs are supposed to be better but i assumed as the 350 is a lower end model so it would not be as good.

    It does apear that the convergence is slightly out sometimes but the grid patten appears ok, Is there any other setup that could affect that problem.

    I have seen other people talk about the calibration line problem, they say its white, mine is atcually 3 coloured lines. Which is on the casing in 4:3 mode, on 16:9 i have set it up that the picture starts at the top of the screen rather than in the middle so the lines are again on the casing not on the screen as this is the mode i use mainly.

    I am thinking of changing it so that the 4:3 picture fits in to the 16:9 screen by using the size settings, if i do this it puts the convergence out which i could trim out. Is this ok to do or could it damage the projector in anyway as in theroy the projector should be closer to provide that size image.

    According to the thread you pointed me too and my own experince it seems that it is luck of the draw if you get a good installation engineer.

    Therefor, If i decide to keep it, are you still involved with setting up CRT's and do you think it would make a lot of difference if you had a go at it? If so what would you charge to come to Milton Keynes?

    Sorry for the long post.
     
  6. Chris Frost

    Chris Frost
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    This is a common problem simply because few home cinema dealers get enough hands-on experience with CRT. Those that do tend to be in high demand.


    I don't think I have ever tried that with a 350. I wonder if it would work?

    Regards
     
  7. AndyFov

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    I run a 350 with a 4:3 screen.

    If you've got three different coloured AKB lines, and not a white one the pj isn't converged properly. When it's spot on they're meant to overlap.

    I initially found the lines to be a problem, though they're projected above the screen in 4:3 mode. I managed to dabble with the deflection settings to raise the whole image in 16:9 modes so the top of a 16:9 frame is at the top of my screen, and that irritating line is projected out of sight & mind in my installation.

    I'd stick with the CRT IIWY. Soldier on with the convergence, treat it like a challenging jig-saw, and I'm sure you'll crack it in the end. It took me a while to get mine right, but it's worth it in the end.

    Andy
     
  8. Chris Frost

    Chris Frost
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    I visited gingellr this week and we tried it. Unfortunately the 350 convergence board design won't let you do this. The 4:3 and 16:9 convergences share some common controls. Having 4:3 so compressed that it fits inside a 16:9 projection screen affects the 16:9 convergence.

    Even if we could have done it there would have been another side effect of course. Any 4:3 Letterbox films (Widescreen non-anamorphics like Pulp Fiction, The Abyss, Armageddon and many of the early Disney releases) would appear really small - on a 6ft screen a 1.85:1 Letterboxed image would be about 3ft wide by about 1.6ft high. It would never fill the entire screen.

    Apart from this the projector set up really nicely. We played some stuff from Fifth Element (NTSC), Shawshank Redemption and Gladiator (both PAL). The image was sharp and had good definition and colour.

    Thanks for your hospitality Richard (gingellr). I'll take you up on that offer of a beer next time I'm in M.K. We'll also give your PAL convergence a bit of a tweak because theres a little bit more to come from that.

    Regards
     
  9. henry1234

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    Chris,

    This is a bit of a cheat but can you check your PM. I want to recommend you to the lady buying my Seleco projector tomorrow.

    (not that kind of recommendation!!;)
     
  10. Chris Frost

    Chris Frost
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    henry1234

    YGM

    Regards
     
  11. gingellr

    gingellr
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    Chris,

    No problem, it was nice to meet you.

    I Found it a very interesting evening. Thanks again for staying so late, much appreciated.

    Watched a few films since your visit. The quality now is the best i have ever seen it. The Focus now is so sharp and can see much more detail and colour is much more realistic. Just watched the extended version of Leon (NTSC). Also watched a 4:3 letter box film earlier, looked great with the reduced 4:3 mode you set up to display on my widescreen pretty much filled the whole screen with none of the picture cut off.

    NTSC definately gives a slightly better picture than PAL.
    The only thing i have noticed generally (more noticeable in PAL) is that in a dark scene with say bright orange or blue this sometimes bleeds in to a shadow or each other. Noticed it more on ET (my girlfreind wanted to watch it not me honest)

    Is this normal in CRT's or because mine is a lower end Projector. Or could it be down to my signal feed (20 Mtrs on Svideo). I will try and get time to hook it up with an RGB cable tomorow night to see if it makes a difference.

    Thanks again Chirs and definately contact me when you are next in MK and we will go for that beer!


    Richard
     
  12. gingellr

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    Well, tonight i tried a temporary RGB scart cable.

    The difference is an unbelivable improvement.
    No colour bleed at all and just the picture is generally so much better.

    Where before i noticed slight blues in shadows, now it is shades of black with great detail and colours again are much more vibrant

    Its like a totally different projector.

    Just cant believe that the S-video connection was so bad in comparison, it is a relatively good quality cable.

    So with the conversion that Chirs has done an sending it an RGB signal i am very pleased with the final result.

    Should have tried the RGB years ago, oh well you live and learn


    Just though i would share my findings.

    Richard
     
  13. AndyFov

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    I'm currently undecided which way to go with mine. I have a 350 without a component input.

    I'm currently using S vid for the dvd player, composite for the digibox, and RGB scart for the Gamecube. Having an amp which does video switching seems to be a bit pointless to me!

    Anyway, as the one thing all devices have in common is an RGB output, I'm toying with the idea of having a scart switch, then a 10M scart to scart hooked up to the projector. I just don't know whether the improvement in image quality is going to justify the expense & hassle involved of installing the switch. Would anyone advise it?

    Also, is there any way to get the Seleco to default to a particular input when switched on? Mine defaults to the tuner every time, but at least that's not quite so bad now I've got an aerial connected to it. :)

    Andy
     
  14. gingellr

    gingellr
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    In my experience there is no question but to go RGB.

    I too have a digibox, (no gamecube though) which will pass RGB signal from its second scart socket so you could link your DVD into that and not then have a scart switch. If the game cube or dvd has not got a pass through RGB as well then you could only hook up two of the units though.

    Why not try what i did and use a shorter scart lead and put your dvd close to the projector and see if you think it is worth the expense of a long scart etc.

    The only thing im not sure of, my results was using a 5M scart cable, i would need a 15M cable to connected it in permanently and not sure if the extra length would have any effect.

    The cable im considering is the letropacks prolink £60 for 11M + £10 for each additional metre. Seems a good cable but appriciate any experince anyone has with it.

    Richard
     
  15. Chris Frost

    Chris Frost
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    Hi Richard,
    I'm pleased to read that RGB is working out well for you :)

    On the subject of cable quality, an RGB signal is simply three composite cables plus one or two extra conductors for the timing signals. It is a really robust signal format. Wrapping it all up in a SCART cable should make no difference as long as it has good shielding.

    Regards
     
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