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seems like the Argies will never let go of the Malivinas

la gran siete

Distinguished Member
check this petition out
http://www.petitiononline.com/malvinas/

maybe we should have them back after all they must very expensive for us to maintain and will always be sitting ducks so when he Argies have licked their wounds enough and built their armaments, they may well have another go .Next time they probably wont lose so avoid humilation as happened in 1806/1807 lets hand them back shall we?Only a couple of rocks after all
 

eric pisch

Distinguished Member
check this petition out
http://www.petitiononline.com/malvinas/

maybe we should have them back after all they must very expensive for us to maintain and will always be sitting ducks so when he Argies have licked their wounds enough and built their armaments, they may well have another go .Next time they probably wont lose so avoid humilation as happened in 1806/1807 lets hand them back shall we?Only a couple of rocks after all

Good point

Pre emptive strikes against all argantine military and civil infrastructure systems are therefore needed to stop this threat against British sovereignty now !

Those rocks are potentially worth trillions if oil is ever discovered in that area.
 

Stephen Wilde

Established Member
What happened to the concept of self determination ?

Argentina as it now is did not exist when the settlers occupied the uninhabited islands.

If the islanders wanted to join Argentina we would not stop them. Argentina should also respect their wishes.
 

Ed Selley

Hi-Fi Editor
Hand- no.

Sell for £10,000,000 per islander- yes.
 

la gran siete

Distinguished Member
What happened to the concept of self determination ?

Argentina as it now is did not exist when the settlers occupied the uninhabited islands.

If the islanders wanted to join Argentina we would not stop them. Argentina should also respect their wishes.
they declared independence from Spain in 1810, the Malvinas were invaded once again by the uk in the 1830s who promptly got rid of the Argentine settlers who were there
 

dBrowne

Prominent Member
Without going into the rights and wrongs of who did what to whom back when, what is the appropriate period of time for a claim to territory, on which you no longer have anyone of your own tribe, for it be considered too far in the past to be still worthy of pursuit? Is this not also a question that could be asked of the remaining indigenous tribes of Argentina?
 

Stephen Wilde

Established Member
they declared independence from Spain in 1810, the Malvinas were invaded once again by the uk in the 1830s who promptly got rid of the Argentine settlers who were there

Well, if the Islanders obtained their freedom from Spain what has it got to do with Argentina ?

As dBrowne implies it was all long enough ago for the Islanders own wishes to now be paramount.

Otherwise, to be logically consistent, the Argentinians would now be obliged to give Argentina back to the original pre conquest inhabitants.
They can't have it both ways.
 

la gran siete

Distinguished Member
One can see from this Facebook group that feelings run high amongst some of them
http://www.facebook.com/wall.php?id=7575039187&page=1&hash=e54b0737733f887e0714693afac2b47a

The Wall
Displaying 10 of 277 wall posts.Write Something|See All

Don Maico wrote
at 7:53am
hombre no conoces nada del los ingleses. Que hay para odiar? Argentinos /ingleses somos todos,seres humanos nada mas.Boludos hay en los dos paises Los que creyeron que la guerra fue justificado, son boludos. Los que desean la paz ,las buenas relaciones y no se preucupan sobre dos rocas en el mar son realistas.

mano de dios?? Eso es historia. Maradona ha jugado en partidos amistosos en Inglaterra
Delete

Martin Mongiat (Argentina) wrote
at 10:27pm yesterday
The Hand Of God mother ****er...
Con ese mensaje lo unico que mostraste es que sos parte de los ingleses que destesto...
Lamentablemente tenes una parte de argentino... Me da verguenza saber que alguien asi nacio en mi pais...
Report

Don Maico wrote
at 9:43am yesterday
I am sorry but the Falklands will not be given to Argentina . Not at least for another 100 years or so or until the people who live there wish to become Argentine which, at the moment, they dont
The British Falklands
Delete

Silvia Noemí Córdoba (Argentina) wrote
at 4:10pm on May 4th, 2008
Somos hasta el momento 48 personas que hemos firmado el petitorio para reclamar por nuestras Malvinas. Acaso en este grupo no somos 2.641 personas? Los invito a firmar y reclamar por lo que es nuestro desde siempre. A no quedarse! Inviten también en otros grupos a todo aquel que quiera colaborar ya que cada firma cuenta. Saludos argentos. LAS MALVINAS FUERON , SON Y SERÁN ARGENTINAS
Report

Silvia Noemí Córdoba (Argentina) wrote
at 2:54pm on May 4th, 2008
Toda la razón para vos
María Eugenia, gente así se dedica solamente a revolver el avispero, como quien dice y no aporta nada positivo. A palabras necias oídos sordos. Y me sumo al petitorio que si nosotros no reclamamos por lo nuestro, nadie lo hará. LAS MALVINAS SON ARGENTINAS. Le pese a quien le pese.
Report

Don Maico wrote
at 10:33am on May 4th, 2008
Señores,el orgullo que yo tengo es de ser un angloargentino,europeo ser humano y cuidadano del mundo .Aqui en esta pieza tengo recuerdos argentinos como un mate photos de Jujuy ,Salta y San Martin de los Andes,un poncho y una bandrea celeste y blanca que a vezes se encuentra en mi jardin, Tengo tambiem una camiseta de futbol argentino que pongo sin problemas,Nadie me da bronca, No soy hincha pero es mi forma de decir al mundo que , que a pesar de mi accento,no soy totalmente ingles.
Cada año voy an asado en Londres done se congregan argentinos y angloargentinos. Es la unica ocasion que tengo durante el año para charlar con un otro como yo. Nunca se habla la querra porque todos entedemos uqe hay cosas de mas importancia. Ojala un dia ustedes tambien entederan eso.El mundo se cambia cada dia y el patritismo exagerado - que se vaya a la mierda!
Delete

Don Maico wrote
at 10:17am on May 4th, 2008
lo que no tiene razon es ue ustedes se preocupan sobre dos islas cuando hay tanto lio en su pais, que con la corrupcion ,mania de la viveza y situacion economica causado por los incompetentes.Arreglen su pais y acaben de gritar al mundo que Argentina es el mejor pais porque no lo es.Cada uno tiene sus faltas,mejor no existe.Lo que la falta al orgulloso es la humilidad.Lo que me doy cuenta es que ustedes no son tan patriotas mas patrioteristas y, posiblemente, nacionalistas tambien.Esos tipos existen agui tambien y les digo que me dio mucho azco ver las celebraciones inglesas al fin de la guerra Claro que es imposible razonar con ellos como es co ustedes porquie creen que fue una querra correcta, la invasion tenia que ser expulsada y los derechos de los isleros manetnido como siempre. Todo sobre dos rocas eb el mar lleno de ovejas y pinguinos.
Delete

Silvia Noemí Córdoba (Argentina) wrote
at 11:26pm on May 3rd, 2008
Jaja Martín, toda la razón.
Report

Martin Mongiat (Argentina) wrote
at 8:56pm on May 3rd, 2008
Y señor, su falta de patriotismo es horrible... "Dos islas que no valen la pena", les vendria bien que les quiten un pedazo de suelo parte del suyo para ver qué se siente... Pero bueno... Esta bien... Me cago en Peron, en la prostituta de Evita en los K y en Inglaterra, a pesar de que tengo muchos amigos ingleses...
Y aclaro lo de Peron, porque en ese comentario tiene absoluta razon... Pero bueno, es nuestra culpa... Nosotros votamos a un milico, a una prostituta, a un riojano narcotraficante, a una ladrona con sueños de convertir su capital en Paris... Es culpa nuestra...

I tried reasoning with them but according to Martin my lack patriotism is horrible, the part of me that is Argentine shames him, plus he hates the type of English who glory in taking what isnt theirs in the first place
 

la gran siete

Distinguished Member
Well, if the Islanders obtained their freedom from Spain what has it got to do with Argentina ?

As dBrowne implies it was all long enough ago for the Islanders own wishes to now be paramount.

Otherwise, to be logically consistent, the Argentinians would now be obliged to give Argentina back to the original pre conquest inhabitants.
They can't have it both ways.

No Argentina did, the islanders settled in the Falklands much later
 

pjclark1

Prominent Member
What happened to the concept of self determination ?

Maybe we could ask Northern Ireland/Scotland/Wales/The Channel Islands/The Scillys that same question.
I'd quite like independence for Cornwall (stop all those tourists and nationalise all the holiday homes)
 

Stephen Wilde

Established Member
Maybe we could ask Northern Ireland/Scotland/Wales/The Channel Islands/The Scillys that same question.
I'd quite like independence for Cornwall (stop all those tourists and nationalise all the holiday homes)

Don't they all (except the Scillies and Cornwall) have a level of self determination chosen by themselves already ?
 

Stephen Wilde

Established Member
No Argentina did, the islanders settled in the Falklands much later

Let's have a bit more of a history lesson then, no point my guessing or checking the web if you've got the data.

Nevertheless the point raised by dBrowne is the important one.

Have the present residents been there long enough to have a say in their future without the threat of military force ?

I'd say they have.
 

Sonic67

Banned
Falklands were first named as such from an expedition led by John Strong in 1690, who named the islands after his patron, Anthony Cary, 5th Viscount Falkland.

The Falkland Islanders themselves are almost entirely British and maintain their allegiance to the United Kingdom. More than some of the posters in General Chat it seems.

They are not expensive for us to maintain. The islands are entirely self sufficient except regarding defence.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2007/mar/31/falklands.world

The islands are no longer a colony dependent on UK aid, but one of the UK's most dynamic overseas territories, economically self-sufficient in everything except defence - the cost of which amounts to only 0.5% of the total UK defence budget.



"Next time they probably wont lose so avoid humilation as happened in 1806/1807" How about 1982? Anyway we are rather good at fighting wars a long way from home. Thanks to Labour we have plenty of practice. Stick a sub off the coast and the Argentine Navy won't leave port. (As happened in 1982.) This must win troll thread of the day award.

Oh and looking at the thread title don't you know how to spell 'Malvinas'?
 

Sonic67

Banned

82 have signed.

For comparison -
We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to Make Jeremy Clarkson Prime Minister. 49,431 signatures.

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/PMClarkson/


Meanwhile the petition (aimed at TB):
"We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to…
................stand on his head and juggle ice-cream."
If he's not going to resign, the least he can do is provide us with some entertainment.


http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/juggle/

got 5,098 signatories.
 

Miyazaki

Distinguished Member
Send a few trident subs over, that'll shut the fascist argentine bastards up.
 

Sonic67

Banned

la gran siete

Distinguished Member
Not sure of the relevance of my spelling here but never mind:rolleyes:.I am in the rather unusual position of refusing to take sides and when arguing with one side, to some extent I'll use the arguements put over by the other side thus making enemies on both sides. Good innit. Martin Mongiat is particularly indignant with me as he sees me as some kind of traitor. I say to him what i say to others "going to war over two two rocks is not only stupid buy unethical as well- that includes the invasion which precipitated it in the first place" The triumphalism which took place afterwards was not only disgusting but shameful as well. God knows what the international community must think of two so called grown up nations warring over two silly islands.
Anyway as to the respective claims, both sides have a point. Argentinas is based on the notion the Falklands li within its territorial waters joined tothe ,mainland via the continental shelf . It also mantains historical rights in the during its battle for independence from Spain the islands were Spanish and once the mainland was freed the islands became defacto sovereign Argentine territory.A small group of scientists were sent there and a settlement was created,It was only on the 1830s that the British claimed full sovereignty after an American vessel forced the Argentine group out.
The islands were originally discovered by some french People from st Malo who named the Malouines.A small contingent led by Lord Falkland settled on one island whilst the French remained on the other. During the 18th century The spanish moved in, the French left and the British were forced out. A bit of an historical mish mash really
Anyway I maintain war should be avoided in future and good relations developed between the two nations as they once were excellent.It is to remembered that Argentina was virtually British colony anyway. I also think it prudent to negotiate a leaseback agreement, ie Argentina holds the freehold whilst the uk has the freehold for say 100 years at which time the islands become Argentine. Makes sense to me:thumbsup:
 

Sonic67

Banned

Pecker

Distinguished Member
My personal opinion on it.

The islands were uninhabitted until 1764.

They were initially colonozed by the French, but only for 3 years, after which they handed them to the Spanish.

In the 244 years from 1764 to now the islands have been in British control for 174 years and controlled by the Argentinians for less than 3.

They only ever initially 'belonged' to Argentina because in 1812 they were in Spanish hands (though pretty much unused) and the Spanish granted Argentina independence and didn't want them anymore, so they handed them to the Argies as part of the treaty granting independence.

The Argentinians barely set foot on the islands, and never established a proper community. They never even set foot there from 1812 to 1829.

The British got to The Falklands 64 years before any Argentinian had set foot there (despite the not inconsiderable difference in distance), they established the first (and indeed only) self-sufficient settlements in the islands' history, and they've been there for much longer.

In comparison, the original Argentinians (whether indigenous or European) didn't want anything to do with The Falklands, and never did anything with them whilst they were in posession.

Oh, and the vast majority of its human inhabitants want to remain British.

There are plenty of places in the world where the British Empire conquored lands and effectively enslaved people against their will.

The Falkand Islands wasn't one of them.

Having said that, a night out at an Argentine steak house, with a really top bottle of Argie Malbec is a real joy. No Argie-bashing here.

Steve W
 

dBrowne

Prominent Member
Argentinas is based on the notion the Falklands li within its territorial waters joined tothe ,mainland via the continental shelf .

By that reasoning, by virtue of even greater proximity, the Channel Islands could be legitimately claimed by France or a good chunk of the Greek islands by Turkey.
 

Sonic67

Banned
By that reasoning, by virtue of even greater proximity, the Channel Islands could be legitimately claimed by France or a good chunk of the Greek islands by Turkey.

And Spain should hand over Perejil, Ceuta, and Melilla to Morocco and the Canary Islands as well I suppose.
 

eric pisch

Distinguished Member
LGS's cunning attempt to troll here :p may have unwittingly discovered a way for Gordo to keep number 10!

Pay some of the Argies to invade the Falklands then kick them out and win the next Election on a wave of patriotic flag waving!

Worked for Mrs T.

Ok he hasn't got the money to send the fleet out there, and tbh most of them are too busy trying not to be killed in Iraq or Afghanistan but the principle is sound. How about liberating the Isle of Sheppey from hoddies with an army of community support officers.
 

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